Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Woodyhoopleson said:
I didn't mean it with any leave/remain slant, merely as an acknowledgement that success is measured primarily in financial terms, as opposed to social conditions and that there is no specific relationship between the two. I find that strange.
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I think you miss the relationship between the two. The city of London brings in to the exchequer billions every year which goes to pay for improving the dovish life of British people.
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
This sets it out quite well too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43539774
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Yes, that is a good summary of anti-Semitic behaviour within the Labour party (and one by someone who isn't even in the party), but it seems to me that it's also a good summary of how these have been dealt with, including enquiries and expulsions. I'm not a member, so I have no knowledge of ongoing anti-Semitism from within Labour, but there is enough fuss being made to lead me to believe that there probably is still a problem, and Corbyn needs to do more to root it out. Having said that, I also believe that the current furore is a last desperate throw from Blairites seeking any means to undermine Corbyn. Perhaps they are the ones that need to form the new party, Goldie.
 
Stroller said:
Yes, that is a good summary of anti-Semitic behaviour within the Labour party (and one by someone who isn't even in the party), but it seems to me that it's also a good summary of how these have been dealt with, including enquiries and expulsions. I'm not a member, so I have no knowledge of ongoing anti-Semitism from within Labour, but there is enough fuss being made to lead me to believe that there probably is still a problem, and Corbyn needs to do more to root it out. Having said that, I also believe that the current furore is a last desperate throw from Blairites seeking any means to undermine Corbyn. Perhaps they are the ones that need to form the new party, Goldie.
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The Blairites leave? Thought you might say that, Strolls! But the Blairites haven't caused the problem with Corbyn apparently excusing Russia (he then backtracked) over the poisonings. Nor did they create this divisive antisemitic rhetoric emanating from Momentum. The problem Corbyn has, is that he is so pro Palestine and against Israel, he's antisemitic himself. But of course, he won't admit it, possibly even to himself.

That mural could easily have been commissioned by the Nazis, and I don't buy this weak argument that Jezza didn't look closely enough. He believed what that mural was trying to portray. Wealthy Jewish bankers and businessmen oppressing the people of the world for their own financial gain. Straight out of Mein Kamph... There are some Jewish businessmen and financiers like that, without morals or scruples (Robert Maxwell, Philip Green to name two). And there were those types around in Germany in the 1920' and 30's. But they make up a very small part of the Jewish population
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
The Blairites leave? Thought you might say that, Strolls! But the Blairites haven't caused the problem with Corbyn apparently excusing Russia (he then backtracked) over the poisonings. Nor did they create this divisive antisemitic rhetoric emanating from Momentum. The problem Corbyn has, is that he is so pro Palestine and against Israel, he's antisemitic himself. But of course, he won't admit it, possibly even to himself.

That mural could easily have been commissioned by the Nazis, and I don't buy this weak argument that Jezza didn't look closely enough. He believed what that mural was trying to portray. Wealthy Jewish bankers and businessmen oppressing the people of the world for their own financial gain. Straight out of Mein Kamph... There are some Jewish businessmen and financiers like that, without morals or scruples (Robert Maxwell, Philip Green to name two). And there were those types around in Germany in the 1920' and 30's. But they make up a very small part of the Jewish population
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So perhaps the mural was depicting those few bankers and in no way attempted to judge the masses?
 
Goldhawk-Road said:
The Blairites leave? Thought you might say that, Strolls! But the Blairites haven't caused the problem with Corbyn apparently excusing Russia (he then backtracked) over the poisonings. Nor did they create this divisive antisemitic rhetoric emanating from Momentum. The problem Corbyn has, is that he is so pro Palestine and against Israel, he's antisemitic himself. But of course, he won't admit it, possibly even to himself.

That mural could easily have been commissioned by the Nazis, and I don't buy this weak argument that Jezza didn't look closely enough. He believed what that mural was trying to portray. Wealthy Jewish bankers and businessmen oppressing the people of the world for their own financial gain. Straight out of Mein Kamph... There are some Jewish businessmen and financiers like that, without morals or scruples (Robert Maxwell, Philip Green to name two). And there were those types around in Germany in the 1920' and 30's. But they make up a very small part of the Jewish population
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Yes there are some Jewish businessmen without morals or scruples, but there are also many amoral and unscrupulous bankers/financiers etc. who are not Jewish of course. The anti-Semitism arises when such traits are portrayed as being peculiarly Jewish. The mural was pretty nasty (and I don't wish to defend it), but not all of the figures were caricature Jews.

It seems to me that anti-Israeli sentiment within Labour (mostly legitimate in my eyes) can occasionally spill over into anti-Semitism. Equally, though, such legitimate sentiment can sometimes be wrongly construed as anti-Semitic in itself.
 
Stroller said:
Yes there are some Jewish businessmen without morals or scruples, but there are also many amoral and unscrupulous bankers/financiers etc. who are not Jewish of course. The anti-Semitism arises when such traits are portrayed as being peculiarly Jewish. The mural was pretty nasty (and I don't wish to defend it), but not all of the figures were caricature Jews.

It seems to me that anti-Israeli sentiment within Labour (mostly legitimate in my eyes) can occasionally spill over into anti-Semitism. Equally, though, such legitimate sentiment can sometimes be wrongly construed as anti-Semitic in itself.
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Yes, agree with most of that. I don't think the fact that the artist threw in a couple of gentiles excuses it.

It is anti-Israel spill-over, as you say, but it's more than occasional. In the past, Labour MP's like the late Gerald Kaufman, who was himself Jewish, were extremely critical of Israel, but did not regard all Jewish people as Zionists. There's a growing number on the far-left now that are not willing to make that distinction.
 
I just looked at the mural for the first time. It's clearly a new world order reference, with the pyramid and the eye etc. One could argue that it is an anti capitalist statement
Goldhawk-Road said:
Possibly, very crudely. Unfortunately though, unless that point is made very clear, it simply replicates artwork of the Third Reich.
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Agree. It also obviously satirically depicts the brutal structure of capitalism, a more legitimate target.
 
just had a look at the mural myself, which part of it shows these old men as jewish?

not a very nice picture if its deliberately showing them as jewish if its a propaganda type thing.
 
Woodyhoopleson said:
I just looked at the mural for the first time. It's clearly a new world order reference, with the pyramid and the eye etc. One could argue that it is an anti capitalist statement

Agree. It also obviously satirically depicts the brutal structure of capitalism, a more legitimate target.
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Yes, no doubt capitalism was also a target
 
Don't really understand all this Corbyn hating/slanging propaganda. He's not the prime minister we have that weak old witch in that seat. I get people don't want him in power for whatever reasons just probably as much as they don't want to see the likes of Diane Abbott etc. But hey we already have May and that ridiculous Boris in power. They should be the ones getting scrutinised, not a party that's not in government!!!
 
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