Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
I know that technology and I are uneasy bedfellows but surely if there had been an atrocity in Sweden those terribly sophisticated American satellites would have been able to pick up and show the footage? You remember the pin point laser strikes which were beamed into our television sets by satellite? The ones which struck their targets with unerring accuracy except for the odd error when British troops were blown up. Also the claims that they could and were watching us all picking our noses to ensure our safety at all times. Come on DT's disciples of not fake news Come on Fox News - that bastion of truth, justice, liberty and journalistic ethics the American way who scooped this story. Surely a great bunch of journos like yourselves have obtained some evidence you can show us worth publishing from your sources. It is worrying that any politician can appeal to his people by simply making true, I mean fake, I mean smart claims when publishing news. And even more so that those of his voters who even know where Iraq, Syria and Britain are in the world, still believe it and do not even question it.

I hope the Swedes demand in writing and publish the answer given to their urgent request for clarification to the who what why where and when of this story.
 
There haven't been an atrocities in Sweden since 2010 so far as I'm aware, but there are problems with Islamic immigration. A young Swedish social worker was murdered by an immigrant last year. There was an alleged gang rape of disabled women by immigrants which has been covered up (reported by Fox News). Immigration crime in Sweden is incredibly high but the liberal elite there refuse to separate figures to show it starkly. Uncontrolled immigration is not serving Sweden well.

When the elite left covers up these problems, it leads to the increase in nationalism and popularism that we're seeing across the Western World. One interesting test will take place next month when the Netherlands, previously a bastion of liberalism, goes to the polls. Geert Wilders the right wing candidate is leading in the polls. If he wins, but a coalition forms to prevent him governing, how will that go down with the Dutch people?
 
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Stroller said:
Only Faux news reports the truth, eh Goldie?
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Can't say 100% it's not false news, but there are a lot of reports from people coming from Sweden (nationals and visitors) reporting that there is suppression of evidence of this kind of offence. Hopefully, the truth will come out, and perhaps Trump shooting from the lip will aid this
 
GoldhawkRd said:
Can't say 100% it's not false news, but there are a lot of reports from people coming from Sweden (nationals and visitors) reporting that there is suppression of evidence of this kind of offence. Hopefully, the truth will come out, and perhaps Trump shooting from the lip will aid this
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GoldhawkRd said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...e-disabled-woman-gotland-claims-a7355186.html
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This is what's so dangerous about these stories. People were arrested but released without charge - is that because there was no crime committed, there was a crime but insufficient evidence, or because the authorities want to cover up crimes committed by refugees? Without definitive knowledge of the case, it depends on your agenda.
 
Stroller said:
This is what's so dangerous about these stories. People were arrested but released without charge - is that because there was no crime committed, there was a crime but insufficient evidence, or because the authorities want to cover up crimes committed by refugees? Without definitive knowledge of the case, it depends on your agenda.
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Liberal laws including the human rights of offenders can be used by instruments of state like the police to conceal material facts from the public. There's a balance to be had, as you allude to. Justice for alleged offenders as against reasonable protection of the public and their rights to relevant information.

The Independent, hardly a right wing mouthpiece, felt it should run this story. I have no idea how it is playing out in Sweden, but looking at the Swedish problems in aggregate, claims by the Swedish elite in response to the Trump speech that "there's nothing to see here" begin to ring hollow
 
GoldhawkRd said:
Can't say 100% it's not false news, but there are a lot of reports from people coming from Sweden (nationals and visitors) reporting that there is suppression of evidence of this kind of offence. Hopefully, the truth will come out, and perhaps Trump shooting from the lip will aid this
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That's the problem isn't it? Personally I would prefer not to congratulate Trump, Fox News or any other journalist when they report without verifying the facts. Just because they choose to advocate their own political beliefs does not make it right. Otherwise it does entirely depend on the bias of the reader or listener whether you perceive it to be true. Do you want to agree at least that if there was some incident involving refugees in Sweden which Trump referred to and Fox reported that it would be good to see some footage with the journalist standing there observing live.
 
I will chip in with Golhawk's previous post in mind - I have substantial dealings with Sweden and Swedes where over the past 3 years there has been a definite shift in opinion to the total unpreparedness the country has taken with immigaration from the Arab Spring countries. You probably cannot find a more liberal minded country in the world and the views of many, many "average Swedes" is definitely moving to the right.
The evidence is extremely clear in Southern Sweden with particular reference to how Malmo and Lund have developed "no go areas" for "traditional Swedes". The problem has reached such a level that the borders between Denmark and Sweden are now much more regularly controlled with the rail link completely checked.

Whilst there were no problems of significant note over the weekend, the general erosion of "Swedishness" is very real in the South.
 
