Off Topic The Politics Thread

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Better still…..why not have a one off tax for the Uber rich ? (Not our Uber of course)

Well I think we know there is no chance of that, a bunch of them are still too busy laughing their tits off that they got government contracts they didn’t need to complete. All it took was a donation.
 

Except you can't judge figures during the Silly Season. Any worthwhile guests were hard to come by during August - Farage even had to make do with the leader of the Monster Raving Loony Party.

But last night, he had a number of American commentators talking about the Biden car crash and long term damage to UK/US relations, and it was straight talking and fascinating.

Parliament is back. The new business year began yesterday. The next weeks will be the time to judge the main news outlets and their viewing figures
 
I just had a brainwave. Instead of increasing National Insurance to pay for social care, why don't we use the £350m a day Brexit savings?

Must pass this on to Boris Johnson.
Just think of the billions wasted on that 'world beating' track and trace system, the millions passed on to donors for useless ppe. When will the people of this country wake up to whats happening right under their noses. This charlatan of a PM has no interest in this country or the people who reside in it, hes all about himself and his buddies. Think we need to start applying to other countries for aid rather than giving it out or hope of an invasion to end this dictatorship!
 
And just as infuriating is having a spineless opposition offering little to nothing as an alternative!

Starmer will come under pressure from within Labour to back Andy Burnham's proposal for a Wealth Tax. He should do just that.
 
Was interested to guage reaction to the social care announcement on here but relatively muted reaction across the board. I wonder if that's representative across the country.

I have mixed feelings. Selfishly, as I have parents/grandparents who all own property in the south of England, I could conceivably benefit significantly from these proposals at some point.

On the other hand, I'd be absolutely livid if I was a renter, without prospect of inheritance which has now been protected, earning an average salary. I'm guessing there are a lot of under 40s in this boat who are now paying more tax to protect the inheritance of the rich. Especially infuriating for people in this situation to know that there will be 60 year olds who have drawn a pension, still earning six figures, not impacted by the NIC rise. And Govt didn't choose to look at other measures like means testing winter fuel payments, free TV licensing, free travel for over 60s etc, or an increase to CGT.

From a 'veil of ignorance' perspective, this probably isn't the way I'd choose to raise the finance, but it's smart politically as 20/30 and increasingly 40 year olds don't vote Tory so it doesn't matter if they are taxed more to pay for the grey voters social care.

That said, I'm impressed Johnson has actually stepped up to try and tackle a very thorny issue. As I've made clear, I have an extremely low opinion of him but this is the first time (as PM) I can remember when he's done something that appears to be an attempt to do something proactive and necessary rather than just looking to serve his own interests.

Interesting to see how this one goes down with the public. Also a tricky one for Lab to respond to, as they don't want to look like they are opposing more money for the NHS, but equally probably don't like what looks like a rather regressive tax rise.
 
Because a one off tax won’t cover the costs which will continue, and continue rising, permanently. The tax would need to go on forever as well. Fine by me, but the sums involved would need an interesting definition of ‘Uber rich’, ie ‘earning a bit over the average’. The share dividend stuff presumably meets with your approval? Good on the surface for getting stuff from fat cats, but not so great for all those self employed who pay themselves in dividends from sole trader companies. Who will also be paying on the salaries they pay themselves. A lot of these are not what I would describe as ‘rich’.

It’s not clear to me whether this 1.25% rise in NI, which is then going to be turned into a new payroll tax, is strictly ringfenced for health and social care, or whether, like current NI, it just goes into government coffers. Either way it’s not enough, especially as it seems to be for making up shortfalls in NHS funding not just social care. Anything given to local government to spend on social care is at risk because the central government is cutting central funding with its other hand, while demanding more from education etc, plus some local authorities are very poorly run and in huge debt.

