Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
ELLERS said:
The flip side of that is:
A nation was asked if they wanted to leave the EU (simple as) 52% yes 48% no. The vote was given to all that were of legal age and eligible.
sadly, instead of getting on with this democratic choice, some have been hell-bent on trying to derail our democracy that is envied around the world. Simply because they don't like losing.
In all walks of life, there are winners and losers but we try to be as fair we can. As far as I am concerned the vote was to leave, we will leave so get over it.
AS for my house? I would rather lose it then pay lots of money each year and don't have a say in what I can do in my own house.
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They are getting on with it and the vote is certainly accepted by me. What the fools that thought this would be easy is the issue

Telling them to F off is stupid from stupid people who just do not understand a percentage of these people I openly suggest are racist or nationalists. Those days went 40 years ago. What they are trying to rebuild or revert back to is not possible
 
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ELLERS said:
The flip side of that is:
A nation was asked if they wanted to leave the EU (simple as) 52% yes 48% no. The vote was given to all that were of legal age and eligible.
sadly, instead of getting on with this democratic choice, some have been hell-bent on trying to derail our democracy that is envied around the world. Simply because they don't like losing.
In all walks of life, there are winners and losers but we try to be as fair we can. As far as I am concerned the vote was to leave, we will leave so get over it.
AS for my house? I would rather lose it then pay lots of money each year and don't have a say in what I can do in my own house.
Click to expand...

You could move to France lose all your worries and live in peace plus you get to watch our Rangers for £5 and wouldn’t need to stand next to any remoaners
 
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Lawrence Jacoby said:
Telling them to F off is stupid from stupid people who just do not understand a percentage of these people I openly suggest are racist or nationalists. Those days went 40 years ago. What they are trying to rebuild or revert back to is not possible
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That is what they should have said from day one.
As for our history... always grinds with me that people think we (as in Brexit voters)are somehow living in the past colonial days. utter rubbish.
Your argument is of course totally wrong due to the fact that our country wants change and to move forward and the EU is stuck in its own bubble and doesn't want change.
Today I heard this MP talking about how us (UK) has always been seen as an outsider in the EU (No Euro/Schengen other stuff). And if 52% decide to leave with all the 'project fear' then that tells us something.
I have always said that we have never and never will an integral member of the EU. In name only.
You don't get people in the UK saying they are first European then British.
 
Lawrence Jacoby said:
You could move to France lose all your worries and live in peace plus you get to watch our Rangers for £5 and wouldn’t need to stand next to any remoaners
Click to expand...

Thank you for the invite but paying £5 for a dodgy official QPR stream is too much. AS I have said I love going to Europe and do so throughout the year, however there is no place like home.
 
ELLERS said:
The flip side of that is:
A nation was asked if they wanted to leave the EU (simple as) 52% yes 48% no. The vote was given to all that were of legal age and eligible.
sadly, instead of getting on with this democratic choice, some have been hell-bent on trying to derail our democracy that is envied around the world. Simply because they don't like losing.
In all walks of life, there are winners and losers but we try to be as fair we can. As far as I am concerned the vote was to leave, we will leave so get over it.
AS for my house? I would rather lose it then pay lots of money each year and don't have a say in what I can do in my own house.
Click to expand...

'simple as'... lol

I think people liked to believe it would be simple... and to be fair that's how it was portrayed - but the current evidence suggest's it's going to be anything but.

And if you want to get angry at the people not 'getting on' with it - take a look at the government - utter shambles.

Opposition parties are there to oppose... that is one of the checks and balances of any democracy. When a government wins an election the opposition's actual job is to oppose and hold to account. Sadly no-one is representing the 48% of the population - and the calls to 'just get it done' without any direction or plan really is terribly trusting of an administration that is content to let people die on hospital trollies and let councils go bankrupt - they really don't have a good track record in looking after 'the people' do they?

I know you would like people to quietly stop asking questions and just accept that this administration and the right wing who are driving the process know what they are doing, but it's clear that haven't a clue.

But still... it'll be fine... whatever 'it' turns out to be... because if not we're all ****ed.

