Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

"Ugg" boots are American,

The company called UGG Australia, originally set up by an Australian, is American, now part of Decker. They used to make their footwear in Australia and New Zealand but are now produce in China. Australia would have counted them as exports when they were made there.

How can you forget the Vino Stan?

Drink enough of it and forgetting is easy

 

[ELLERS]

Do we never learn?
https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-facing-tory-rebellion-over-possible-defence-cuts-11142938
Politically this is the worst time to start cutting your defense. Is May that stupid? Only last week she said about the threat from Russia FFS!
Look what happened in the Falklands as soon as we made cuts? And they are once again making noises.
Look how we embarrassed ourselves by cannibalizing equipment in both Iraq and Afghanistan due to cuts.
This is not the time especially with Russia/N Korea/Iran/Argentina and even China in a few years as potential threats.

 

[rangercol]

Do we never learn?
https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-facing-tory-rebellion-over-possible-defence-cuts-11142938
Politically this is the worst time to start cutting your defense. Is May that stupid? Only last week she said about the threat from Russia FFS!
Look what happened in the Falklands as soon as we made cuts? And they are once again making noises.
Look how we embarrassed ourselves by cannibalizing equipment in both Iraq and Afghanistan due to cuts.
This is not the time especially with Russia/N Korea/Iran/Argentina and even China in a few years as potential threats.

Unfortunately we are living in an era of unbelievably awful politicians of all colours.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

Having spent time with friends in Shrewsbury a wonderful town I can fully appreciate and respect the Brexit vote to leave

The housing market in the south and especially London is to blame and urgent adjustment is required. Crass comparison I know but the architecture of this town I love

The fact that you can today simply add a nought to the asking price of houses is shameful between Wimbledon and Shrewsbury

People of the south have done nothing clever, are more selfish and unfriendly

I consider myself nothing but lucky and feel ashamed

Visiting friends who also live in the same hamlet in France during the summer . It’s not right that my partner can pull out 10 times the amount of money to build a new life

People on here may know that I unconditionally gave everything away once 12 years ago and yet without trying fortunate things have happened ... this is not correct and it’s very humbling

The culture is knackered and wrong

 

[sb_73]

Having spent time with friends in Shrewsbury a wonderful town I can fully appreciate and respect the Brexit vote to leave

The housing market in the south and especially London is to blame and urgent adjustment is required. Crass comparison I know but the architecture of this town I love

The fact that you can today simply add a nought to the asking price of houses is shameful between Wimbledon and Shrewsbury

People of the south have done nothing clever, are more selfish and unfriendly

I consider myself nothing but lucky and feel ashamed

Visiting friends who also live in the same hamlet in France during the summer . It’s not right that my partner can pull out 10 times the amount of money to build a new life

People on here may know that I unconditionally gave everything away once 12 years ago and yet without trying fortunate things have happened ... this is not correct and it’s very humbling

The culture is knackered and wrong

I don’t see what any of that has to do with Brexit. If anything it’s a reason for Shrewsbury and other places like it, to break away from the south of the U.K. And anyway it could be said that with cheaper housing costs and a cleaner environment they have a better quality of life than Londoners. Of course if they spend all their time mithering on about how unfair everything is and how the culture is knackered (it is but not just here, you’ll find plenty of people in France saying that and voting FN) it will sour their lives, but that’s their lookout.

I am London born and bred and I love the place, but I know plenty of people like you and me who have moved out, often in a northerly or westerly direction, and haven't regretted it for a second. It has improved both my standard of living and my quality of life.

 

[sb_73]

So now the cost of the alliance with the DUP is becoming clear. Arlene Foster and her Neanderthal cronies insist that Northern Ireland must be treated exactly the same as the rest of the U.K. in post Brexit world, no special arrangement for them. At the same time she wants no border between the north and Ireland.

There is a massive logical inconsistency in this, and it is also at odds with how the Northern Irish voted in the referendum. The only way for no border to continue is for Northern Ireland to stay in the Customs Union (and preferably the Single Market). If Foster insists that Northern Ireland must be the same as the rest of the U.K., the whole country has to stay in. But in the same cretinous breath she says she doesn’t want this.

The only authority Foster has is through the votes she lends to a crippled Tory party. She doesn’t represent the Northern Irish Government because there isn’t one.

