Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

I won't shed a tear for the matador that has been gored to death in Spain. Bull fighting is now on the increase in Spain, and apparently it's on Spanish TV increasingly (the bullfight at which the matador died was being shown on live TV).

There is never a reprieve for the bull, even for one that sticks one of its torturers. Spaniards love this ritual slaughter and go in great numbers. I've no wish to be associated with such a vile practice, or the country that carries it out.

So you never go to Spain? Would you recommend that we don't have any trade or diplomatic relations with them? Or is Brexit enough?

Agree no sympathy for the matador though, or the other one who was gored through the scrotum this weekend. Part of the job description.

I don't get bullfighting, it would be good if it didn't exist, but I am sure that there are plenty of examples of pain inflicted on animals to get bits of their flesh on our plates much closer to home. Can't say I let that bother me, though I do look at the source of meat that I buy, especially chicken and pork, because I don't think factory farming has particularly tasty results.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Rumour on the street is that Leadsom has quit - must've been my above critique

BBC reporting that she is intending to go but no announcement as yet. I'm not in favour of foxhunting returning. There are some pursuits that are traditional British pastimes and there are some that should be consigned to medieval history. Foxhunting is the latter imo

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

So you never go to Spain? Would you recommend that we don't have any trade or diplomatic relations with them? Or is Brexit enough?

Agree no sympathy for the matador though, or the other one who was gored through the scrotum this weekend. Part of the job description.

I don't get bullfighting, it would be good if it didn't exist, but I am sure that there are plenty of examples of pain inflicted on animals to get bits of their flesh on our plates much closer to home. Can't say I let that bother me, though I do look at the source of meat that I buy, especially chicken and pork, because I don't think factory farming has particularly tasty results.

Bullfighting as actually making a comeback in Spain, so no, I have no desire to go to Spain. I'd rather go and support the Greeks.

The EU does seem immune to animal cruelty. I think it was Joanna Lumley who voted Brexit because of the dreadful journeys calves and lambs were forced to make in appalling conditions from North Europe to their place of slaughter in the south.

There's much that needs to be improved here in the UK - ban halal and the like for a start.

 

[Stroller]

BBC reporting that she is intending to go but no announcement as yet. I'm not in favour of foxhunting returning. There are some pursuits that are traditional British pastimes and there are some that should be consigned to medieval history. Foxhunting is the latter imo

Teresa May is pro fox hunting too, isn't she?

By the way, I just googled her and found this picture. She's not aged well has she?

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[sb_73]

Bullfighting as actually making a comeback in Spain, so no, I have no desire to go to Spain. I'd rather go and support the Greeks.

The EU does seem immune to animal cruelty. I think it was Joanna Lumley who voted Brexit because of the dreadful journeys calves and lambs were forced to make in appalling conditions from North Europe to their place of slaughter in the south.

There's much that needs to be improved here in the UK - ban halal and the like for a start.

Halal and Kosher abattoirs are horrible places for barbaric reasons.

Just seen the Leadsom stuff, insider reporting that 'she can't take the level of abuse'. Clearly not got the minerals to be PM then, so far she's brought it all on herself. Interesting that unlike May she only published 1 year of tax returns (May did 4, possibly very cleverly), conveniently avoiding damaging but doubtless legal stuff from her family buy to let company which she stepped down from in 2014. Every single leading Brexiter crashed and burned now.

Does this mean Dave will miss his trip to China in September? What a shame. At least we can get on with it now.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Teresa May is pro fox hunting too, isn't she?

By the way, I just googled her and found this picture. She's not aged well has she?

You must log in or register to see images

I think you're right, she does, Strolls. Hopefully she'll put it so far on the back burner, no will know it's there

As to the picture, it just shows the strain infertility treatment can place on the female body

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

At least we can get on with it now.

This is a real advantage, if the rumours about Leadsom are true. As to the Brexiteers, I expect Gove to get a leading role. Boris perhaps not, since he and Theresa have not seen eye to eye since the water cannon thing. Grayling, Davis, Patel will all be in with a shout too.

