Off Topic The Politics Thread

[GoldhawkRoad]

What do you think of the DUPs stance on this?

I have some sympathy. If the customs border divides them from the UK, they see it as a major step away from the UK, and a major advance of Sinn Fein's drive for a United Ireland. There does not see to be a consensus in favour of uniting with the Republic of Ireland at the moment.

Does the DUP's confidence and supply agreement make a difference now? I'm not sure it does. Call me naive, but even without it, I can't see any British government that cares about its reputation and place in history, forcing a customs border split on N. Ireland.

I don't understand why Theresa May went to Brussels today, without the DUP's authority. She'll have to explain. This seems to the major sticking point now, so important talks with the DUP and ROI to come

 

[sb_73]

I have some sympathy. If the customs border divides them from the UK, they see it as a major step away from the UK, and a major advance of Sinn Fein's drive for a United Ireland. There does not see to be a consensus in favour of uniting with the Republic of Ireland at the moment.

Does the DUP's confidence and supply agreement make a difference now? I'm not sure it does. Call me naive, but even without it, I can't see any British government that cares about its reputation and place in history, forcing a customs border split on N. Ireland.

I don't understand why Theresa May went to Brussels today, without the DUP's authority. She'll have to explain. This seems to the major sticking point now, so important talks with the DUP and ROI to come

But the DUP don’t represent anyone but themselves - certainly not the majority of the Northern Irish, who voted remain. The DUP aren’t even in government there, their sole influence comes through the seedy deal the the Tories did with them. The idea that May, or any prime minister, can’t speak without the ‘authority’ of the DUP having given their permission is truly nightmarish.

 

[Ciarrai_Abu]

If special arrangements can be made for Northern Ireland, they can be made for London can't they? But no need to bother if the government were to do what the majority wants and make a deal that keeps all of us in the Single Market..

Spot on.

 

[rangercol]

But the DUP don’t represent anyone but themselves - certainly not the majority of the Northern Irish, who voted remain. The DUP aren’t even in government there, their sole influence comes through the seedy deal the the Tories did with them. The idea that May, or any prime minister, can’t speak without the ‘authority’ of the DUP having given their permission is truly nightmarish.

Yeah I think I agree with that.

It's such a ****ing mess and basically down to the Tories calling an election that they didn't need to call. Twats!

I don't profess to knowing all the ins and outs of the NI issues, but I can see why the DUP are worried about the North's membership of the UK being weakened.
However, they are such a dodgy bunch and the whole thing is so bloody complicated. Without them though, I think there would have been a deal today and the border would have been given special status by the Government and rightly so imo.

 

[ELLERS]

At least May hasn't sold us out completely

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

But the DUP don’t represent anyone but themselves - certainly not the majority of the Northern Irish, who voted remain. The DUP aren’t even in government there, their sole influence comes through the seedy deal the the Tories did with them. The idea that May, or any prime minister, can’t speak without the ‘authority’ of the DUP having given their permission is truly nightmarish.

If the UK government is going to make such a far reaching change within the UK, it has to carry everyone with it

 

[sb_73]

Yeah I think I agree with that.

It's such a ****ing mess and basically down to the Tories calling an election that they didn't need to call. Twats!

I don't profess to knowing all the ins and outs of the NI issues, but I can see why the DUP are worried about the North's membership of the UK being weakened.
However, they are such a dodgy bunch and the whole thing is so bloody complicated. Without them though, I think there would have been a deal today and the border would have been given special status by the Government and rightly so imo.

I think this will get sorted Col, because it has to be. We’ll bung them some more money, probably. It’s ridiculous that these people can hold everything up. I agree NI is complicated, and because of the history of violence the stakes are high, but there is something fundamentally wrong with this. If on the one hand the sizeable minority who voted remain are told to suck it up and follow the slim majority will (and I know some of us have done this with poor grace) then it is perverse for a tiny minority to be allowed to scupper things.

 

[sb_73]

If the UK government is going to make such a far reaching change within the UK, it has to carry everyone with it

Impossible. Is it a bigger change than Brexit itself? That has far from a dominant majority, let alone ‘everyone’ as far as I can see it.

The Tories will throw them some more money and some promises about no unification referenda for decades, and then we’ll be allowed to get on with it. Hopefully.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

That Tory charge card must be maxed out by now.

 

[kiwiqpr]

welcome to mmp and all it brings
the government of kiwiland was decided by a party with 7 mps based on whether the tories or labour offered the most ministerial positions

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Impossible. Is it a bigger change than Brexit itself? That has far from a dominant majority, let alone ‘everyone’ as far as I can see it.

The Tories will throw them some more money and some promises about no unification referenda for decades, and then we’ll be allowed to get on with it. Hopefully.

