Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
rangercol said:
A fantastic orator and obviously a hugely historic thing to be the first black president.
I thought Obama care had received a lot of criticism?
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Not from the people (the ones who weren’t properly covered by personal or company insurance) who benefitted from it. It’s not a particularly efficient system, and has a lot of perverse incentives (its essentially been contracted out to private insurers) but the principle of the thing, after so many previous presidents had failed, was huge. The criticism has in part been around the inefficiency and in part around the principle of affordable health care for all, which feels at odds with the ‘self help’ psyche of many Americans. I think a lot of the knee jerk criticism of the US that you see over here and in Europe is because of a fundamental lack of appreciation that the relationship between citizens and government over there is very different to over here. Personally I rather like the contrast, but it’s taken me over a decade of working over there a lot to really get to grips with it.

But on reflection Obama’s presidency was a failure, because it created the conditions that gave the Democrats a choice between Clinton and Sanders and made the election of Trump possible.

As you know I’m not a fan of either Trump or Brexit, but I am increasingly exasperated by the many people (and to be fair I slip into this mode when I’m not wary) both in public and private, who seem to think that these things happened by themselves, and the way the world has been run over the last few decades, and the last 20 years in particular, has nothing to do with it. It’s pointless and stupid to have a go at everything that Trump does just because he is Trump. Likewise it’s idiotic to oppose and obstruct everything to do with Brexit rather than trying to find a generally acceptable way through it (the ****ing cabinet is the worst example of this).

I think the elite got two big things wrong which has led us to where we are now, but I’ve already written an essay so I will desist now.
 
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should this be on the conspiracy thread

Serious question: Why are “already exhausted” migrants being forced to spend 4-5 more days at sea on a rough journey to Valencia? Zoom in on the route map to see how close Tunisia is. It’s a safe port about an hour away.

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should this be on the conspiracy thread

Serious question: Why are “already exhausted” migrants being forced to spend 4-5 more days at sea on a rough journey to Valencia? Zoom in on the route map to see how close Tunisia is. It’s a safe port about an hour away.

You must log in or register to see images
 
kiwiqpr said:
whats the point if you cant even be bothered to vote
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The point (which you clearly missed) is that he was still an mp, Resigning from his ministerial role doesn’t prevent him voting or abstaining. And the key thing at the moment (when there are so many voting on party lines and not on conscience) is to start the flurry which will hopefully turn into an avalanche. Resigning his post sends a very clear message - a stronger one than a single vote against will make. This is very public and can’t be ignored. Even when refusing to follow the leaders instructions.
 
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