Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
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Unbelievable arrogance runs through Labour's London metropolitan "elite". They've reaped what they sowed

Nobody gets close to the arrogance of the Tories, even if you post your caption 14 times.
 
I have seen many studies of who voted for what based on social class, age and education but very few based on religious denomination. Harold Wilson once said that the origins of the Labour Party owed more to Methodism than to Marx, and he was right. The origins of the party are those of Christian Socialism. The only study I have seen of religious denomination and voting behaviour were for 2017 which showed that religion is still a factor in voting - with the highest Conservative vote being amongst those identifying as C of E, and now also Jewish. The highest Labour votes were from those identifying as Roman Catholic and 'other Christian denominations' such as Methodist, Baptist and Quaker (the last being the most conclusive) with also Moslems being inclined to Labour. Labour's finest leaders have been those who were in touch with the party's religious roots - even such a centrist leader as Tony Blair claimed to have got his political inspiration from the Bible. Labour's manifesto was actually one which would have been recognisable to any real Christian - far more so than it being Marxist. Labour's problem is that it's support base has crumbled in those very areas which once had 'community' and are now just poor. they were once a conscious politically organized industrial working class but are now just 'left behind'. Even the Methodist base of many working class communities in Wales has crumbled. So where does that leave Labour now - having to appeal to the 'new poor', a disorganized group which has nothing in common but their poverty. Labour does not just suffer because the centre of politics has moved to the right but also because the character of election campaigns has as well. Britain's election campaigns become more and more like American presidential campaigns with every election - where the focus is more and more on 'personality politics' and less and less on actual content. Personality politics does not rest easily for the left - for obvious reasons. The idea of there being such things as 'natural leaders' is an anathema for the left - and far more suited to the products of Eton and Harrow. They would much rather concentrate on policies (those ones which the electors don't actually read) - the electorate is becoming more interested in gladiatorial battles on TV - with the question '' Who won ?'' being the criteria - ie. who performed better in front of the cameras.

I think it's been been pretty much that way for 30 years at least, and the main reason why Labour have only voted strongly under Blair.
 
Very revealing interview with Caroline Flint on why Labour lost. Her and other northern MPs were warning leadership they were failing since the last election and would lose at least 40 seats but Emily Thornberry told her we'll win Putney and Canterbury so it'll be worth it and also her voters were not as stupid as Flint's...
don't think Thornberry should even be in the Labour Party never mind being considered to lead it. Open warfare in the coming weeks when it sinks in what the extreme left have done to this Party
 
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as you get older, you get wiser, as proved in said chart

I’m not sure that’s entirely true. The boomers are quite a uniquely entitled generation (overall- there are of course lots of lovely boomers). Since Thatcherism I think it’s fair to say people have become more selfish.

Corbyn misjudged this campaign horribly, no doubt. You can’t expect a ground campaign and genuinely well-intentioned but expensive policies on paper to trump soundbites and telling people what they want to hear in 2019.
 
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Unbelievable arrogance runs through Labour's London metropolitan "elite". They've reaped what they sowed

She’s wrong to be public with it, assuming this is actually real, but then consider what Boris and other Tories have said about the working class down the years.
 
She’s wrong to be public with it, assuming this is actually real, but then consider what Boris and other Tories have said about the working class down the years.

Down the years, I agree. But the Tories seem to have seen the light - Labour's elite are so focused on matters like the Middle East, that they have taken what was once their core vote for granted, viewing them as too thick to understand global issues and selfish for thinking about what's going on in their own lives.
 
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I’m not sure that’s entirely true. The boomers are quite a uniquely entitled generation (overall- there are of course lots of lovely boomers). Since Thatcherism I think it’s fair to say people have become more selfish.

Corbyn misjudged this campaign horribly, no doubt. You can’t expect a ground campaign and genuinely well-intentioned but expensive policies on paper to trump soundbites and telling people what they want to hear in 2019.

Labour were adding policies that would cost many billions to their list of intentions daily, like sweets. Buying all the national utilities, free university, free broadband, millions of trees planted each hour, Waspy women etc. The electorate just gave up believing them
 
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Down the years, I agree. But the Tories seem to have seen the light - Labour's elite are so focused on matters like the Middle East, that they have taken what was once their core vote for granted, viewing them as too thick to understand global issues and selfish for thinking about what's going on in their own lives.

They’re misguided to value the life of a brown kid in Syria as equal to that of Terry, 58, from East Brexitshire. It’s noble but never a vote winner.

They’re mostly just about bright enough to not air their disdain for the general public with the occasional notable exception like saying Grenfell victims were a bit dim for burning to death.
 
They’re misguided to value the life of a brown kid in Syria as equal to that of Terry, 58, from East Brexitshire. It’s noble but never a vote winner.

They’re mostly just about bright enough to not air their disdain for the general public with the occasional notable exception like saying Grenfell victims were a bit dim for burning to death.

As a wannabe prime minister, Corbyn's primary duty was to the people of this country. But the public saw him as an unpatriotic, antisemitic political activist who would **** up the economy.
 
There are some arrogant Tories, but none more than Emily Thornberry - she who had to resign from government for criticising a voter for flying the England flag at his house and owning a white van

Lady Nugee as she is also known just can't hide her contempt for the 'thick' average British working man, says everything you need to know about Labour's Metropolitan Elite. The Northern counties may never return if Boris gets it right in the next 5 years and Labour will face endless opposition until the Centre ground of politics re-invents itself with a soft Left alternative...
 
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There are some arrogant Tories, but none more than Emily Thornberry - she who had to resign from government for criticising a voter for flying the England flag at his house and owning a white van

Lady Nugee as she is also known just can't hide her contempt for the 'thick' average British working man, says everything you need to know about Labour's Metropolitan Elite. The Northern counties may never return if Boris gets it right in the next 5 years and Labour will face endless opposition until the Centre ground of politics re-invents itself with a soft Left alternative...
 
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I’m not sure that’s entirely true. The boomers are quite a uniquely entitled generation (overall- there are of course lots of lovely boomers). Since Thatcherism I think it’s fair to say people have become more selfish.

Corbyn misjudged this campaign horribly, no doubt. You can’t expect a ground campaign and genuinely well-intentioned but expensive policies on paper to trump soundbites and telling people what they want to hear in 2019.

But that's just it, there is no sound judgement in the Labour Party, they still think everyone who didn't vote for them got it wrong because there is no alternative in their world. The new leader wll be crowned by Momentum and will be another treading the same path that has failed twice in two and a half years. They couldn't win offering so many freebies you'd think nothing had a cost, it's not the voters who are stupid it's those trying to ram their ideologies down the voter's throats...
 
More reason for Labour not to have thrown them under a bus this time...
And in what way did Labour 'throw them under a bus' ? Or was the truth that the reason for their lost communities and poverty had nothing to do with the EU. not understandable ? Your text also says that Labour does not understand patriotism - what could be more patriotic than taking back industry into British hands ? Do you think that the Tories can claim a monopoly on patriotism by opening up the countries resources to the biggest bidder ?
 
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And in what way did Labour 'throw them under a bus' ? Or was the truth that the reason for their lost communities and poverty had nothing to do with the EU. not understandable ? Your text also says that Labour does not understand patriotism - what could be more patriotic than taking back industry into British hands ? Do you think that the Tories can claim a monopoly on patriotism by opening up the countries resources to the biggest bidder ?

No doubt the Labour hierarchy think they are a lost cause and your comments show despite the thrashing Labour received in those areas nothing will change as they undoubtley think the same way as you. So we'll just all agree those voters are stupid...