 

[sb_73]

This is a real advantage, if the rumours about Leadsom are true. As to the Brexiteers, I expect Gove to get a leading role. Boris perhaps not, since he and Theresa have not seen eye to eye since the water cannon thing. Grayling, Davis, Patel will all be in with a shout too.

The Tories might bump Gove up as the distant third placer so they can have a competition I suppose. Hope not though. Might see a little bump up to the £ if May is crowned today.

Re the bullfighting stuff, just read in the Times that interest is in sharp decline amongst the young in Spain, and the number of bull related events has fallen from about 4,000 a year to well under 2,000 since 2008. Any luck it will die a natural death.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

The Tories might bump Gove up as the distant third placer so they can have a competition I suppose. Hope not though. Might see a little bump up to the £ if May is crowned today.

Hopefully Gove would do the noble thing...and accept an offer of Home Secretary in a May Government rather than run and compete

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Re the bullfighting stuff, just read in the Times that interest is in sharp decline amongst the young in Spain, and the number of bull related events has fallen from about 4,000 a year to well under 2,000 since 2008. Any luck it will die a natural death.

The running of the bulls, Pamplona and many other venues, is incredibly popular.

In the South of France, bulls are celebrities and their arrival in a town for the "fight" is feted. Only the matadors take risks, and the bulls are unharmed

 

[sb_73]

Meanwhile a long way away something possibly equally momentous is happening. Looks like Japanese PM Abe is on the way to two thirds majorities in both Houses of Parliament as a result of elections this weekend, giving him the power to change the constitution. Which is what he wants to do, specifically dumping the 'peace clause' which prohibits Japan from joining wars or keeping any military capacity other than for self defence. On one hand this would mean that there is someone other than the US to stand up to Chinese bullying in the Far East, on the other it would massively increase instability, and would likely be very divisive within Japan. Very interesting times indeed.

Leadsom gone, confirmed. The reasons she gave were immediately apparent at the conclusion of the MPs vote last week. If it has taken her this long to see the bleedin' obvious, very good job indeed that's she's given up.

 

[TheBigDipper]

Just watched Ms Leadsom pull out. She's realised that (under our representative-based system) a leader cannot be successful without the support of MPs - no matter how much grassroots party support they have. That's something that a PR system would change, of course. Mr Corbyn would do well to learn from Ms Leadsom whilst there is still a party called "Labour" to form an opposition.

I don't believe they have to let Gove run as her subsitute. I think that's down to the 1922 Committee. Gove would have the same problems that Leadsom would have faced and Corbyn still does (for now). They can just give it to May.

So, business as usual. One party, grasping power with all its might.

 

[Chaz]

I'm expecting the 1922 Committee to announce that she will take the reins unopposed. There's plenty of precedent (including when Brown took over from Bliar, so Labour can hardly complain, least of all at the moment) and the overwhelming majority support she has amongst MPs will clearly give the committee the assent it needs to announce her appointment unopposed.

 

[Chaz]

Just watched Ms Leadsom pull out. She's realised that (under our representative-based system) a leader cannot be successful without the support of MPs - no matter how much grassroots party support they have. That's something that a PR system would change, of course. Mr Corbyn would do well to learn from Ms Leadsom whilst there is still a party called "Labour" to form an opposition.

I don't believe they have to let Gove run as her subsitute. I think that's down to the 1922 Committee. Gove would have the same problems that Leadsom would have faced and Corbyn still does (for now). They can just give it to May.

So, business as usual. One party, grasping power with all its might.

It's far more that she was naive enough to think she could run for the top job and not have her life and particularly her work and financial dealings scrutinised - as everyone else in her position has had. And after her foot-in-mouth statement about motherhood the other day- which was accurately reported - she showed a level of incompetence that would have screwed both her and us had she won the ballot.