Whenever an Irish politician points this out, as they have done several times over the last few months, and have done again today, the blue media jump all over them.

Obviously I don’t like being held hostage by these horrible people, but my views don’t count any more. What do the Brexit voters on here think? Should Northern Ireland have special arrangements to allow the softest of soft borders with Ireland (which might require some kind of border control between NI and the rest of the U.K., but that would at least be an internal issue, for us to sort out), which would be more in line with what the people there voted for, or should we just tell these British citizens to **** off along with the rest of the EU?

Of course if we do something different for Northern Ireland, the Scots will want the same.......

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

I don’t see what any of that has to do with Brexit. If anything it’s a reason for Shrewsbury and other places like it, to break away from the south of the U.K. And anyway it could be said that with cheaper housing costs and a cleaner environment they have a better quality of life than Londoners. Of course if they spend all their time mithering on about how unfair everything is and how the culture is knackered (it is but not just here, you’ll find plenty of people in France saying that and voting FN) it will sour their lives, but that’s their lookout.

I am London born and bred and I love the place, but I know plenty of people like you and me who have moved out, often in a northerly or westerly direction, and haven't regretted it for a second. It has improved both my standard of living and my quality of life.

I came from the mud of East Sussex and watched while stock brokers turned farms into weekend retreats

What I am saying is that it’s very easy to see why the protest vote went the way it did when you touch life outside of London

 

[ELLERS]

Having spent time with friends in Shrewsbury a wonderful town I can fully appreciate and respect the Brexit vote to leave

The housing market in the south and especially London is to blame and urgent adjustment is required. Crass comparison I know but the architecture of this town I love

The fact that you can today simply add a nought to the asking price of houses is shameful between Wimbledon and Shrewsbury

People of the south have done nothing clever, are more selfish and unfriendly

I consider myself nothing but lucky and feel ashamed

Visiting friends who also live in the same hamlet in France during the summer . It’s not right that my partner can pull out 10 times the amount of money to build a new life

People on here may know that I unconditionally gave everything away once 12 years ago and yet without trying fortunate things have happened ... this is not correct and it’s very humbling

The culture is knackered and wrong

WTF?

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

So now the cost of the alliance with the DUP is becoming clear. Arlene Foster and her Neanderthal cronies insist that Northern Ireland must be treated exactly the same as the rest of the U.K. in post Brexit world, no special arrangement for them. At the same time she wants no border between the north and Ireland.

There is a massive logical inconsistency in this, and it is also at odds with how the Northern Irish voted in the referendum. The only way for no border to continue is for Northern Ireland to stay in the Customs Union (and preferably the Single Market). If Foster insists that Northern Ireland must be the same as the rest of the U.K., the whole country has to stay in. But in the same cretinous breath she says she doesn’t want this.

The only authority Foster has is through the votes she lends to a crippled Tory party. She doesn’t represent the Northern Irish Government because there isn’t one.

Whenever an Irish politician points this out, as they have done several times over the last few months, and have done again today, the blue media jump all over them.

Obviously I don’t like being held hostage by these horrible people, but my views don’t count any more. What do the Brexit voters on here think? Should Northern Ireland have special arrangements to allow the softest of soft borders with Ireland (which might require some kind of border control between NI and the rest of the U.K., but that would at least be an internal issue, for us to sort out), which would be more in line with what the people there voted for, or should we just tell these British citizens to **** off along with the rest of the EU?

Of course if we do something different for Northern Ireland, the Scots will want the same.......

The Ireland part of Brexit is a knotty problem, and I see no point in personalising it or trying to force Northern Ireland into a separate arrangement from the rest of the UK. The task for the UK government is to find a third way, perhaps some computerised method of following goods to and from the border with Ireland.

Could it be a deal breaker for the EU/Brexit negotiations if no practicable solution is found? Possibly. Nevertheless, it would be preferable, in my respectful view, if Irish officials don't advise the UK in what kind of Brexit it should choose, in the same way that the UK should stay out of Irish internal affairs.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Do we never learn?
https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-facing-tory-rebellion-over-possible-defence-cuts-11142938
Politically this is the worst time to start cutting your defense. Is May that stupid? Only last week she said about the threat from Russia FFS!
Look what happened in the Falklands as soon as we made cuts? And they are once again making noises.
Look how we embarrassed ourselves by cannibalizing equipment in both Iraq and Afghanistan due to cuts.
This is not the time especially with Russia/N Korea/Iran/Argentina and even China in a few years as potential threats.

