Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Lawrence Jacoby]

Agree. My mate was an avid 'remainer' but on Saturday he was telling me how he thinks long term it will probably be a good thing. I was only saying yesterday that all the hype and doom is disappearing and people will get on with it.
Yes, you will still get people like the treacherous Blair kicking up a fuss but people just want to move on.

I think you are 100% correct here. Change will be good for the UK and i am sure its a revolution in disguise.

If however the vote came again which it won't then i couldn't see the vote being that close.

Europe will adjust also and retain the massive wealth ... they are far from finished as some suggested

 

[Stroller]

Agree. My mate was an avid 'remainer' but on Saturday he was telling me how he thinks long term it will probably be a good thing. I was only saying yesterday that all the hype and doom is disappearing and people will get on with it.
Yes, you will still get people like the treacherous Blair kicking up a fuss but people just want to move on.

Farage is now saying that he is warming to the idea of a second referendum - as proposed by Blair - in order to put paid to all the 'whinging and whining'.

You must agree with this surely, Ellers?

 

[ELLERS]

I think you are 100% correct here. Change will be good for the UK and i am sure its a revolution in disguise.

If however the vote came again which it won't then i couldn't see the vote being that close.

Europe will adjust also and retain the massive wealth ... they are far from finished as some suggested

There is a video doing the rounds with Farage saying we should have a second referendum to silence the remoaners once and for all. He thinks the leave vote will be even bigger now.
TBH many people were upset in the way some EU people were talking about the UK after Brexit.
For me, I can't wait to get away from that failing organization. They have some big problems/issues that they will have to deal with. The Euro will go bust in a few years and I see the whole thing coming down.

 

[ELLERS]

Farage is now saying that he is warming to the idea of a second referendum - as proposed by Blair - in order to put paid to all the 'whinging and whining'.

You must agree with this surely, Ellers?

No I don't. We had the vote, it's over and we move on.

 

[Stroller]

No I don't. We had the vote, it's over and we move on.

Democracy is a process, not an event.

 

[ELLERS]

Democracy is a process, not an event.

Exactly, we had a democratic vote, the vote was 52-48% to leave and we are leaving. That's democracy. If people don't like the way we do things go and live in North Korea and discuss democracy.
Nothing to see here anymore Stroller.

 

[Stroller]

Exactly, we had a democratic vote, the vote was 52-48% to leave and we are leaving. That's democracy. If people don't like the way we do things go and live in North Korea and discuss democracy.
Nothing to see here anymore Stroller.

“If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”.

David Davis.

 

[seagullhoop]

No I don't. We had the vote, it's over and we move on.

Right.... so to take that to it's logical conclusion we hold no more elections? Ever?

You surely must see this is a non sequiter.

Given the constant refrain of an 'anti-democratic' EU by the Leave campaign it might appear to some bordering on the hypocritical to treat a single 'advisory' referendum as something that could not be revisited with the benefit of reflection.

Offering the electorate the opportunity for people to change their minds, especially since we have had the opportunity to view at close hand how this government has approached the Brexit process, seems eminently reasonable.

I would imagine anyone who truly believes in democracy would be entirely in favour.

 

[ELLERS]

“If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”.

David Davis.

The only people that want it are 'remoaners' that cannot accept the result. Even if we had another referendum and the result was the same, people would still moan.
We pride ourselves on a good democracy. I didn't want Blair in but I accepted it. If Comrade Corbyn gets in I will accept it, even though I would never want him near the job. Funnily I was reading about this recently and how we are the envy of many countries around the World regarding democracy.
We can't keep having votes just because some didn't like the results. That's how it works and you better get over it because it won't be changing. Even the 'remainer' May has accepted it and moved on.

https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/why-im-a-remainer-who-accepts-the-eu-referendum-result-d198dbc99c2

 

[ELLERS]

Right.... so to take that to it's logical conclusion we hold no more elections? Ever?

You surely must see this is a non sequiter.

Given the constant refrain of an 'anti-democratic' EU by the Leave campaign it might appear to some bordering on the hypocritical to treat a single 'advisory' referendum as something that could not be revisited with the benefit of reflection.

Offering the electorate the opportunity for people to change their minds, especially since we have had the opportunity to view at close hand how this government has approached the Brexit process, seems eminently reasonable.

I would imagine anyone who truly believes in democracy would be entirely in favour.

Why would we need to change our minds? Like you all keep saying "we haven't left yet'.

 

[ELLERS]

Offering the electorate the opportunity for people to change their minds, especially since we have had the opportunity to view at close hand how this government has approached the Brexit process, seems eminently reasonable.

eer that's wrong. Because you believe the government is making a mess of things regarding the process doesn't mean that the result was wrong.
seriously chaps you really need to move on or at least come up with something debatable.

