Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
It’s fair to say though that when the budget across the justice system is slashed repeatedly in real terms it’s likely to lead to an increase in mistakes, cutting corners and wrong judgements.

Probably true, but in serious cases such as deportation, the defendant would get legal aid which is effectively unlimited funds.

It's cases where legal aid no longer applies that would be affected by the cuts
 
Good one from Corbyn at PMQs today....

Mr Corbyn cited a "young black boy who came to the UK aged five and is now being deported after serving time for a drugs offence."

Taking aim at the Prime Minister, who has openly admitted taking cocaine when he was 19, the Labour leader said: "If there was a case of a young white boy, with blonde hair, who later dabbled in class A drugs, and conspired with a friend to beat up a journalist, would he deport that boy?

"Or, is it one rule for young black boys from the Caribbean and another for white boys from the United States."
 
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can these be kicked out now as well



EU rules stopped Britain deporting murderers, rapists and violent criminals

Top row, from left: Andrzej Stankiewicz, Mantas Baibokas, Joao Pedro Correie Lopes, Kingsley Chukwudinma Nwanekwu and Daha Essa. Bottom row, from left: Jordan Epee Homb, Learco Chindamo, Arqr Wazny, Darius Kersys and Theresa Rafacz
6 June 2016 • 10:00pm
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Ben Riley-Smith
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Murderers, rapists and violent offenders from across Europe have been able to remain in Britain after their crimes, the Justice Minister will say on Tuesday as he reveals a dossier of 50 offenders who have used EU rules to avoid deportation.

Dominic Raab, who works closely with Michael Gove in the Justice department, said that British families are “at risk” because European courts are refusing to allow UK judges to deport dangerous and violent criminals back to EU countries.

Mr Raab has compiled a dossier of the 50 most serious offenders who have been allowed to remain in the UK because of Brussels red tape. As justice minister, Mr Raab has had first-hand experience of many of the cases the UK has seen thwarted.

<img class="responsive lazy-image__img article-body-image-image" src="/content/dam/news/2016/04/26/Dominic_Raab_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq0UYSYIEI_h2PbA_Phk_s6p1V6VWCvyBLhJf31NTkdcc.jpg?imwidth=480" alt="Dominic Raab"/>
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Justice minster Dominic Raab works closely with Michael Gove Credit: EPA
His dossier includes an Italian man who stabbed a head teacher through the heart, a Polish woman who kicked her husband to death and a Romanian rapist who was given permanent residence in this country under the orders of the EU.

Mr Raab said: “This is yet more evidence of how EU membership makes us less safe. Free movement of people allows unelected judges in the rogue European Court to decide who we can and can't deport. This puts British families at risk.”

The list of offenders will fuel claims that Britain is hamstrung by EU freedom of movement rules and will only be able to deport violent convicts if the country backs a Brexit on June 23.

It came as:

  • A poll for this newspaper shows that the Remain and Leave campaigns are now neck-and-neck, on 48 per cent and 47 per cent of the vote respectively.
  • David Cameron warned that a Brexit would be like “putting a bomb” under the UK economy.
  • Dutch troops were deployed at ports across the country to check lorries after it emerged that in the first four months of 2016 almost 500 illegal migrants have been stopped attempting to get to Britain - as many as were apprehended in the whole of 2015.
  • Chris Grayling, the Eurosceptic Cabinet minister, has written to Sir Jeremy Heywood, Britain’s most senior civil servant, calling on him to prevent the Bank of England and organisations like the IMF intervening in the referendum debate.
  • Spread-betting firm IG said that more money is now being traded on a Brexit vote than a Remain vote.
  • Business Secretary Sajid Javid and Peter Mandelson, the former Labour Cabinet minister, will say on Tuesday that a British firms could face a £34.4 billion "export tax" on trade with the EU if the country votes Leave.
A report last week warned that 5,789 criminals from overseas are free to walk the UK's streets - the highest number since 2012 – because they are protected under EU human rights laws.

Mr Gove on Monday warned that the EU’s lack of border controls on the continent “actively abets terrorism”.

"One of the things that we can do if we else the European Union is control our borders and also control who we deport,” Mr Gove said.

“At the moment, unfortunately, the European law, which the European Court of Justice takes, has prevented us from getting rid of some people who are terrorists, or criminals who have been supporting terrorists.”








EU referendum in one word: are you Team Cameron or Team Boris?
h





Under current British law, any foreigner who commits a “serious crime” or is sentenced to more than a year in jail qualifies for automatic deportation.

However if the convict is from the EU, that rule can be meaningless because of the bloc’s “freedom of movement” rules that allow migrants to live and work in any member state.