We can’t afford to maintain a £45bn Defence budget with a very necessary £40bn Brexit to pay for.

Might have to divert some of that £350m a week NHS cash to this.

 

[sb_73]

The Ireland part of Brexit is a knotty problem, and I see no point in personalising it or trying to force Northern Ireland into a separate arrangement from the rest of the UK. The task for the UK government is to find a third way, perhaps some computerised method of following goods to and from the border with Ireland.

Could it be a deal breaker for the EU/Brexit negotiations if no practicable solution is found? Possibly. Nevertheless, it would be preferable, in my respectful view, if Irish officials don't advise the UK in what kind of Brexit it should choose, in the same way that the UK should stay out of Irish internal affairs.

It’s hardly British internal affairs, it’s the subject of negotiation between us and the EU, of which Ireland is a part and which has a critical interest in this matter. Everybody has dismissed the computerised option as magical thinking, and given the government’s (and its predecessors) record on IT systems that is not unreasonable. Besides, it will be the illegal trade that will soar, as the smuggling between Norway and Sweden shows.

Do you really think we get to choose what type of Brexit we have? We can choose no deal or stay in, anything else has to be negotiated and agreed with the 27. Apparently, according to the Sunday Times, May has made a new offer on the divorce bill which is likely to be accepted. The number will not made public now or even when the deal is finalised, for fear of hard Brexit aficionados causing problems for our weak government. My understanding is that the citizenship thing is almost sorted, so that leaves the Irish border, which is apparently down to Arlene Foster, because she can veto the government, with no mandate to do so whatsoever.

 

[ELLERS]

We can’t afford to maintain a £45bn Defence budget with a very necessary £40bn Brexit to pay for.

That is incorrect for starters. We Might have to divert some of that £350m a week NHS cash to this.

We waste too much money on unnecessary stuff including foreign aid. Put your own house in order before you start worrying about others.
As one MP said you don't do Santa to Brussels and Scrooge to your own people. When we leave the EU we won't have to worry about putting money in to prop up the crap countries.
It's hard but necessary.

 

[QPRNUTS]

The Ireland part of Brexit is a knotty problem, and I see no point in personalising it or trying to force Northern Ireland into a separate arrangement from the rest of the UK. The task for the UK government is to find a third way, perhaps some computerised method of following goods to and from the border with Ireland.

Could it be a deal breaker for the EU/Brexit negotiations if no practicable solution is found? Possibly. Nevertheless, it would be preferable, in my respectful view, if Irish officials don't advise the UK in what kind of Brexit it should choose, in the same way that the UK should stay out of Irish internal affairs.

Goldy
The border issue is massive for us. It goes without saying that many over here want that part of our country back at some stage in the future. Is that not reasonable?
Britain does not seem to know what it wants at the moment regarding Brexit. No official actual plan has been submitted. I live along the border. The amount of people on both sides who’s businesses are completely dependent on free trade is huge. Don’t underestimate the potential problems that will arise if there is a hard border.
Foster is an absolute joke. Impossible to work or reason with. She’s not even liked by many in her own party. Tensions are high here at the moment and Irish politicians are more than entitled to stand their ground especially since the noise coming from London is changing daily.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Goldy
The border issue is massive for us. It goes without saying that many over here want that part of our country back at some stage in the future. Is that not reasonable?
Britain does not seem to know what it wants at the moment regarding Brexit. No official actual plan has been submitted. I live along the border. The amount of people on both sides who’s businesses are completely dependent on free trade is huge. Don’t underestimate the potential problems that will arise if there is a hard border.
Foster is an absolute joke. Impossible to work or reason with. She’s not even liked by many in her own party. Tensions are high here at the moment and Irish politicians are more than entitled to stand their ground especially since the noise coming from London is changing daily.

Great to have the Irish perspective, Nuts, and on the issue of uniting Ireland, if the people of the North voted to leave the UK tomorrow, I personally would give it 100% backing (as I believe most people would on mainland UK). There doesn't seem to be an appetite for that at the moment, so far as I can tell, taking all the communities in NI into account. I may be wrong, but that's my perspective from a distance.

