Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Your faith in your government is touching. Did you believe Blair about WMDs?

Stroller unlike you I am not blinded. You are like a die-hard lefty who will never say anything good about another person or party. You never say anything positive about Brexit even when things are positive. You never say anything positive about the Tories. You are A Corbyn lover and will never go against him even when time and time again he makes himself look like a muppet.
Now you are taking a stance against the government because they are Tory; Your dislike for them blinds your judgment. You will be wrong like in the past. Russia and Putin will be proven guilty at some point and I bet you will still try to defend him, that's you.

On the WMD/Iraq thing I watched Colin Powell discuss this at the UN and after his amature address I thought something was wrong. I said at the time that we needed to make sure they had them however Blair and his warmongering croonies decided to lie to the public and give Bush his war. A war that I was against because I believed that our forces were ill equiped (which they were). I will never forgive Geoff Hoon or Blair for causing the deaths of British soldiers not to mention the thousands of Iraqi civilians.
I may be a Tory and a Brextard but I am honest enough to say when I am unhappy with my party or say things are good from oppersition, sadly not all are like me.

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

When the evidence shows that Russia is behind this then you support your leader. They would not have said this unless 100%. They have the proof and are going through the right channels.

If they have the proof, then fine, act accordingly. What is the proof?

 

[ELLERS]

Wow, they really are mass debating in those last two pics...

This picture has been flooding Facebook and social media trying to put down MP's yet they are are fake and 2 things give the pictures away.

 

[ELLERS]

If they have the proof, then fine, act accordingly. What is the proof?

Woody they have the proof but are playing this the right way.

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

Woody they have the proof but are playing this the right way.

That may ultimately prove to be true, but how do you know?

 

[ELLERS]

That may ultimately prove to be true, but how do you know?

Because I look at the evidence and make a decision based on that.

Nerve agent developed in Russia. (it's regulated so it doesn't come from anywhere else).
Putin said he would kill all traitors and the victims were Russian.
Putin has a history of using horrid methods to kill someone.
Both the UK/US have now examined the samples and concluded that it came from Russia. Germany/France have now said the same (last 10 mins).
Russian defectors have said Putin was behind this.

Now rather than defending Putin you tell me who either did this or why he is not the Prime suspect?

 

[colognehornet]

Because I look at the evidence and make a decision based on that.

Nerve agent developed in Russia. (it's regulated so it doesn't come from anywhere else).
Putin said he would kill all traitors and the victims were Russian.
Putin has a history of using horrid methods to kill someone.
Both the UK/US have now examined the samples and concluded that it came from Russia. Germany/France have now said the same (last 10 mins).
Russian defectors have said Putin was behind this.

Now rather than defending Putin you tell me who either did this or why he is not the Prime suspect?

The nerve agent was developed in the USSR - actually their largest production was in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, around 40 years ago. Several other countries have produced this, and the Russians have themselves admitted that they were unable, at the break up of the USSR to prevent it reaching the black market. All of the individual chemicals are, themselves, harmless (and obtainable) but the mixture produces a deadly reaction - know the recipe, and you have the product. You cannot say with certainty that the mixture used came from Russia. How is it that you apparently 'know' that there is evidence, where so many others don't ? What our government has done is to effectively point the finger and say 'prove you didn't do it' - a situation unknown in any law court in the World. They are also denying the Russians samples of the actual material used - why ?

 

[Stroller]

Stroller unlike you I am not blinded. You are like a die-hard lefty who will never say anything good about another person or party. You never say anything positive about Brexit even when things are positive. You never say anything positive about the Tories. You are A Corbyn lover and will never go against him even when time and time again he makes himself look like a muppet.
Now you are taking a stance against the government because they are Tory; Your dislike for them blinds your judgment. You will be wrong like in the past. Russia and Putin will be proven guilty at some point and I bet you will still try to defend him, that's you.

On the WMD/Iraq thing I watched Colin Powell discuss this at the UN and after his amature address I thought something was wrong. I said at the time that we needed to make sure they had them however Blair and his warmongering croonies decided to lie to the public and give Bush his war. A war that I was against because I believed that our forces were ill equiped (which they were). I will never forgive Geoff Hoon or Blair for causing the deaths of British soldiers not to mention the thousands of Iraqi civilians.
I may be a Tory and a Brextard but I am honest enough to say when I am unhappy with my party or say things are good from oppersition, sadly not all are like me.

You are amusing Ellers, in a childlike kind of way. No one is defending Putin, all some are saying is where is the proof that he was responsible.

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

Because I look at the evidence and make a decision based on that.

Nerve agent developed in Russia. (it's regulated so it doesn't come from anywhere else).
Putin said he would kill all traitors and the victims were Russian.
Putin has a history of using horrid methods to kill someone.
Both the UK/US have now examined the samples and concluded that it came from Russia. Germany/France have now said the same (last 10 mins).
Russian defectors have said Putin was behind this.

Now rather than defending Putin you tell me who either did this or why he is not the Prime suspect?

I'm not defending Putin. I'm holding back from jumping on the bandwagon until proof is discovered. It may be that no absolute proof is ever found, but we operate on an innocent until proven guilty basis. I accept that we, the masses, probably very rarely are able to discover all sorts of truths, such is the nature of being governed by powerful, ruthless gangs.