Research released by the Leave campaign has identified 50 cases – most occurring under Mr Cameron’s premiership – when attempts at deportation where blocked by EU law.

<img class="responsive lazy-image__img article-body-image-image" src="/content/dam/news/2016/06/06/split-chindamo-theresa_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqqVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT8.jpg?imwidth=480" alt="Learco Chindamo, left, and Theresa Rafacz"/>
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Learco Chindamo, left, and Theresa Rafacz were allowed to stay in Britain thanks to EU rules Credit: LONDON MEDIA/Alan Lewis
They include six EU nationals convicted of murder, five found guilty of sexual offences and thirteen locked up for drug dealing or similar crimes.

Am

ong the group who could not be deported is Learco Chindamo, an Italian citizen who murdered a head teacher who tried to break up a fight but could not be deported after his life sentence expired.

Another is Theresa Rafacz, a Polish woman jailed for killing her husband by repeatedly stamping on his head in a “gratuitous” attack but allowed to stay in Britain thanks to EU rules.

Many of the European Court decisions were linked to the fact convicts are only released by a parole board when incarceration is no longer “necessary” to protect voters – calling into question why they should be made to leave the UK.







What are the alternatives for Britain after voting for Brexit?
h
Speaking in the Commons, Sir Bill Cash, whose father was killed in Normandy during the Second World War, said that Britons who fought and died on D-Day did not do so to allow convicted EU national rapists, *****philes and drug dealers to remain in the country.

However, D-Day veteran and former head of the Army Lord Bramall condemned Sir Bill for using the Normandy landings to boost the Leave campaign.

He said: "As a veteran of D-Day I'm disgusted at the use of this battle by the Leave campaign.

"We fought to bring World War II to an end; and greater European cooperation rather than British isolationism has helped keep the peace in Europe.

"We should stay in Europe to solve common problems not scapegoat foreigners in the way that Vote Leave is doing."







What is the European Union and how does it work?
h
Iain Duncan Smith, the Eurosceptic former Cabinet minister, accused Lord Bramall of making a "sickening" allegation against Sir Bill.

Theresa May, the Home Secretary, admitted the Government needs to do more but said a record number of foreign offenders were deported last year.

And James Brokenshire, the immigration minister, insisted that the Prime Minister’s renegotiation with Brussels has made it easier for the UK to deport foreign criminals.

“The UK sought greater control over the deportation of foreign criminals in its EU renegotiation - and that's precisely what the Prime Minister’s deal delivered.

"The International Law Decision we secured means our ability to deport foreign criminals is strengthened, and it is now clear that the UK can take into account the full background of a criminal in a decision over whether to deport.”


ABOUT | The deportation of foreign criminals
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What does the law state?
Under current British law, any foreigner who commits a “serious crime” or is sentenced to more than a year in jail qualifies for automatic deportation.

What if the convict is from the EU?
If the convict is from the EU that rule grates against their right to live within any of the 28 member states, enshrined in freedom of movement rules.

Many of the European Court decisions were linked to the fact convicts are only released by a parole board when incarceration is no longer “necessary” to protect voters – calling into question why they should be made to leave the UK.

However Eurosceptics argued the bar for deporting EU nationals was far higher than citizens from other countries and said British ministers should be the ones making the decisions.

Which criminals have used EU rules to avoid deportation?
Among the group of 50 criminals who could not be deported is Learco Chindamo, an Italian citizen who murdered a head teacher who tried to break up a fight but could not be deported after his life sentence expired.

Another is Theresa Rafacz, a Polish woman jailed for killing her husband by repeatedly stamping on his head in a “gratuitous” attack but allowed to stay in Britain thanks to EU rules.
Sorry but it is categorically false to claim that EU citizens cannot be deported. In the year ending 2017 there had been 5,301 EU citizens deported by the UK. Even allowing for freedom of movement deportation is still allowed within the EU for reasons of public security or public policy - if someone is a danger to public safety they can be deported, regardless of how long they have been in the country. Length of residence tends to reduce the scope for this - if someone has been resident for over 10 years then the range of offences for which deportation can be applied becomes smaller - restricted to the more serious violent cases. Problems have arisen in the past because of the British government's interpretation of ''public security'' - they have tried to deport for such reasons as ''rough sleeping'' - needless to say the EU were not impressed by this interpretation.
 
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Who brought in the deportation laws

It shouldn't matter if you come from the US or the Caribbean
If you become eligible for deportation through your own actions then off you go
 
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british airways will make a killing deporting this lot in a few years

Home Office Bureaucrats Accused of Burying Report on Ethnicity of Grooming Gang Rapists
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West Yorkshire Police
Jack Montgomery7 Feb 20201,203
4:03
Home Office bureaucrats have been accused of burying a report on the ethnic background of grooming gang rapists announced in 2018.