As to Brexit, of course, the Irish Government has every right to argue the case for its country's best interests. But recently, we have seen the Mr Varadkar and Phil Hogan, Ireland's EU minister, calling for the UK to remain in the Single Market and Customs Union which, while it would solve the Irish border problem, is encroaching into matters of UK governance. There's a strong feeling the UK, among Leavers anyway, that staying in the Single Market and the Customs Union would mean the UK isn't really leaving the EU, will be subject to all its rules, be billed annually for many billion £'s and yet have it's voice taken away. It won't run imho.

As I say, the UK has to work with the EU, particularly Ireland, to find a Third Way in order to keep a soft border and yet allow NI to be treated as the rest of the UK unless and until there is a strong movement to leave. On a personal note, hope all is good with you over in the Emerald Isle, Nuts - leaving aside border issues(!)

 

[QPR Oslo]

So now the cost of the alliance with the DUP is becoming clear. Arlene Foster and her Neanderthal cronies insist that Northern Ireland must be treated exactly the same as the rest of the U.K. in post Brexit world, no special arrangement for them. At the same time she wants no border between the north and Ireland.

There is a massive logical inconsistency in this, and it is also at odds with how the Northern Irish voted in the referendum. The only way for no border to continue is for Northern Ireland to stay in the Customs Union (and preferably the Single Market). If Foster insists that Northern Ireland must be the same as the rest of the U.K., the whole country has to stay in. But in the same cretinous breath she says she doesn’t want this.

The only authority Foster has is through the votes she lends to a crippled Tory party. She doesn’t represent the Northern Irish Government because there isn’t one.

Whenever an Irish politician points this out, as they have done several times over the last few months, and have done again today, the blue media jump all over them.

Obviously I don’t like being held hostage by these horrible people, but my views don’t count any more. What do the Brexit voters on here think? Should Northern Ireland have special arrangements to allow the softest of soft borders with Ireland (which might require some kind of border control between NI and the rest of the U.K., but that would at least be an internal issue, for us to sort out), which would be more in line with what the people there voted for, or should we just tell these British citizens to **** off along with the rest of the EU?

Of course if we do something different for Northern Ireland, the Scots will want the same.......

Staying in the single market would solve so many problems. Obviously it's too simple a solution for the poltical leaders of the 2 major UK political parties who need to complicate everything whatever the cost, in order to meet their agendas.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

It’s hardly British internal affairs, it’s the subject of negotiation between us and the EU, of which Ireland is a part and which has a critical interest in this matter. Everybody has dismissed the computerised option as magical thinking, and given the government’s (and its predecessors) record on IT systems that is not unreasonable. Besides, it will be the illegal trade that will soar, as the smuggling between Norway and Sweden shows.

Do you really think we get to choose what type of Brexit we have? We can choose no deal or stay in, anything else has to be negotiated and agreed with the 27. Apparently, according to the Sunday Times, May has made a new offer on the divorce bill which is likely to be accepted. The number will not made public now or even when the deal is finalised, for fear of hard Brexit aficionados causing problems for our weak government. My understanding is that the citizenship thing is almost sorted, so that leaves the Irish border, which is apparently down to Arlene Foster, because she can veto the government, with no mandate to do so whatsoever.

On the issue of UK internal affairs, see my post to Nuts, Stan. The computerised option may be out of vogue, but since neither a hard border or a separation of NI from the UK arrangements will run, I think we'll see a return to it. It needs creative thinking. Foster may be unpopular, but I can't see any leader of the DUP, whoever it is, agreeing to the separation issue. It's awkward for everyone but it cannot be forced.

Here's what Ireland may be worried about - the Brexit talks continue, as you say, the citizenship issue is resolved and as for money, £40bn is pledged. The Irish border issue alone remains. If unresolved, the UK may move rapidly to a no-deal option. The EU would then be faced with losing a massive part of their budget (who will fill it - Germany and France? I doubt it) and have huge disruption to trade, damaging to everyone. Ireland, that has had the backing of other EU members, would now come under huge pressure from everyone to accept some sort of border compromise. It's a critical issue and has to be focused upon now. Today, Liam Fox is suggesting that the Ireland border issue should be left until the last minute, once the trade deal has been agreed. Is this because he thinks the Irish government will then be under the kind of pressure I've just outlined? Perhaps.