"I would rather lose it then pay lots of money each year and don't have a say in what I can do in my own house"

That's a whole new nonsense... the whole sovereignty argument has been debunked too many times. We pay in... we have a say - end of. The irony is for the next 2 'transitional' years we will almost certainly be paying in and not having a say... you really couldn't make that one up... except it appears you did.
 
ELLERS said:
The flip side of that is:
A nation was asked if they wanted to leave the EU (simple as) 52% yes 48% no. The vote was given to all that were of legal age and eligible.
sadly, instead of getting on with this democratic choice, some have been hell-bent on trying to derail our democracy that is envied around the world. Simply because they don't like losing.
In all walks of life, there are winners and losers but we try to be as fair we can. As far as I am concerned the vote was to leave, we will leave so get over it.
AS for my house? I would rather lose it then pay lots of money each year and don't have a say in what I can do in my own house.
Click to expand...
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Just on a further note about 'paying and having a say'

The EU published its negotiating position on Britain’s period of transition, from 30 March 2019 until 31 December 2020. Britain would have to abide by the rules of the single market, customs union, free movement and decisions of the European Court of Justice, as well as new EU laws. Britain would have no representatives at the table. Jacob Rees-Mogg, the chairman of the European Research Group among the Conservatives, said: ‘This will be the first time since the Norman Conquest the UK has accepted rules imposed by a foreign power without having any say over them.’

So clearly even JRM agrees that we did have a say, it was just more convenient to say we didn't - or maybe it was another mistake?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/
 
Christ on a bike! Still the same old tosh being trotted out on here I see.

We all go round and round in ****ing circles saying the same things we were saying a year ago.

I think there are some sound arguments on both sides to be honest, but the referendum vote was the biggest vote in our history which cannot be ignored imo. I knew voting to leave meant leaving the single market and the customs union and I believe that most other leave voters knew this too. It may well be tough for a while but I took that into account when I voted.
I also believe that, with 85% of trading options outside the EU we have a huge opportunity to make a success of Brexit whilst again being an independent Nation.
Trying to base an argument around an economical forecast stretching years and years into the future is nothing short of ridiculous, whilst the Tories are weakening the Government's position with all their in-fighting. However, the likes of Anna ****ing Soubery can **** right off. Her, Justine ****ing Greening and Nicky ****ing Morgan have an axe to grind with May and are trying everything they can to **** things up for her and the Government, which in turn will **** things up for the Country by weakening our negotiating position.

We have a few anti-democratic nobodies like Lord Adonis trying their hardest to make us vote again or stop the process altogether.

The thing that imo is hardening public opinion towards Brexit is the EU continuing to threaten the UK. We don't like that. It happened during the referendum campaign when remainers threatened everything, including world war three if we voted leave. Look what happened! The EU are now threatening all sorts of sanctions if we break their rules during a transition period. All the while trying their hardest to lure bankers away from the City of London. All we've seen from the EU is aggression and threats whilst David Davis has at least tried to be conciliatory, (with one hand tied behind his back due to the Government's inability to take a hard stance towards our exit from the EU). The EU will continue to prolong all talks with ridiculous threats and demands to try to make us take any deal rather than leaving with no deal. Remainers in Parliament, relying on those ridiculous long-range economic forecasts are trying to force us to remain in the customs union, single market and, in effect the EU itself.

The Government is being forced into a corner and must prepare to leave with no deal. They must make it clear that they have planned for this and play hardball. The EU don't want a "no deal" outcome any more than we do. It's time for us to play them at their own game and "man-up". It's also time for the bitter, feuding Tories to put their Country first (I don't expect that from the opposition). I won't hold my breath.
 
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Enough of this frippery.

The big issue is discrimination against Freemasons. They have protested about the revelation that there are two ‘lodges’ at the Houses of Parliament, one for politicians and one for political journalists. But their spokesman claims that no MPs or political journalists are members. Apparently. He claimed that the special handshake wasn’t secret, but declined to demonstrate it as he’d ‘been asked not to’.

I know nothing about freemasonry and wouldn’t know any of the UKs 200,000 male and 4,500 female masons unless they chose to tell me that they were members. Therefore I struggle to see how they are discriminated against if we don’t even know who they are for the most part. Nothing against them, people like joining clubs and an element of ritual is exciting for some. Plus they give to charity. And as a ‘fraternity’ you would expect them to ‘look after’ each other, wouldn’t you? What’s the point otherwise?

