Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

Sounds like there's a fair bit to lose and not much to gain for Labour from that. Getting into bed as the lesser partner with the Tories doesn't tend to benefit you. Look at Cleggy Clegg- not even an MP now and forced to sit on a beach collecting rent on his Spanish property portfolio forever.

The country has the most to lose mate. Now is exactly the time to be forcing home the argument that the economy is more important than immigration (especially as you can still hammer down on the 50% of immigration that is non EU), and give May the get out that I believe she wants and needs. I don't have any expectation that some kind of cross party collaboration will happen, precisely for the reasons you state. However, they do have a lot to lose. They might well form the next government and will have to live with the consequences of a May/DUP negotiated Brexit, with no ability to change it.

May carrying out the most pointless reshuffle, only the truly dire like Liz Truss can be demoted and even they cannot be kicked out, so powerless is the boss. Damian Green becomes the New Number Two. Big remainer.

 

[KooPeeArr]

Sounds like there's a fair bit to lose and not much to gain for Labour from that. Getting into bed as the lesser partner with the Tories doesn't tend to benefit you. Look at Cleggy Clegg- not even an MP now and forced to sit on a beach collecting rent on his Spanish property portfolio forever.

I'd say the opposite. Corbyn has improved his public standing based on seeming calm and above pettiness. If now he refuses the chance to influence Brexit negotiations more towards his softer line (or at least that of his manifesto) then he just looks over principalled for the sake of it.

He has to carry on winning over doubters (ie those that didn't vote for him) if he wants to win any imminent election and acting like an immovable jerk won't do that (and I did vote Labour so I have no alterior agenda in saying this).

 

[Stroller]

Davidson calls for main parties to come together to reach a consensus on Brexit position, Corbyn says 'no, I don't think there is a consensus' summing up everything that is wrong with British politics. You make a consensus it doesn't just happen with everyone agreeing with you. Talk, you idiot. He doesn't want to be seen to be a part of anything that could risk his chances in the next election. Just about any deal reached with the EU will make a large chunk of the electorate unhappy, so let's avoid any blame, and then say 'it wasn't our fault, vote for us'.

Stop putting party and ideology ahead of country, at the very least say 'ok we'll give it a go, we only have one chance to get this vaguely right, we'll keep an open mind' even if you have doubts over whether it will work. And it will show that you are serious about being a party of government.

Corbyn would certainly be wrong to refuse an offer of some kind of cross-party approach to Brexit, but no such offer has been made as far as I'm aware, just Davidson saying that she wants to have a say. Meanwhile, Labour are going to move an amendment to the Tory Queen's speech (which is presumably just three words long), with their own programme. Still hoping to actually form a government.

 

[sb_73]

Corbyn would certainly be wrong to refuse an offer of some kind of cross-party approach to Brexit, but no such offer has been made as far as I'm aware, just Davidson saying that she wants to have a say. Meanwhile, Labour are going to move an amendment to the Tory Queen's speech (which is presumably just three words long), with their own programme. Still hoping to actually form a government.

You are right, no formal offer as far as I know, but Davidson floated the idea and he seemed to rule it out.

I can't see how Corbyn can form a government. The election was a disaster for the Tories, but they still have by far the most seats and a very high % of the vote. Once again it's their internecine **** thats ****ing everything up.

Biggest question for me is how a vegetarian teetotaller can acquire a gut like Corbyn's.

 

[sb_73]

On another topic, lot's being said about the need for the British and Irish governments to maintain a studied neutrality in their approach to Sinn Fein and the DUP to maintain the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement.

Though I suspect that the bigger risk is the DUP ability to work with a gay Asian Irish prime minister.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

You are right, no formal offer as far as I know, but Davidson floated the idea and he seemed to rule it out.

I can't see how Corbyn can form a government. The election was a disaster for the Tories, but they still have by far the most seats and a very high % of the vote. Once again it's their internecine **** thats ****ing everything up.

Biggest question for me is how a vegetarian teetotaller can acquire a gut like Corbyn's.

He can't realistically but he can mobilise support from his MPs who should be grateful to have a job thanks to him and put pressure on for another election circa November where realistically he'd have a lot more chance of gaining than losing.

If Kensington can elect a Labour MP, anywhere can.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Sounds like there's a fair bit to lose and not much to gain for Labour from that. Getting into bed as the lesser partner with the Tories doesn't tend to benefit you. Look at Cleggy Clegg- not even an MP now and forced to sit on a beach collecting rent on his Spanish property portfolio forever.

I'll have you know that he cleans the house and has a hot meal paella ready when Miriam comes home

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Interesting that Macdonnell has made it clear that Labour regard the Brexit vote as meaning we are out of Single Market membership. They want access with no trade tariffs, good luck getting that.

Meanwhile, Jezza, who clearly likes elections, is preparing for the next. FFS. I suggest you improve on your parliamentary appearances, mate, because you're crap at that.

 

[Stroller]

Interesting that Macdonnell has made it clear that Labour regard the Brexit vote as meaning we are out of Single Market membership. They want access with no trade tariffs, good luck getting that.

Meanwhile, Jezza, who clearly likes elections, is preparing for the next. FFS. I suggest you improve on your parliamentary appearances, mate, because you're crap at that.

