Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
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Viral Animal Sentience Fake News Story Seen By 2 Million People
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This week a number of stories claiming the Tories had voted that animals are not sentient beings went mega-viral. An article on the Independent website – shared thousands of times on social media – reported “The Tories have rejected all scientists and voted that animals don’t feel pain”. The Evening Standard claimed they “just voted that animals cannot feel pain or emotions”. The Indy, which has truly become one of the most downmarket trash clickbait websites around, even named and shamed the Tory MPs “who voted legislation on animals feeling pain and emotion”. These attacks were tweeted out by celebrities like Ben Fogle and Sue Perkins, politicians including Caroline Lucas and failed LibDem MP Sarah Olney, and petitions were signed by hundreds of thousands of unwitting animal lovers. The stats are huge:
  • Analysis shows 2 million people have seen articles and tweets about the Tories voting against animal sentience
  • 155,157 signed a Change.org petition repeating the claim
  • 263,476 signed another petition on 38 Degrees
  • 43,081 signed a third petition on ThePetitionSite
  • Nearly 30,000 have signed smaller petitions (that’s almost 500,000 overall)
  • Sue Perkins shared it with her 1 million followers
  • Rachel Riley shared it with her 510,000 followers
  • Ben Fogle shared it with his 336,000 followers
  • Caroline Lucas shared it with her 276,000 followers
  • The RSPCA tweeted it out to their 248,000 followers
Just one problem. It is fake news…
During last Wednesday’s debate, Tory MPs repeatedly explained that the government already recognised animal sentience and that the amendment was flawed. Read it here in Hansard – Tory MP after Tory MP stood up and agreed that animals are sentient. No MPs argued against animal sentience. It is just not true to say, as the Indy did, that “The Tories have rejected all scientists and voted that animals don’t feel pain”. Anyone who has seen the Environment Secretary with his Bichon Frise Snowy, or indeed the hedgehog above, knows these viral articles are fake news. This made up story, circulated by the Tories’ opponents for solely cynical reasons, is cutting through to animal lovers who think they can trust things they believe on the Independent website. This morning Michael Gove categorically committed the government to animal sentience once and for all. He couldn’t be clearer:
“This government will ensure that any necessary changes required to UK law are made in a rigorous and comprehensive way to ensure animal sentience is recognised after we leave the EU.”
Will that go as viral as the fake news BS that hoodwinked thousands in the last week?
 
sb_73 said:
In all of its parts, the EU employs about 46,000 people, half of them in the Commission. It sounds a lot, but they do cover 500 million people. Birmingham City Council employs over 33,000 for a population of 1.1m.

Undoubtedly some of them are very well paid, especially the Commissioners and senior ECJ judges. But none of them are as well paid as quite a few U.K. senior civil servants, who also enjoy very generous pensions. If you don’t feel that you get any direct or indirect benefit from the £115 per year of your income tax (if you are an average level U.K. tax payer) that goes to the EU, then anything spent on the EU infrastructure is a waste of money. As most of the benefit is indirect and clouded by years of fake press stories about bananas and gravy trains, and Tory MPs whining, I’m not surprised a lot of people don’t see the value and think it’s all a rip off.

The salaries and benefits of the EU civil servants are set and have to be signed off by the Council of Ministers and European Parliament. They are designed to sit within the span of public sector pay across the EU. If they earned a lot more than the average then too many good people would leave their national systems, a lot less and the EU wouldn’t be able to recruit. Compared to the senior levels of the private sector all of these senior public servants do rather poorly financially, though I suppose they have a bit more job security (unless in the case of the EU, where British civil servants will be unemployed in April 2019).

I’m sure the citizens of Europe could get better value from the EU, it’s a pretty flawed organisation, but so are all large bureaucracies public or private, and a brutal fact is that if you want intelligent people to work hard for you, whether it’s public or private sector, you have to reward them.

Sorry Stainsey, but if you cast your vote on this alone it’s too late for me to change your mind now.
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Thanks for your answer, something to think about but of course you’re coming from the ‘stay’ camp...I’m sure there are others from the ‘leave’ camp who will say different (not saying which side is right or wrong).

No it wasn’t on that alone BUT probably one of the main reasons.....
 
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Staines R's said:
Thanks for your answer, something to think about but of course you’re coming from the ‘stay’ camp...I’m sure there are others from the ‘leave’ camp who will say different (not saying which side is right or wrong).

No it wasn’t on that alone BUT probably one of the main reasons.....
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You can take it from me that I’m right mate.

