Off Topic The Politics Thread
- Thread starter Stroller
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
I'm not the person to ask Col, I quite like him. He gets slaughtered in the press, and that has a big effect.
I just read this, explaining why Corbyn is not as popular might be expected with traditional working class voters....
Corbyn is a fairly typical middle-class socialist. When working-class people encounter him, their class instinct says “hypocrite”. They do not see someone who will fight against his own class interests. They may be wrong in this, but history tells them otherwise. May is a traditional Tory. What you see is what you get.
Labour’s problem is that Jeremy Corbyn may have made it once again a party for the working class, but it is no longer of the working class. Therein lies the cause of its dilemma.
He is popular with younger voters though, and if they get out and vote in large numbers he will do better than polls predict.
Though I suspect you are taking the piss, it is a good question. I can only speak for myself of course. The idealist in me likes a lot of the Labour manifesto. It's time that we were given an anti austerity choice. The cynical realist in me says it would never be delivered, because the economy would be ****ed by the simple fact that Labour won on this platform (the Brexit run on the £ would pale into insignificance) and I have no evidence that the Labour lead team have the competence to deliver it (not that I think the Tories have much to shout about there) so we'd all end up worse off. Corbyn himself is a massive negative to me, though he is performing ok in this campaign. He is doubtless sincere, but I can't get past the fact that he is essentially a protest politician, his positions on foreign policy are almost diametrically opposed to my own, he has spent decades voting against his own party and now expects loyalty from it, and he is surrounded by genuinely sinister people. Plus he has no visible sense of humour (scoreless draw with May there) and doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the box.
I think Labour are running a better campaign than I expected, and deserve some respect for trying to stick with the issues rather than what seems to me an entirely cynical personality based effort from the Tories. The Lib Dems have been pathetic, I thought they might do ok but can't see them increasing their share of the vote much, let alone winning many more seats. With the help of the UKIP vote the Tories will win easily, though perhaps not the mega landslide predicted.
I have a genuine dilemma about how to vote. The easy thing would be to vote Labour and bask in my own righteousness, safe in the knowledge they won't win either locally or nationally, and I won't be out of pocket as a result. Though I like the cannabis legalisation stuff and the clarity of their stance (however unrealistic) on Brexit (contrast with Labour, who appear to be avoiding the subject) the Lib Dems are limp and Farron is a punchable God botherer. I have voted Tory in the past (2010 when New Labour was a tired busted flush and had to go) but I really dislike this current bunch, it's not just Brexit. And apart from fox hunting and grammar schools I have only a hazy idea of what else they want to do, roll on their manifesto.
May is still streets ahead of Corbyn in personal popularity polls, and she is also more popular than the Tories as a whole - so much so that they are campaigning under her name rather than the party one, in the North. I suspect your Facebook group is full of arty, liberal types.
Last edited:
You must log in or register to see media
Just heard a short interview on R4 with Philip Hammond coming on to slag off the Labour manifesto - John Humphrys was the presenter. Hammond sloganed with "their figures don't add up" and "we need to live within our means". When asked to explain how they don't add up, he came up with a figure that Humphrys immediately rubbished by explaining how this was normal practice and - in fact - the same method that the Conservatives used to explain away their spending record since 2010. Hammond couldn't respond effectively. That might be why it was a short interview...
Either the Labour figures do add up or the Conservatives have been doing the same thing in government and we can't trust either of them.
Shortly after, I heard the R4 news headlines. The sole comment was "Mr Hammond told the BBC that Labour's figures don't add up".
Either the Labour figures do add up or the Conservatives have been doing the same thing in government and we can't trust either of them.
Shortly after, I heard the R4 news headlines. The sole comment was "Mr Hammond told the BBC that Labour's figures don't add up".
I heard that, and though I despise Humphreys I thought he handled it well, without any of the aggressive badgering that I heard from Nick Robinson and Eddie Mair yesterday. Hammond was pathetic, trying to crowbar in 'strong and stable' and make it May v Corbyn in a very hamfisted way. Every government borrows to fund capital spending, and it happens to be a very good time to do this.
Good of the BBC to headline his one message though, the lefty bastards. I read somewhere that the Today programme gets about 7 milllion listeners a week. So perhaps a million will have heard the actual interview. Many millions more will hear the Tory soundbite repeated on every news bulletin throughout the day. Job done.
Last edited:
I'll repeat on here what I wrote on the politics thread.............I honestly believe that Corbyn will win. All the momentum seems to be with Labour and all I see everywhere is that the Tories are wrong and Labour are right.
In this era of unbelievable political results, I believe we are about to see another, which will go down as a huge mistake by May to call this election.
In this era of unbelievable political results, I believe we are about to see another, which will go down as a huge mistake by May to call this election.
I've no idea what's going to happen. Labour does seem to be getting some traction that I never expected it to get. I don't even know who I want to win - I just want some of the current policies to change and for a more even-handed government to start looking after everyone, not just the powerful. I don't think a Labour government will get the support of the "elites" (for want of a better label - will be frustrated at every step and ultimately fail to deliver what they say they intend to deliver.
We've lost the art of cooperating for the common good.