The report was commissioned by Sajid Javid — then Home Secretary, now Chancellor of the Exchequer — in 2018, with the Pakistani-heritage Muslim MP saying it made him “feel angry” that such a disproportionate number of grooming gang rapists came from his community, and that they had “disgraced our heritage”.

The Home Office later said the review would remain internal, however, supposedly due to operational sensitivity, and Javid was accused of having essentially shelved it.

Now his successor as Home Secretary, Priti Patel, is reportedly being met with “obfuscation” and “given the run around” by departmental bureaucrats as she attempts to find out what has become of their investigation.



“I have no idea why, but it has consistently felt like Home Office officials deliberately avoid ministers clear instructions for research when it comes to grooming gangs,” commented Sarah Champion, a Labour MP who has pressed the issue of grooming gangs for some time, and was sacked from Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn’s shadow government for daring to say that “Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls.”

“The Home Office ministers and the former Home Secretary [Javid] have all stated to me that the department will carry out research into perpetrators of gang-related child sexual exploitation,” Champion said of the current impasse.

“Still we have nothing. It appears civil servants in the Home Office believe if they ignore requests into grooming gang data for long enough, ministers will just move on to a different topic.

“I think they might be shocked by the persistence of Priti Patel on this issue.”

Sources told the Huffington Post that Patel was “not best pleased” with officials in her department, who are seen as “not being completely upfront” about the issue. She is said to be insistent on seeing the results of the report for herself, even if they are not revealed to the public.

Independent research by think tank Quilliam has previously indicated that some 84 per cent of groomers are South Asian origin men.



“We were promised a review of sorts by the then home secretary and then when it didn’t surface, we were told it was for internal use only,” commented Nazir Afzal, a former Crown prosecutor who led some of the early cases against grooming gang when the authorities were finally forced to act on the scandal.

“Now it seems nobody can find it, he added.

“It’s victims that constantly get let down by the failures of those in authority.”

Afzal wants the report released because, in his view, its absence is being “exploited by the far right”.

Because of his background and work on grooming gang cases, Afzal is often wheeled out by the mainstream media outlets who neglected the issue for years as an authoritative voice ont the subject — but he has previously tried to play down the religious and ethnic dimensions of the large-scale sexual exploitation of overwhelmingly non-Muslim, usually white girls by overwhelmingly Mulsim, usually Pakistani-origin men as non-existent or minimal.

In 2014 he suggested that while the ethnic profile of victims and perpetrators “is what it is”, Asian-origin men were vastly overrepresented in the offender statistics in large part because “Pakistani men, Asian men, [are] disproportionately employed in the night-time economy” — cab drivers, takeaway owners and workers, and so on — and that brings vulnerable seeking “transport” and “food” in contact with the “very small minority” of night-time economy workers inclined towards sexual abuse.
 
3.000.000 applied so far
of the ones checked so far 6 have been refused
not knowing how many have been checked you have to assume 2.999.994 are ok
there are a few million that for whatever reason have not applied

It doesn't say 3 million have been checked though, it says 3 million have applied. Maybe they've checked 6 and rejected them all.
 
It doesn't say 3 million have been checked though, it says 3 million have applied. Maybe they've checked 6 and rejected them all.
that's what I said

of the ones checked so far 6 have been refused
not knowing how many have been checked you have to assume 2.999.994 are ok
 
And your coming across as a complete ****ing idiot, but hey ho as if i give a flying f*ck what you think, so toddle on back to kindergarten and your age group , bye bye Gullible!

You need to calm down fella, you seem to have worked yourself into quite a tizzy. You remind me of one of those idiots that calls into James O’Brian and starts loosing their **** when it’s pointed out that what they believe has no basis in reality. Maybe we should leave it there as post on post you’re embarrassing yourself, it’s cringeworthy
 
Rebecca Long Bailey’s email ban is the least of our problems

The Labour leadership contender says we should ignore after-hours work messages but she can’t stop jobs being lost
Hugo Rifkind

Monday February 10 2020, 5.00pm GMT, The Times
The Labour leadership contender Rebecca Long Bailey has declared that she wants people to have the right to ignore emails sent outside working hours, in a policy announcement that her staff emailed out at 7.25pm one day last week.

There’s a lot to dwell on in that sentence, isn’t there. I should add, though, that Long Bailey also claimed that she once needed to work until 3am to prepare for a committee meeting the following morning, only for others to point out that it wasn’t actually the following morning at all. So it may be that what she really needs is not sweeping new laws on working hours but a calendar and a watch.

Like a lot of Labour policies, though, this one only sounds

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