Right at the beginning of this thread (I think) I said that I think that the EU needs big reform, Juncker is the worst possible advert for it, and though my preference would be for the U.K. to stay in and drive the reform we have always been a poor participant and it might be best if we just left them to it, rather than holding the whole thing back. I don’t think I really understood the consequences then, and no one could have foreseen the rolling fiasco that is the Tory implementation.
 
sb_73 said:
You can take it from me that I’m right mate.

Right at the beginning of this thread (I think) I said that I think that the EU needs big reform, Juncker is the worst possible advert for it, and though my preference would be for the U.K. to stay in and drive the reform we have always been a poor participant and it might be best if we just left them to it, rather than holding the whole thing back. I don’t think I really understood the consequences then, and no one could have foreseen the rolling fiasco that is the Tory implementation.
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I don’t think my sanity could take going back to the beginning of this thread mate :)
 
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sb_73 said:
You can take it from me that I’m right mate.

Right at the beginning of this thread (I think) I said that I think that the EU needs big reform, Juncker is the worst possible advert for it, and though my preference would be for the U.K. to stay in and drive the reform we have always been a poor participant and it might be best if we just left them to it, rather than holding the whole thing back.
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:emoticon-0148-yes:
 
Staines R's said:
Has any definitive figure been put on the amount we put in to the amount we take out ?
Probably very hard to equate but is an honest question nonetheless.
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None of us cared or knew before the vote that has to be said since then money figures were introduced to whip up a frenzy of protest imo. No doubt the EU system and most countries in the west could do with reform. The simple question of money in money out I would never believe was that simple before or now ... no one knows I am guessing but someone push a figure on the side of a bus and pointed that to the NHS and the rest is history.

I accept it of course but I have never been able to understand the post vote events and I think both sides of the vote are still guessing

I honestly still think the real plan for all of this has not revealed itself but we ave a divided nation
 
Lawrence Jacoby said:
None of us cared or knew before the vote that has to be said since then money figures were introduced to whip up a frenzy of protest imo. No doubt the EU system and most countries in the west could do with reform. The simple question of money in money out I would never believe was that simple before or now ... no one knows I am guessing but someone push a figure on the side of a bus and pointed that to the NHS and the rest is history.

I accept it of course but I have never been able to understand the post vote events and I think both sides of the vote are still guessing

I honestly still think the real plan for all of this has not revealed itself but we ave a divided nation
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We're all doomed............doomed I tell yer!
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42121442

Read about this issue some time ago. Apparently something that the UK and EU have already agreed on (though how exactly is hard to understand when they formally have not discussed trade as yet), but other countries are not happy about it. WTO rules aren't going to be problem free with Brexit.
 
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QPR Oslo said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42121442

Read about this issue some time ago. Apparently something that the UK and EU have already agreed on (though how exactly is hard to understand when they formally have not discussed trade as yet), but other countries are not happy about it. WTO rules aren't going to be problem free with Brexit.
Click to expand...
I saw this. The Aussies and Kiwis pissed off because of the way we propose to allocate quotas, which means NZ won’t be able to send us limitless amounts of cheap lamb (which would destroy the British sheep farming industry, as a Tory MP has pointed out) and Australia won’t be able to send of loads of Ugg boots (can’t think of anything else they export).

Comments from the British judge on the ECJ have been leaked. Only one of the British ministers involved in Brexit actually understands how complicated it is, according to this bloke. And it’s not David Davies, who flew to Paris to talk to the foreign minister of France, and forgot to mention Brexit during the meeting.
 
sb_73 said:
I saw this. The Aussies and Kiwis pissed off because of the way we propose to allocate quotas, which means NZ won’t be able to send us limitless amounts of cheap lamb (which would destroy the British sheep farming industry, as a Tory MP has pointed out) and Australia won’t be able to send of loads of Ugg boots (can’t think of anything else they export).

Comments from the British judge on the ECJ have been leaked. Only one of the British ministers involved in Brexit actually understands how complicated it is, according to this bloke. And it’s not David Davies, who flew to Paris to talk to the foreign minister of France, and forgot to mention Brexit during the meeting.
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"Ugg" boots are American,
 
sb_73 said:
I saw this. The Aussies and Kiwis pissed off because of the way we propose to allocate quotas, which means NZ won’t be able to send us limitless amounts of cheap lamb (which would destroy the British sheep farming industry, as a Tory MP has pointed out) and Australia won’t be able to send of loads of Ugg boots (can’t think of anything else they export).

Comments from the British judge on the ECJ have been leaked. Only one of the British ministers involved in Brexit actually understands how complicated it is, according to this bloke. And it’s not David Davies, who flew to Paris to talk to the foreign minister of France, and forgot to mention Brexit during the meeting.
Click to expand...

How can you forget the Vino Stan?
 
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