 

[Stroller]

Great to have the Irish perspective, Nuts, and on the issue of uniting Ireland, if the people of the North voted to leave the UK tomorrow, I personally would give it 100% backing (as I believe most people would on mainland UK). There doesn't seem to be an appetite for that at the moment, so far as I can tell, taking all the communities in NI into account. I may be wrong, but that's my perspective from a distance.

As to Brexit, of course, the Irish Government has every right to argue the case for its country's best interests. But recently, we have seen the Mr Varadkar and Phil Hogan, Ireland's EU minister, calling for the UK to remain in the Single Market and Customs Union which, while it would solve the Irish border problem, is encroaching into matters of UK governance. There's a strong feeling the UK, among Leavers anyway, that staying in the Single Market and the Customs Union would mean the UK isn't really leaving the EU, will be subject to all its rules, be billed annually for many billion £'s and yet have it's voice taken away. It won't run imho.

As I say, the UK has to work with the EU, particularly Ireland, to find a Third Way in order to keep a soft border and yet allow NI to be treated as the rest of the UK unless and until there is a strong movement to leave. On a personal note, hope all is good with you over in the Emerald Isle, Nuts - leaving aside border issues(!)

Staying in the Single Market is what the majority wanted, Goldie. Surely you wouldn't deny 'the will of the people'?

 

[QPRNUTS]

On the issue of UK internal affairs, see my post to Nuts, Stan. The computerised option may be out of vogue, but since neither a hard border or a separation of NI from the UK arrangements will run, I think we'll see a return to it. It needs creative thinking. Foster may be unpopular, but I can't see any leader of the DUP, whoever it is, agreeing to the separation issue. It's awkward for everyone but it cannot be forced.

Here's what Ireland may be worried about - the Brexit talks continue, as you say, the citizenship issue is resolved and as for money, £40bn is pledged. The Irish border issue alone remains. If unresolved, the UK may move rapidly to a no-deal option. The EU would then be faced with losing a massive part of their budget (who will fill it - Germany and France? I doubt it) and have huge disruption to trade, damaging to everyone. Ireland, that has had the backing of other EU members, would now come under huge pressure from everyone to accept some sort of border compromise. It's a critical issue and has to be focused upon now. Today, Liam Fox is suggesting that the Ireland border issue should be left until the last minute, once the trade deal has been agreed. Is this because he thinks the Irish government will then be under the kind of pressure I've just outlined? Perhaps.

Super post and spot on.
Ireland knows what it wants, Europe knows what it wants but what Britain wants is not fully known yet as no proposal other than a final settlement has been submitted. Ireland has a veto vote during phase 1 of the negotiations but won’t have in later phases. That’s why the rhetoric is ramping up here. Of course our politicians should stay out of British policy but Ireland (and rightly so IMO) should not budge beyond phase 1 until it is resolved. There is simply too much at stake here financially, politically and from a stability point of view.
If only it was as simple as NI staying in the Trade Union. Now wouldn’t that be progressive!

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Staying in the Single Market is what the majority wanted, Goldie. Surely you wouldn't deny 'the will of the people'?

Where's the evidence for that, Strolls? During the referendum campaign it was made clear by Cameron, Gove, Johnson, Osborne, Davies, indeed all but a few insignificant politicos that "Leave" meant leaving the Single Market. Cameron and Osborne in particular were forever squawking that Leave meant leaving the Single Market. It could hardly have been clearer

 

[rangercol]

Super post and spot on.
Ireland knows what it wants, Europe knows what it wants but what Britain wants is not fully known yet as no proposal other than a final settlement has been submitted. Ireland has a veto vote during phase 1 of the negotiations but won’t have in later phases. That’s why the rhetoric is ramping up here. Of course our politicians should stay out of British policy but Ireland (and rightly so IMO) should not budge beyond phase 1 until it is resolved. There is simply too much at stake here financially, politically and from a stability point of view.
If only it was as simple as NI staying in the Trade Union. Now wouldn’t that be progressive!

I for one would be more than happy if NI stayed in the trade union with the EU. I've said on here before that I believe NI is a special case within the UK and some progressive thinking would be a way of heading off significant trouble in the future imo.