By everyone, I meant both sides of the NI divide, sorry, badly expressed. So as I can see, May did have DUP authority to make the offer to Junckers today but something spooked them at the last minute. She sounds confident that the position can be straightened out, because she's agreed to back Weds

 

[Stroller]

The obvious solution is to come to a Brexit deal which keeps the UK in the Single Market, but May ruled that out from the start and then sought to bolster this position by calling a General Election and gaining an increased Tory majority. She failed, and this has led to the DUP being able to dictate on the border issue, which is totally unacceptable. We need either another General Election (which is actually now looking like it could happen quite soon) or another Brexit referendum, including an option for leaving the EU but remaining in the Single Market.

 

[rangercol]

I think this will get sorted Col, because it has to be. We’ll bung them some more money, probably. It’s ridiculous that these people can hold everything up. I agree NI is complicated, and because of the history of violence the stakes are high, but there is something fundamentally wrong with this. If on the one hand the sizeable minority who voted remain are told to suck it up and follow the slim majority will (and I know some of us have done this with poor grace) then it is perverse for a tiny minority to be allowed to scupper things.

That's one of the curses of coalition.

 

[sb_73]

The obvious solution is to come to a Brexit deal which keeps the UK in the Single Market, but May ruled that out from the start and then sought to bolster this position by calling a General Election and gaining an increased Tory majority. She failed, and this has led to the DUP being able to dictate on the border issue, which is totally unacceptable. We need either another General Election (which is actually now looking like it could happen quite soon) or another Brexit referendum, including an option for leaving the EU but remaining in the Single Market.

You can’t have a referendum with more than two options, unlikely you would get a clear majority. You could have one which ‘respects’ the original referendum which gives the choice between staying in the single market and ‘telling them to **** off’, to use the vernacular, but even that would leave out the option of the type of deal we are supposedly looking for. I don’t think it would work, and we’re timed out on this stuff anyway.

That's one of the curses of coalition.

Not being a deliberate irritant, but this isn’t a coalition. If it was the DUP would have ministers, and would be signed up to government policy - what screwed up the Lib Dem’s over tuition fees. What we have is a back room deal where a bunch of throwbacks provide a few votes to the Tories when they feel like it in return for money. The DUP have already voted against the government on tuition fees and public sector pay, so they are unreliable recipients of bribes too.

Sorry, I’m overplaying this, but I find it ****ing annoying, just when we seem to take a step forwards we shoot ourselves in the foot.

 

[kiwiqpr]

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[Lawrence Jacoby]

£400 a week is the level of instrument of U.K. poverty I saw on C4 news ... what?

My annual rates are €403 a year and average rentals prices in average towns on the Med €390 a mois

More comparisons I ‘m experiencing
So much is wrong and we have tossers in power who do nothing

Also good that people are talking about the geographical divides in the U.K.

Can’t see anything done about the massive adjustment required

 

[Stroller]

.

 

[Stroller]

You can’t have a referendum with more than two options, unlikely you would get a clear majority. You could have one which ‘respects’ the original referendum which gives the choice between staying in the single market and ‘telling them to **** off’, to use the vernacular, but even that would leave out the option of the type of deal we are supposedly looking for. I don’t think it would work, and we’re timed out on this stuff anyway.

We needn't be timed out, I'm sure the EU would allow an extension to the Article 50 deadlines. Why not a second referendum which has four options?

Option 1 - No deal (tell 'em to **** off).
Option 2 - A trade deal, but outside the Single Market.
Option 3 - A trade deal inside the Single Market
Option 4 - No Brexit

It could work if it was done on a transferable vote basis.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

You can’t have a referendum with more than two options, unlikely you would get a clear majority. You could have one which ‘respects’ the original referendum which gives the choice between staying in the single market and ‘telling them to **** off’, to use the vernacular, but even that would leave out the option of the type of deal we are supposedly looking for. I don’t think it would work, and we’re timed out on this stuff anyway.

Not being a deliberate irritant, but this isn’t a coalition. If it was the DUP would have ministers, and would be signed up to government policy - what screwed up the Lib Dem’s over tuition fees. What we have is a back room deal where a bunch of throwbacks provide a few votes to the Tories when they feel like it in return for money. The DUP have already voted against the government on tuition fees and public sector pay, so they are unreliable recipients of bribes too.

Sorry, I’m overplaying this, but I find it ****ing annoying, just when we seem to
take a step forwards we shoot ourselves in the foot.

You’re not imo ... it’s gone to pot ... have I mentioned that before?

Massive rows with my family connections as three of my partners family have all cashed in and moved south to Sussex ... it’s wrong
3 millionaires with now 7 houses between them ... and they think they are being clever

Disgraceful I am off home Wed **** them
Hope the interest rates rise and bites them all and their tentants ruin their investments

Fed up with no change
We must be due a war

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

We needn't be timed out, I'm sure the EU would allow an extension to the Article 50 deadlines. Why not a second referendum which has four options?

Option 1 - No deal (tell 'em to **** off).
Option 2 - A trade deal, but outside the Single Market.
Option 3 - A trade deal inside the Single Market
Option 4 - No Brexit

It could work if it was done on a transferable vote basis.

4 please
Pretty sure it’s being orchestrated that way
It just has to be seen that way