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YorkshireHoopster said:
That's the problem isn't it? Personally I would prefer not to congratulate Trump, Fox News or any other journalist when they report without verifying the facts. Just because they choose to advocate their own political beliefs does not make it right. Otherwise it does entirely depend on the bias of the reader or listener whether you perceive it to be true. Do you want to agree at least that if there was some incident involving refugees in Sweden which Trump referred to and Fox reported that it would be good to see some footage with the journalist standing there observing live.
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I'm not sure I understand the question in your last sentence. If there was a rape of disabled women, it's unlikely a journalist would have been nearby observing. As you'll have seen from [HASHTAG]#8705[/HASHTAG], The Independent reported this, so it's not just Trump and Fox - there was undoubtedly an incident of some kind. The authorities including the police seem to be hushing it up, presumably so that public order may be maintained. That tactic is a double edged sword.
 
danishqp said:
I will chip in with Golhawk's previous post in mind - I have substantial dealings with Sweden and Swedes where over the past 3 years there has been a definite shift in opinion to the total unpreparedness the country has taken with immigaration from the Arab Spring countries. You probably cannot find a more liberal minded country in the world and the views of many, many "average Swedes" is definitely moving to the right.
The evidence is extremely clear in Southern Sweden with particular reference to how Malmo and Lund have developed "no go areas" for "traditional Swedes". The problem has reached such a level that the borders between Denmark and Sweden are now much more regularly controlled with the rail link completely checked.

Whilst there were no problems of significant note over the weekend, the general erosion of "Swedishness" is very real in the South.
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Spot on Danish
Agree people can 'Yoghurt knit' all they like in their Utopian BS world and how we all live in harmony but in the real World, there are 'Wrong uns' who will always ruin things. I cannot comment on Trumpton because I didn't really watch the news over the weekend. But I can tell you that I watched an interesting News/documentary on Sweeden and how after letting in many Refugees/Immigrants the Swedish people are P'd with how immigrants are acting. 'No go areas' which they never had before. Groups not wanting to mix with the Swedish people and a rise in radicalization all for giving people a chance of a new life.....yeah thanks for that. Sweden/Denmark have always been very liberal and open to people of all races but when you get freaks taking advantage of that, then you can understand why people are turning to the right. This is something that is happening all over Europe.
 
danishqp said:
I will chip in with Golhawk's previous post in mind - I have substantial dealings with Sweden and Swedes where over the past 3 years there has been a definite shift in opinion to the total unpreparedness the country has taken with immigaration from the Arab Spring countries. You probably cannot find a more liberal minded country in the world and the views of many, many "average Swedes" is definitely moving to the right.
The evidence is extremely clear in Southern Sweden with particular reference to how Malmo and Lund have developed "no go areas" for "traditional Swedes". The problem has reached such a level that the borders between Denmark and Sweden are now much more regularly controlled with the rail link completely checked.

Whilst there were no problems of significant note over the weekend, the general erosion of "Swedishness" is very real in the South.
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This is spot on and is backed up by one of my step daughters who lives in Sweden.
 
danishqp said:
I will chip in with Golhawk's previous post in mind - I have substantial dealings with Sweden and Swedes where over the past 3 years there has been a definite shift in opinion to the total unpreparedness the country has taken with immigaration from the Arab Spring countries. You probably cannot find a more liberal minded country in the world and the views of many, many "average Swedes" is definitely moving to the right.
The evidence is extremely clear in Southern Sweden with particular reference to how Malmo and Lund have developed "no go areas" for "traditional Swedes". The problem has reached such a level that the borders between Denmark and Sweden are now much more regularly controlled with the rail link completely checked.

Whilst there were no problems of significant note over the weekend, the general erosion of "Swedishness" is very real in the South.
Click to expand...

It is simply a clash of cultures which in an 'enlightened' country such as Sweden will never be able to assimilate people whose beliefs are totally at odds with those of their hosts. It is the same in this country where the failure of certain migrants to fully integrate has fuelled the resentment of people who find themselves becoming the minority in their own towns. A problem that will take some solving...
 
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Sooperhoop said:
It is simply a clash of cultures which in an 'enlightened' country such as Sweden will never be able to assimilate people whose beliefs are totally at odds with those of their hosts. It is the same in this country where the failure of certain migrants to fully integrate has fuelled the resentment of people who find themselves becoming the minority in their own towns. A problem that will take some solving...
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Hence the Brexit vote winning.
 
bobmid said:
Hence the Brexit vote winning.
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The people who are struggling to assimulate into European society all over the continent are not other Europeans but people from Africa, Middle East and Asia. Brexit or no Brexit will not change this one iota.
 
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