Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
May comes out fighting like Anthony Joshua in the fifth! She says the EU leaks have misrepresented her position but carefully doesn't tell us what her position is! And I don't see how this can influence the UK election except to strengthen her coronation, given what a stubborn and belligerent electorate we are.

While she could well be justified in this I really hate this finger pointing, if you are not with me you are against me, politics. And yes we see it from all parties.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39789915

I suppose what we lose in International Finance we gain in fruit pickers or baristas...

They're hedging, by getting a base in Frankfurt. Can't criticise that. Then they sit back and watch. But if they think that whole offices of financial specialists from the City are going to up sticks and move permanently to Frankfurt, they're deluding themselves and if they force it, they'll lose good staff to competitors
 
Brexit is her Falklands. It all makes sense now.

In celebration of her triumph on 8th June, I'm expecting a medal to be struck depicting Theresa bare breasted on a white stallion, shield and spear in hand. She will drive the hoards of greedy, overpaid, unaccountable Brussels bureaucrats back from where they came, and you'll be sorry you mocked her :emoticon-0100-smile
 
No-one with a brain can deny that there will be an initial downturn in the finances of the UK over the next few years. Pre-Referendum, some of the smarter people supporting Brexit were avoiding commenting on it, or even denying it - even though they fully understood what the financial downside of the political change they craved would be. The only unknown is how deep will that downturn be and how long will it take us to recover.

Governments need money to run public services. People need money to live their lives. The UK needs to import raw materials to continue to produce export goods. Where's that all going to come from whilst we're increasing the size of our overdraft?

The long term future may be completely wonderful, and I hope it is, because Brexit won't be stopped. In the meantime, how much collateral damage to ordinary British peoples lives should we accept to get there? Once we do, will we all feel the pain was worth it? Would it be better to take all the pain in one huge hit or would a slower, less aggressive withdrawal be better for "hard working people"?

Self harm is not a patriotic act - it's a delusional one. Some smart, manipulative people want it because there's no other way they will get the political climate change they crave. Some of you just want Britain to be "Great" again. It already is. Don't ruin it.

Project Fear is dead. All hail Project Ostrich!

Fair point on believing Junckers Col, he truly is a devious toad. But it's the only version of events I have access to, and no one on the UK side has actually denied any of the specifics or offered an alternative version, even David Davies who has just given a rather good interview on the radio. "It's just spin" is a completely different statement to "it's not true". And to date I have no reason to believe May more than Junckers.

As for the enemy within Remainers hoping everything will collapse, I have already posted on the fact that if you believe something is genuinely wrong you have a duty to speak up, particularly in the time before anything is decided, and in that context I want massive pressure on May in order to get the softest possible Brexit. There is no 'good' outcome for me, but there are least worst ones, and no deal is definitely the worst possible. But I am sure you are right, there are some Remainers who want the whole thing to fail so they can crow. But there are also a group of ultra hard line Brexiters, some of whom are Tory MPs, who not only want a complete break and no deal but seem to hope for acrimony. And I feel they have a disproportionate influence to their numbers.

The 'great nation' stuff I won't be drawn on, other than to say I'd prefer it if we were a generally happy nation rather than an unhappy divided 'great' one.

I'm beginning to understand the difficulty with the migrants' rights issue, which I thought would be relatively straightforward - it seems that the EU wants the EU constitution to be the jurisdiction which guarantees the rights of EU citizens in the U.K. post Brexit, on the grounds that anything agreed in the negotiations may not be complied with down the road if it's only under UK jurisdiction. Even I think this is unreasonable, any migrant has to accept the jurisdiction of the country they move to, and unless its enshrined in the kind of treaties we are leaving you cannot have extraterritorial jurisdiction.

Thing is, it's the bureaucrats from Brussels (not necessarily the other EU leaders) who are pushing the most for a hard Brexit. They are the ones with all the aggressive rhetoric (until May's blast back at them today) and they are the ones who want to see Britain fail and the talks fail.
 
The majority of Brexit voters will come to realise that 'taking back control' has made very little difference to their real lives. Laws made in Westminster will feel just like laws made in Brussels.

This is the bit that you just don't get mate.

The laws WILL feel totally different because WE made them and NOT Brussels.
 
This is the bit that you just don't get mate.

The laws WILL feel totally different because WE made them and NOT Brussels.
You are right I don't get it and never will. Westminster is just as distant to me as Brussels, and not much more accountable. But if the majority will feel the difference that's great. Honestly.

And thanks for reading such an epic post.
 
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The one other point that may be an argument for the UK is that the EU currently has a deposit lying in the bank (presumably for contingencies like this, so it might tide them over on a no-deal basis) of in excess of £100 bn, mostly accrued during the time the UK was a member. There is an argument - I don't know about the legalities - for the UK's proportionate share to be taken into account in calculating amounts the UK owes on leaving.

As I say, we're going to get bombarded by cliff edge talk by Farron, Clegg and the others, over the next month at least. I'd really like to see a reliable and independent analysis of the UK's position if the talks break down and we go forward on WTO rules. Who could write such a report, God knows, since every economist seems to have an interest somewhere these days.
According to Giles Brandreth on the One Show (only the most trustworthy sources for me) we have £100bn of gold bulllion sitting in the Bank of England. I thought Gordon Brown had sold it all, but apparently not. Scary thing is it's less than a years worth of paying for the NHS.
 
According to Giles Brandreth on the One Show (only the most trustworthy sources for me) we have £100bn of gold bulllion sitting in the Bank of England. I thought Gordon Brown had sold it all, but apparently not. Scary thing is it's less than a years worth of paying for the NHS.
I have been to the Bank of England vault or stock taking, really, and its not all ours. Many country store gold there for safety.