Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
I'm currently in the middle of the new book co-authored by Angela Eagle, "The New Serfdom". I heard her speaking on the radio a couple of weeks ago and decided to give it a try. I don't normally do political books from active politicians. I'll wait until I've finished it before coming to any opinions about the book or the topics within it, but it's interesting how many neo-cons have lined up to castigate it in their reviews - mainly online and fact-free, of course, but isn't that where the world gets its opinions these days?

To b'stardise the line from the file "The Usual Suspects"....

The greatest trick far right neo-cons ever carried out was to convince us that there was no such thing as a neo-con and they weren't working to change things their way in any manner they could. So we can all go back to sleep, yes?
 
As a reminder to anyone reading my posts on here...

I always considered myself decidedly right of centre. Ever since my first opportunity, in 1984, I've always voted straight Conservative.

Not last time though, and not again. The reprehensible behaviour of the Republicans in the US, and the disregard for any form of common sense and moderation by the Tories in the UK, mean that they won't get my vote again. I'm not a leftie by any stretch of the imagination, and can't ever see myself as such. If only there was a credible alternative.

So - if anyone reads my posts about the US scene, or stuff happening over here, you know where I'm coming from.
 
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West London Willy said:
It's about having basic human decency, it's not about political views or any opinion over freedom of movement. Taking children from parents and shipping them thousands of miles away with no legal or moral reason to do so is child abuse.

There's a Democrat bill in progress, the Keeping Families Together bill, which is being introduced. It has the support and signature of all 49 Democrat senators. To their eternal shame, not a single Republican senator has signed it. It would, if made law, prevent this from happening again AND address the issue of the currently disparate families. Yet nobody on the right will support it.

I wonder why...
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Children should not be taken away from parents forcibly like this and i agree.

What should be offered is a refugee centre (this brings its own problems, displacement, lost generations etc) or allowed to cross back down south the border (genuine refugees cannot do this).

It's a real shame that the world is not a better place and people can't live in harmony, but generally, i'm anti mass immigration. Obviously, everyone wants to make a better life for themselves but mass immigration never works.

I do believe people should be able to enter for legitimate asylum reasons (i know the cartels are a big thing in mexico) but unfortunately, there is a mixture of economic migrants and whatever else that also want to immigrate.

I don't know if their are immigration issues in the USA (whether too much or little) , but Trump hasn't ever hidden the fact what he is going to do so anyone crossing the border with a family better have a damn good reason.

Everyone else affected in the U.S. having lived their for years is where the real travesty in all this.
 
Some more details are emerging about the content of Trumps executive order...

1. Families will not be immediately separated, but they will be held together in detention indefinitely.
2. Crossing the border is currently a civil violation, but Trump's EO turns it into a criminal violation.
3. Because it is a criminal violation, the parents will be charged criminally. At that point, their children will be forcibly taken from them.
4. The EO includes a provision that families will be expedited through the criminal process. This means that the continuing forced removal of their children will be expedited.

This remains an atrocity. Trump has, under the guise of 'fixing' a human rights violation he caused, just made it infinitely worse.

You'd almost think he was doing it on purpose.....
 
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There's something particularly disgusting about the leader of a nation that is in itself an occupying horde, rousing its rabble against others seeking refuge.

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

Nah, **** that, pull up the drawbridge.
 
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[QUOTE="Stroller, post: 11858091, member:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

[/QUOTE]
How long ago was that offer made
 
Stroller said:
There's something particularly disgusting about the leader of a nation that is in itself an occupying horde, rousing its rabble against others seeking refuge.

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

Nah, **** that, pull up the drawbridge.
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At first, Strolls, I wondered whether you were talking about Greece, Italy, Hungary, Austria, Poland or others in the EU that have called the emergency meeting on Sunday concerning pressures from migration.

Then I recognised the Statue of Liberty quotation from a poem written in 1883.
 
kiwiqpr said:
[QUOTE="Stroller, post: 11858091, member:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”
Click to expand...
How long ago was that offer made[/QUOTE]

As Goldie recognised, it's on the Statue of Liberty. Perhaps Trump will get someone to paint over it.
 