 

[TheBigDipper]

It's far more that she was naive enough to think she could run for the top job and not have her life and particularly her work and financial dealings scrutinised - as everyone else in her position has had. And after her foot-in-mouth statement about motherhood the other day- which was accurately reported - she showed a level of incompetence that would have screwed both her and us had she won the ballot.

I don't disagree with what you say at all, but still stand by my point as well. She didn't have the support of enough MPs. If the grassroots had voted her in, she wouldn't always have the support in Parliament. Mr Cameron can probably explain in great detail the compromises and odd jumps you sometimes have to make to keep all your MPs onside when your party is, in fact, comprised of strong blocs of interest sometimes pulling in opposite directions.

 

[TootingExcess]

I'm expecting the 1922 Committee to announce that she will take the reins unopposed. There's plenty of precedent (including when Brown took over from Bliar, so Labour can hardly complain, least of all at the moment) and the overwhelming majority support she has amongst MPs will clearly give the committee the assent it needs to announce her appointment unopposed.

What if you voted Tory because Cameron wanted to stay in the EU and given the importance of the UK being in the single market, you agreed with this mandate. The Brexit vote never mentioned options of leaving - nor did their original manifesto in 2015. I don't think Brown/Blair or Thatcher/Major are precedents - unless May is going to ignore the referendum and carry on as if nothing has happened.

All the parties should have to set out in their manifestos their leaving position - and take it to the population. This is where the Head of State should intervene and dissolve parliament, its not about turning over the result of the ref, but implementing it.

Given the state of the opposition May would probably improve her majority anyway.

 

[durbar2003]

Does this mean that she will become PM almost immediately? (and spoil Cameron's planed farewell trip)

 

[sb_73]

What if you voted Tory because Cameron wanted to stay in the EU and given the importance of the UK being in the single market, you agreed with this mandate. The Brexit vote never mentioned options of leaving - nor did their original manifesto in 2015. I don't think Brown/Blair or Thatcher/Major are precedents - unless May is going to ignore the referendum and carry on as if nothing has happened.

All the parties should have to set out in their manifestos their leaving position - and take it to the population. This is where the Head of State should intervene and dissolve parliament, its not about turning over the result of the ref, but implementing it.

Given the state of the opposition May would probably improve her majority anyway.

It makes huge tactical sense for the Tories to have an election soon, they would expect to win easily, except in Scotland. But it would slow down the Brexit stuff once again and probably be very divisive in the country, and we've had enough of that. I think May has said she won't have one as well.

Surely all the parties' manifestos except UKIP and SNP would read ' we didn't want to leave but will reluctantly carry out the result of the referendum'? Anybody who promised staying in the Single Market and accepting freedom of movement and paying the EU would be doomed, I assume.

 

[Chaz]

What if you voted Tory because Cameron wanted to stay in the EU and given the importance of the UK being in the single market, you agreed with this mandate. The Brexit vote never mentioned options of leaving - nor did their original manifesto in 2015. I don't think Brown/Blair or Thatcher/Major are precedents - unless May is going to ignore the referendum and carry on as if nothing has happened.

All the parties should have to set out in their manifestos their leaving position - and take it to the population. This is where the Head of State should intervene and dissolve parliament, its not about turning over the result of the ref, but implementing it.

Given the state of the opposition May would probably improve her majority anyway.

The referendum isn't legally binding, and on that point alone, none of the process you outline would happen. But May has said she'll abide by the referendum result. which she should. And I say that as someone who votes Conservative and who strongly thinks that leaving the EU is wrong.

 

[TheBigDipper]

The referendum isn't legally binding, and on that point alone, none of the process you outline would happen. But May has said she'll abide by the referendum result. which she should. And I say that as someone who votes Conservative and who strongly thinks that leaving the EU is wrong.

Indeed. May (presumably) is committed to presenting this to Parliament for approval. Although there are some MPs who will vote against the invocation of Article 50, there'll be a big enough majority for it to be passed and executed. Then the process of extracting ourselves can start. This should not be drawn out any longer than it has to.