Of course some non masons give the institution (?) stick and accuse it of all sorts of things. Latest has been the out going chairman of the Police Federation saying that police lodges held back the promotion of women land ethnic minority officers. He needs to prove it I suppose.
 
The Bank of England is warning that interest rates will go up imminently and more sharply than many may expect. This is because, contrary to their prediction 3 months ago, the economy is growing strongly.

So the B of E are wrong on a 3 month forecast, for being too pessimistic, yet we are expected to believe a similarly pessimistic forecast prepared by civil servants led by key Remainer, Phillip Hammond, which predicts doom over 15 years. What a steaming pile of ****.
 
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sb_73 said:
Enough of this frippery.

The big issue is discrimination against Freemasons. They have protested about the revelation that there are two ‘lodges’ at the Houses of Parliament, one for politicians and one for political journalists. But their spokesman claims that no MPs or political journalists are members. Apparently. He claimed that the special handshake wasn’t secret, but declined to demonstrate it as he’d ‘been asked not to’.

I know nothing about freemasonry and wouldn’t know any of the UKs 200,000 male and 4,500 female masons unless they chose to tell me that they were members. Therefore I struggle to see how they are discriminated against if we don’t even know who they are for the most part. Nothing against them, people like joining clubs and an element of ritual is exciting for some. Plus they give to charity. And as a ‘fraternity’ you would expect them to ‘look after’ each other, wouldn’t you? What’s the point otherwise?

Of course some non masons give the institution (?) stick and accuse it of all sorts of things. Latest has been the out going chairman of the Police Federation saying that police lodges held back the promotion of women land ethnic minority officers. He needs to prove it I suppose.
Click to expand...

You'll never get members to talk. They're governed by the code of omerta.
 
sb_73 said:
100 people are asked if it would be good to confiscate Ellers’ house, sell it, and distribute the proceeds to the poor. 25 don’t bother to answer, 38 say yes, let’s do it, 37 say no, let’s not.

As it is clearly the WILL OF THE PEOPLE Ellers is now homeless. Anybody who thinks this is unfair and tries to speak up about it is told to shut up and not challenge the WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

The will of the people argument is based on Jean Jacques Rousseau’s well meant theory of the ‘general will’, which was meant to be about the common good but was easily twisted to justify tyranny, like the reign of terror in the French Revolution. On a tiny scale your desire to shut up opposition in the name of the ‘people’ demonstrates the point. The WILL OF THE PEOPLE is bullshit. The reason we have representative democracy is to mediate between different interests for the common good as best we can, rather than hide behind ****ing slogans like THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.
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What if one of the 38 finds out that the house is being sold for too little and changes their mind?
 
GoldhawkRoad said:
You'll never get members to talk. They're governed by the code of omerta.
Click to expand...
Are you a member Goldie? Someone on here is, I’ve exchanged messages with them, can’t remember who. I genuinely have no problem with it, not for me, but that’s besides the point. I’m sure that there have been a few people who have granted ‘favours’ to members over non members, but I’m also sure you could say the same about any membership organisation.

My Dad was invited to see if he wanted to join some time in the seventies. He was a big rugby and cricket club man, and always open to a bit of off the books business in pubs, would have thought it would have been right up his street. He declined to apply, said it gave him the creeps.
 
sb_73 said:
Are you a member Goldie? Someone on here is, I’ve exchanged messages with them, can’t remember who. I genuinely have no problem with it, not for me, but that’s besides the point. I’m sure that there have been a few people who have granted ‘favours’ to members over non members, but I’m also sure you could say the same about any membership organisation.

My Dad was invited to see if he wanted to join some time in the seventies. He was a big rugby and cricket club man, and always open to a bit of off the books business in pubs, would have thought it would have been right up his street. He declined to apply, said it gave him the creeps.
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No, never been a member and never will be, Stan. Like your Dad, I find it creepy. I'm suspicious of secret societies because they're open to abuse. My reference to omerta was intended to be ironic, being the code of silence employed by the mafia. I'm sure there are decent, honest benevolent freemasons, but the clandestine aspects will attract the wrong sort too which, if police are members, could subvert the law.
 
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