West London Willy said:
Deported after due process, and without taking children from their parents and then shipping them god knows where without even a paper trail.

Biggest difference ever.
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Your point about due process is a fair one. But such is the extent of acceleration of migration, both in America and Europe, more stringent measures are needed. Even liberal EU is considering asylum assessment camps in North Africa.

Trump cannot just allow huge numbers in from their southern border to disappear into the black economy. And it's always been difficult coming into the US. I used to go over a lot on business, mainly to NY. I was always treated by US Customs as a suspicious alien and never took it personally. The only Brit I ever saw waved in with a smile was Joan Collins, three in line ahead of me.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
Your point about due process is a fair one. But such is the extent of acceleration of migration, both in America and Europe, more stringent measures are needed. Even liberal EU is considering asylum assessment camps in North Africa.
Click to expand...

I assume you still think that stealing children from their parents is not a viable or legal option, though.
 
'**** business', Boris Johnson is reported to have said when confronted with concerns expressed by business leaders about the damage that Brexit will bring.

Johnson, Mogg and the rest of their loony gang are ramping up the pressure for a no-deal exit. **** business, **** jobs, **** prosperity, **** the 48% (and many of the 52%). We want our hard Bwexit!
 
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Stroller said:
'**** business', Boris Johnson is reported to have said when confronted with concerns expressed by business leaders about the damage that Brexit will bring.

Johnson, Mogg and the rest of their loony gang are ramping up the pressure for a no-deal exit. **** business, **** jobs, **** prosperity, **** the 48% (and many of the 52%). We want our Bwexit!
Click to expand...

Utter Wnakers
 
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England risk punishment if fans sing pro-Brexit chants during World Cup game


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  • Ben Rumsby, Sports News Correspondent, in Moscow
25 June 2018 • 11:46am Follow Ben Rumsby
Follow the topics within this article
England could be punished if their fans chant pro-Brexit songs during their World Cup game against Belgium, Telegraph Sport can reveal.
Fifa confirmed the Football Association would be sanctioned if Three Lions supporters were found in breach its rules on “displaying insulting or political slogans in any form” and “uttering insulting words or sounds” during Thursday’s match in Kaliningrad.
Asked what would happen if pro-Brexit chants were sung against Belgium, a spokesman said: “Of course, there is a risk of some kind of punishment to the FA.”
Thursday’s fixture is the first between England and Belgium since the UK voted to leave the European Union two years ago, which has been followed by tough negotiations between Westminster and Brussels.
Given the seat of power in the EU is located in the Belgian capital, this week’s game could end up being seen as something of a ‘Brexit derby’.

Pro-Brexit England fans were vocal about their voting intentions at the 2016 European Championship, chanting, “F--- off Europe, we’re all voting out”, during a series of riots in Marseille that almost got them thrown out of the tournament.


After the June 23 ballot had taken place, the song morphed into: “F--- off Europe, we all voted out.”
There has been no evidence of the chant being repeated at the World Cup so far, with England having yet to play another EU nation.
However, England fans who travelled to Russia caused outrage last week after being filmed allegedly singing an anti-Semitic song and throwing Nazi salutes in a pub during their match against Tunisia in Volgograd.
One supporter was banned for attending games for five years on Saturday following a joint investigation by British police and the Football Association, while two other men had their cases adjourned until Tuesday.
The FA said: “The disgraceful conduct of the individuals in this video does not represent the values of the majority of English football fans supporting the team in Russia.”
In March last year, the FA found itself in danger of being punished by Fifa over the sick chanting which marred England’s friendly with Germany.
Fans were heard singing ‘10 German bombers’, as well as allegedly performing Nazi salutes and chanting ‘No surrender’ during the game in Dortmund.
Less than two months later, the FA banned several members of the England Supporters’ Travel Club, its patience with the nation’s fanbase finally snapping.
 
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