The Germans dealt with this, in a cross party agreement, twenty years ago as they saw the problems that we have known about for decades and did something about it - a 2.5% ringfenced social care tax on income, which is also intergeneration-ally fairer because it’s also levied on those who have retired on generous pensions - which are of course income (Tories can’t do this because they rely on the grey vote. They can relax the triple lock this year because COVID and the furlough scheme have skewed the figures on wage rises in a bizarre way). They also centralised the running of social care because local government couldn’t keep up with changes. Health is covered by other equitable insurance schemes. It’s not perfect but it’s vaguely progressive and a bit fairer, it’s a collective insurance system where the risk is pooled ( Half of the over 60s in the U.K. never access any kind of social care, and only 10% end up costing more than £100k, it’s just hard to tell in advance who will need what) I don’t know why we didn’t just copy them. Presumably because they are foreign, and our government has ‘not invented here’ syndrome.

This is better than the existing non system, but an all party approach so we don’t get endless fiddling with it, would have helped. And a realisation that the tax will need to go up.

In fairness, a 2.5% income tax rise is pretty steep. We'd be pushing the highest rates of income tax up towards 47.5% (or 62.5% in certain circumstances) which is higher than what Germany pay as I understand it. I'd be surprised if we'd even need an increase that big.
 
In fairness, a 2.5% income tax rise is pretty steep. We'd be pushing the highest rates of income tax up towards 47.5% (or 62.5% in certain circumstances) which is higher than what Germany pay as I understand it. I'd be surprised if we'd even need an increase that big.
The total tax rate, on top of income tax, is higher in Germany, and many other European countries, but the quality and accessibility of services is better. You get what you pay for, I suppose.

Bit out of date, but some info
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/27/tax-britons-pay-europe-australia-us

Interesting to see if the long time before the next election means that those low tax loving Tory voters will have forgiven them by then. In the absence (from what I have seen, and to be honest I’m not looking hard) of any alternative ideas from the other parties, at least they are trying something. Do people realise that ‘social care’ only includes the actual care given at home and in residential homes, not the cost of accommodation?
 
The total tax rate, on top of income tax, is higher in Germany, and many other European countries, but the quality and accessibility of services is better. You get what you pay for, I suppose.

Bit out of date, but some info
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/27/tax-britons-pay-europe-australia-us

Interesting to see if the long time before the next election means that those low tax loving Tory voters will have forgiven them by then. In the absence (from what I have seen, and to be honest I’m not looking hard) of any alternative ideas from the other parties, at least they are trying something. Do people realise that ‘social care’ only includes the actual care given at home and in residential homes, not the cost of accommodation?

54!t, no I didn't realise that about social care. If assumed this was to cover the cost of accomodation too. That's rubbish.

The way I read your link higher earners here pay more in the UK, which is the most relevant segment given they account for a vastly disproportionate amount of income tax (naturally and rightly).
 
…….On the other hand, I'd be absolutely livid if I was a renter, without prospect of inheritance which has now been protected, earning an average salary. I'm guessing there are a lot of under 40s in this boat who are now paying more tax to protect the inheritance of the rich. Especially infuriating for people in this situation to know that there will be 60 year olds who have drawn a pension, still earning six figures, not impacted by the NIC rise. And Govt didn't choose to look at other measures like means testing winter fuel payments, free TV licensing, free travel for over 60s etc, or an increase to CGT.
.
My son (25) came home from worked rather chuffed today, had a review after his first few months, got glowing feedback and a £500 rise, with a promise of more to come. Then I told him that will be handy to pay the tax for my social care, and hip operation……


Most of this ‘extra’ money will be going to the NHS of course.
 
Suppose the UK could always do what the Government of the Day did here during the economic crash in 2008 and introduce a "temporary" Universal Social Charge charged on all income except pensions. The only problem we have is that the "temporary" charge is still in place 13 years later.........

Rates charged for 2021

Standard rates and thresholds of USC for 2021
2021 Rate
First €12,012....... 0.5%
Next €8,675......... 2%
Next €49,357....... 4.5%
Balance......... 8%

There are a few exemptions but not many escape this charge.........

Don't believe everything you read about Ireland being a low tax country........
 
thats ok then


You must log in or register to see images


Politics For All

@PoliticsForAlI
· 9h
You must log in or register to see images
You must log in or register to see images
| BREAKING: Boris Johnson says the Taliban have changed

Via
@thetimes