The next election will very likely see a Labour win, so he's right to be preparing for it. He's not brilliant at PMQs, but that's hardly important is it?

I see the DUP want Farage involved in Brexit negotiations. FFS.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

The next election will very likely see a Labour win, so he's right to be preparing for it. He's not brilliant at PMQs, but that's hardly important is it?

I see the DUP want Farage involved in Brexit negotiations. FFS.

The Tories are nothing if not pragmatic. In normal circumstances, Theresa would be out of no.10 by now. But they'll rally round her with the DUP, so that Jez has to keep his next manifesto on ice. I'd love Farage involved in the Brexit negotiations, so long as his participation is limited to the back room.

Brexiteer Gove now drafted back into the Cabinet which will hopefully add some backbone

 

[sb_73]

The Tories are nothing if not pragmatic. In normal circumstances, Theresa would be out of no.10 by now. But they'll rally round her with the DUP, so that Jez has to keep his next manifesto on ice. I'd love Farage involved in the Brexit negotiations, so long as his participation is limited to the back room.

Brexiteer Gove now drafted back into the Cabinet which will hopefully add some backbone

I'm sure Gove will bring a wealth of expertise to the cabinet. He was a journalist after all.

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[Uber_Hoop]

I'm sure Gove will bring a wealth of expertise to the cabinet. He was a journalist after all.

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In fairness, so was Churchill.

 

[sb_73]

In fairness, so was Churchill.

Not sure many would naturally compare the achievements of Gove and Churchill, Ubes.....exception that proves the rule etc etc yada, yada, yada

Just heard that Barry Gardiner on the wireless, a Labour bloke I'd never heard of before this election campaign. Labour clearly not going to risk anything by collaborating with anyone. Macdonnell et al are the natural allies of Rees Mogg and the other Victorian Tory nutters re the EU, it's only the number of decades they want to take us back that differs.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Not sure many would naturally compare the achievements of Gove and Churchill, Ubes.....exception that proves the rule etc etc yada, yada, yada

Just heard that Barry Gardiner on the wireless, a Labour bloke I'd never heard of before this election campaign. Labour clearly not going to risk anything by collaborating with anyone. Macdonnell et al are the natural allies of Rees Mogg and the other Victorian Tory nutters re the EU, it's only the number of decades they want to take us back that differs.

Not comparing achievements at all, Old Bean. t'was merely making the point that being a journalist doesn't automatically mean one is incompetent. Gove, of course, is a bit of a knob.

 

[TheBigDipper]

In a different political arena...

It's starting to appear like Trump has a management method of getting compliance for his actions through a network of "loyal" people prepared to overlook their legal and moral duties to the American people and (almost) swear allegiance to him personally. I wonder how many people are in that situation.

 

[seagullhoop]

Only 15 per cent of fetuses born before 23-weeks survive to leave their neo-natal units and most will suffer severe health and/or physical problems. Babies born as prematurely as 21-22 weeks are nearly always born brain damaged and severely disabled – meaning that they may have very little quality of life to look forward to. There is a severe shortage of people willing to adopt severely disabled children with low life expectancy. The weight of medical opinion says 24 weeks is a sensible cut off.

Anyway, the DUP doesn't give a toss about these arguments, their position is strictly 'moral/religious'. They even deny abortions to the victims of rape. We have a good tradition of trying not to legislate on individual, moral decisions in most of this country, it would be a tragedy to sacrifice this in order to prop up a stuffed dummy Prime Minister with a bunch of batshit crazy fundamentalists.

Of course we can debate abortion cut off dates, just not to appease this lot please. For the record I am in favour of maximising choice for women while minimising risk of suffering for pre term babies. Current medical evidence and opinion says 24 weeks. If it ever came to a referendum women should get two votes each.

I'd go further and argue that perhaps there is no valid reason for men to get a vote on something which is the sole province of a woman's body.

In situations where the mother and father disagree there is always recourse to the courts. But as far as legislation is concerned I'm struggling to see why a male point of view is relevant or even desirable.

Since this is such an emotive subject for many, can I just state for the record that I'm not looking to start a flame war... just expressing a viewpoint.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I'd go further and argue that perhaps there is no valid reason for men to get a vote on something which is the sole province of a woman's body.

In situations where the mother and father disagree there is always recourse to the courts. But as far as legislation is concerned I'm struggling to see why a male point of view is relevant or even desirable.

Since this is such an emotive subject for many, can I just state for the record that I'm not looking to start a flame war... just expressing a viewpoint.

I think we're all expressing viewpoints. It's a sole province of a woman's body at first. But then the foetus gets legal status. There's no reason why the date the foetus gets legal identity and status should be decided upon by women only.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Not comparing achievements at all, Old Bean. t'was merely making the point that being a journalist doesn't automatically mean one is incompetent. Gove, of course, is a bit of a knob.

At least he's a QPR knob...

 

[durbar2003]

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[seagullhoop]

I think we're all expressing viewpoints. It's a sole province of a woman's body at first. But then the foetus gets legal status. There's no reason why the date the foetus gets legal identity and status should be decided upon by women only.

...and that's the problem. Even the legal definition of what constitutes a foetus is clouded by religious, moral and cultural influences which are predominantly created and maintained by men.