Ultimately, I find the whole notion of governance, control, mainstream media, ridiculous wealth and inequality absurd. It's theatre, one of numerous possible ways of existing on this spinning rock.

What I am pretty sure of is that our leaders don't give a **** about us. Power is far more important than a society based on morality and equality, regardless of who's in power.

 

[ELLERS]

The nerve agent was developed in the USSR - actually their largest production was in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, around 40 years ago. Several other countries have produced this, and the Russians have themselves admitted that they were unable, at the break up of the USSR to prevent it reaching the black market. All of the individual chemicals are, themselves, harmless (and obtainable) but the mixture produces a deadly reaction - know the recipe, and you have the product. You cannot say with certainty that the mixture used came from Russia. How is it that you apparently 'know' that there is evidence, where so many others don't ? What our government has done is to effectively point the finger and say 'prove you didn't do it' - a situation unknown in any law court in the World. They are also denying the Russians samples of the actual material used - why ?

Comrade Cologne You need to try and make it less obvious that you are a Putin sympathizer.

 

[ELLERS]

You are amusing Ellers, in a childlike kind of way. No one is defending Putin, all some are saying is where is the proof that he was responsible.

Hit a nerve strolls? (pardon the pun)

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

Comrade Cologne You need to try and make it less obvious that you are a Putin sympathizer.

I don't understand responses like this. It's all a bit playground. What cologne says is balanced, given the information fed to us.

 

[Stroller]

I don't understand responses like this. It's all a bit playground. What cologne says is balanced, given the information fed to us.

Indeed.

 

[colognehornet]

Comrade Cologne You need to try and make it less obvious that you are a Putin sympathizer.

No need for the sly adjectives Ellers. Novichok was only produced at one site in the USSR. that being in the present Uzbekistan - and it was dismantled and decontaminated in 1999 by experts from the USA. There was no other source of it in the country. Are we talking about traces of it which were secretly preserved from 1999 - or is someone, somewhere, producing it now ? If Putin had sanctioned this, and the methods used, then it would be a visiting card to the World saying 'We are still producing illegal chemical substances' - does this appear likely ?

 

[ELLERS]

The reason I am now dismissing your posts chaps with sarcasm is because you seem to have agenda's. Cologne has ignored all the evidence coming in and defend Putin at every chance. Stroller has done his usual anti-government stance. Only Woody has come remotely near giving a decent response.

As I type more and more evidence is coming in and more countries are getting on board. What should also point at Russian is their stance and how they are acting. As one Russian spokesman said, the Putin regime are being contemptuous to the Uk

Even the finished Comrade Corbyn is live on TV doing his usual backtracking and now saying 'the evidence points to Russia' and he supports the Government

 

[ELLERS]

I will tell you what is wrong with these fake pictures. The thing that is missing from the first 6 pictures is not MPs but the clerks and deputies that sit in front of the speaker of the house. You cannot debate without them being there. So these are probably before the debate has started or after and not during.
Also notice that there is no government spokesman at the despatch box or opposition in pic 2.
I cannot believe people believe this rubbish.
MP's get enough stick with crap like this going about

You must log in or register to see images

 

[ELLERS]

You must log in or register to see images

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Because I look at the evidence and make a decision based on that.

Nerve agent developed in Russia. (it's regulated so it doesn't come from anywhere else).
Putin said he would kill all traitors and the victims were Russian.
Putin has a history of using horrid methods to kill someone.
Both the UK/US have now examined the samples and concluded that it came from Russia. Germany/France have now said the same (last 10 mins).
Russian defectors have said Putin was behind this.

Now rather than defending Putin you tell me who either did this or why he is not the Prime suspect?

Add to that Russian obfuscation over the Litvinenko murder investigation. It's clear this was a Russian state sponsored assassination and there is no doubt in Marina Litvinenko's mind, who has her ear close to the Russian ground.

Add also the fact that it is known Russia is interfering in Western elections, the worldwide web, flexing muscles with the military, invading parts of Georgia and Ukraine, etc

In cases like the recent poisoning in Salisbury, and indeed in murders or attempted murders generally, there is not always CCTV evidence or DNA. We have no photo of a Russian bloke in a furry hat holding a bottle called "POISON". You have to compile the circumstantial evidence to make the case. There's a huge amount of circumstantial evidence against Russia and massive motives, namely revenge and deterrent. And there are no other suspects.

 

[ELLERS]

It's clear this was a Russian state sponsored assassination

Exactly Goldie. I find it hard to believe that some cannot see this. They are saying it's not Russia/Putin yet cannot say who it is?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Exactly Goldie. I find it hard to believe that some cannot see this. They are saying it's not Russia/Putin yet cannot say who it is?

It doesn't fit the agenda of Jeremy Corbin or Seamus Milne. They'll always deny what's clear to the rest of us. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it almost certainly is a bleedin' duck!

Part of the Russian ambassador's speech to the UN Security Council interested me. There were the usual bland denials, but then he said - what right have the UK got to criticise Russian when they themselves assassinate people using drones. For me, that was really telling. That's the way Russia looks at this - they are justified in going after those they regard as traitors, and can deal with them in their own way.