 

[Stroller]

The only people that want it are 'remoaners' that cannot accept the result. Even if we had another referendum and the result was the same, people would still moan.
We pride ourselves on a good democracy. I didn't want Blair in but I accepted it. If Comrade Corbyn gets in I will accept it, even though I would never want him near the job. Funnily I was reading about this recently and how we are the envy of many countries around the World regarding democracy.
We can't keep having votes just because some didn't like the results. That's how it works and you better get over it because it won't be changing. Even the 'remainer' May has accepted it and moved on.

https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/why-im-a-remainer-who-accepts-the-eu-referendum-result-d198dbc99c2

eer that's wrong. Because you believe the government is making a mess of things of the process doesn't mean that the result was wrong.
seriously chaps you really need to move on or at least come up with something debatable.

As Seagull says, a second referendum would be the truly democratic path. When we voted in 2016, no one knew what Brexit would actually mean in practice. We should have the chance to have another say once it is clear what kind of deal this hapless government is going to come up with. If at that point, the electorate says, 'well we're going to hell in a handcart, but let's go for it anyway', or 'never mind a trade deal with the EU, we're taking back control of our own destiny', so be it. What's wrong with finding out what the will of the people is when they know much more clearly what it is they are voting for? What's to be scared of?

I see Arron Banks now also says a second referendum is 'the only option'. Bring it on.

 

[Steelmonkey]

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[ELLERS]

When we voted in 2016, no one knew what Brexit would actually mean in practice.

That is the typical 'remoaner' response. You forgot to mention that we were all 'thick racists' as well. We knew exactly what we were voting for and it was clearly written on the ballot paper. Remain or Leave the EU, it was quite simple. You don't need to be academic to work it out.

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Sadly after people then started moving the margins adding bits into the debate to justify their cause. You know..."We wasn't told that at the time".
AS I say keep remoaning because it ain't gonna do you any good. The wheels are in motion and a date is set. It cannot happen quick enough.

 

[Steelmonkey]

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[ELLERS]

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I got bored after the first 30 secs. Another remoaner that cannot accept the result. surely you have something different than the usual carp? I need to be engaged not lectured to. Owen Jones article was more interesting.

 

[seagullhoop]

eer that's wrong. Because you believe the government is making a mess of things regarding the process doesn't mean that the result was wrong.
seriously chaps you really need to move on or at least come up with something debatable.

...or you could respond to the point... avoiding the debate isn't on my agenda.

Being anti-democratic isn't very British. I thought everything being more 'British' was the whole point of leaving?

Why would we need to change our minds? Like you all keep saying "we haven't left yet'.

It's almost like you're being deliberately obtuse.

Do you really not understand the point being made?

The chance to reassess what Brexit actually means in practice seems eminently reasonable... people know more about the process and the potential repercussions than perhaps they did at the time given the misrepresentations that are acknowledged by many (not yourself clearly) to have swayed the vote... most notably membership of the single market, immigration and the funding of the NHS. Add to that the potential issues around the financial, pharmaceutical and aviation industries, we all deserve to have a serious and reasoned debate about what people actually want, rather than the nebulous 'taking back control' and 'sovereignty' which have been seen to mean very different things to different people.

'Brexit means Brexit' might be good enough for you and yours - personally I like to take my political decisions with a little more substance.

As for the ballot paper - it simply illustrates the gross negligence of the Cameron Government to offer a binary option to possibly the most important question of our lifetimes.

 

[kiwiqpr]

As Seagull says, a second referendum would be the truly democratic path. When we voted in 2016, no one knew what Brexit would actually mean in practice. We should have the chance to have another say once it is clear what kind of deal this hapless government is going to come up with. If at that point, the electorate says, 'well we're going to hell in a handcart, but let's go for it anyway', or 'never mind a trade deal with the EU, we're taking back control of our own destiny', so be it. What's wrong with finding out what the will of the people is when they know much more clearly what it is they are voting for? What's to be scared of?

I see Arron Banks now also says a second referendum is 'the only option'. Bring it on.

The third or fourth referendum would be the really true democratic path
Why stop there

 

[Steelmonkey]

The third or fourth referendum would be the really true democratic path
Why stop there

We could have one every five years, and if we don't like the result of the previous one, change all the personnel that make all the decisions. Then, when they've lied to us for five or ten years, change them all over again...it's the will of the people remember, unless.the people change their.minds.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

I am a 100% remain voter but i accept the vote 100%

We haven't left yet and the full consequence won't be known by anyone

I have made comments to actual events I 100% know about my clients in the financial sectors getting ready to possibly leave the UK ... if that happens then many jobs will be lost forever. Business and more importantly British Business is not stupid and work for themselves first not governments or ideals.

There is also no doubt in my mind that the UK is a marketplace that outsiders can not do without so confident that business will find a way.

I do not however side with Leave voters who say tell them to F Off we are paying nought etc or that the EU will fall. They won't and isolation from the EU is still an unknown.