When's that Conservative manifesto coming out, then? Anyone?
Under the first past the post system you will usually end up with a member of parliament that most of your constituency didn't want. The exception is in safe seats where candidates have an overwhelming majority of the vote and all the others put together still couldn't beat them. I'd like to see a change to make things more relevant and give us more choice
1) local vote - you may not agree with their party politics but like the work the MP does for the local community
2) party vote - you may like the manifesto and trust a national party your local MP doesn't represent
3) leadership vote - almost a presidential vote to back or sack the successful party leader
4) none of the above - this should be an actual box to tick and counted the same as normal votes, not just spoil your ballot paper
Many constituency MPs are very good at their jobs regardless of their party leanings. Corbyn has always been cited as an excellent constituency MP and local area campaigner but I'd sooner trust my man-parts to a lunatic with a machete than vote for him to lead the country. A No Vote on the ballot paper may at least give us the opportunity to register a protest without making it a joke by voting for the usual array of idiots who stand.
There is a down side to this which the Liberals have always wanted to make the most of with proportional representation in that everyone with a second vote would tend to go for the party just to the left or right of their normal choice which is usually the LibDems. If we'd had PR at the last election UKIP would have won seats so at least first past the post stops them standing any chance of being elected.
I'd like a Labour MP and Labour to be in power but I don't want Corbyn/Abbot/McDonnell anywhere near Number 10 so I'm pretty much stuffed!
1) local vote - you may not agree with their party politics but like the work the MP does for the local community
2) party vote - you may like the manifesto and trust a national party your local MP doesn't represent
3) leadership vote - almost a presidential vote to back or sack the successful party leader
4) none of the above - this should be an actual box to tick and counted the same as normal votes, not just spoil your ballot paper
Many constituency MPs are very good at their jobs regardless of their party leanings. Corbyn has always been cited as an excellent constituency MP and local area campaigner but I'd sooner trust my man-parts to a lunatic with a machete than vote for him to lead the country. A No Vote on the ballot paper may at least give us the opportunity to register a protest without making it a joke by voting for the usual array of idiots who stand.
There is a down side to this which the Liberals have always wanted to make the most of with proportional representation in that everyone with a second vote would tend to go for the party just to the left or right of their normal choice which is usually the LibDems. If we'd had PR at the last election UKIP would have won seats so at least first past the post stops them standing any chance of being elected.
I'd like a Labour MP and Labour to be in power but I don't want Corbyn/Abbot/McDonnell anywhere near Number 10 so I'm pretty much stuffed!
"soon" according to P Hammond.
I think May is an innately cautious ditherer, doesn't want to show her hand until everyone else has shown theirs and still retain the wriggle room to draw a few more cards. Labour are going big on policy and ideas, which people like because it is positive, the Tories thought they could run an entirely negative campaign, they might have to revise that, so are desperately beefing up their manifesto hence the delay.
As I replied on the other thread, I very much doubt it, but it might be closer than I initially thought. I'm confident enough to buy you a season ticket for next season if Corbyn is the new PM. Double your suffering.
I don't understand your new voting system but I 100% agree with your last sentence.
Last edited:
Good post.
Completely agree that Labour have some decent policies, although I'll never agree with their stance on defence and foreign policy and they are full of sinister people backing Corbyn.
I genuinely wouldn't know how to vote if it weren't for the fact that I feel I must back Brexit and I don't trust anyone other than May to be strong enough to take on the EU in negotiations.
I genuinely fear that May might have dropped a huge clanger calling this election.
(You're right about facebook)
With my revolutionary voting system I'd get a Labour MP, Labour would win power and they'd have to boot out Corbyn!
As long as Corbyn has the backing of the party members he'll stay even if Labour get a drubbing on 8th June. Having said that a lot of pollsters think it won't be a whitewash though and see no real gains for the Tories in Labour strongholds. The SNP will clear up north of the border again. Tories will have enough of a majority and no coalition in opposition. Business as usual and we can sit back and watch just how badly May gets shafted with Brexit.
Are we still in Austerity? What ever happened to Cameron and his pig? Oh, of course, he became editor of The Standard.
The Tories are wrong - no policies, just bullying the dick that is Corbyn.
The joke is old now - people can see through it - they're ALL ****. In these days if you offer something, just something that is not more of the status quo, the masses will jump on it.
The Tories are like Andy Murray - reached No. 1 due to other's deficiencies - doesn't attack, more of a defender waiting relentlessly for others to make mistakes. Well, the one time May went on the attack (in calling the Election) she doesn't seem to have much to back it up with.
She's a lame duck, a poor negotiator, does not even know how to even start the game. Could be fun.
The Anarchist in me is loving it. This will finally be the end of 2 party politics in the UK. There is another way.
Real consensus, real collaboration and really caring about the vast majority of the population.
Under Corbyn, Labour has produced its best and most radical manifesto for many years. Even the Blairites must recognise that Corbyn's policies are popular in the country, even if he himself is not. Corbyn, with the backing of the half-a-million membership, has shifted Labour back to where it should be - on the left of the political spectrum, not the centre. Labour can't win this election, but Corbyn's successor must surely realise that Tory-lite can no longer be an option.