Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Yes, the best way to get a deal is to go hard for WTO, and the EU will offer compromises. It's how they do business. But it's for the May and her advisors to put forward a backstop alternative now, so the EU can be sure what we want when they do come back to the table seriously.

We should have gone in hard at the start. However that's the past now.
The EU should know Mays deal is dead and its up to them to sit down and talk. All this chest puffing by the EU is as about as relivent as the Maginot Line. They will cave in as long as May stays strong. I also notice that the EU would still want us to contribute even with a no deal! Yeah right.

 

[sb_73]

Yes, the best way to get a deal is to go hard for WTO, and the EU will offer compromises. It's how they do business. But it's for the May and her advisors to put forward a backstop alternative now, so the EU can be sure what we want when they do come back to the table seriously. Barclay, the present Brexit secretary, was asked this on Radio 4 this morning and couldn't be specific on the alternative. The UK must have this planned. There's a change in the negotiating team so perhaps that's hopeful

May’s u turn on the backstop, which she said was set in stone last week, demonstrates exactly why Ireland and the EU want a legally binding backstop. Even if she gets over this Withdrawal hurdle there can be no confidence that she can get a future relationship treaty signed.

If Corbyn and his mates had half a brain between them they would go to May and offer to support her original Withdrawal Agreement. The backstop, if it comes to that, is essentially what he says he wants anyway - the UK in the Customs Union. There are enough Tory and Labour MPs who would support it and it is likely to permanently fracture the Tory Party, upping his chances at an election which the government would have to call as it becomes clear that it can’t muster a workable, reliable majority. Then Corbyn, the Lib Dem’s and the SNP can negotiate a Brexit in name only.

Only problem is that Corbyn actually wants a hard Brexit.

 

[bobmid]

We should have gone in hard at the start. However that's the past now.
The EU should know Mays deal is dead and its up to them to sit down and talk. All this chest puffing by the EU is as about as relivent as the Maginot Line. They will cave in as long as May stays strong. I also notice that the EU would still want us to contribute even with a no deal! Yeah right.

But they know she is anything but strong. I don't see any chest puffing as you call it, I see one side sticking to their negotiating while the other changes, crumbles, splits and changes again.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

What alternative is there. Talk about winging it !!

They have to make the case that technology can replace a hard border. There's a border there already for VAT purposes. They have to be creative about it. Customs checks should take place away from the border – including having declarations made online.

This from ITV News:

"In November 2017, the head of Swiss customs Dr Christian Bock spoke about their solution at the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, and, when asked by Bob Stewart, said an “effective but non-invasive border for Northern Ireland was possible."

He said: “Yes, that is possible. What would you need to do? You need common patrols between the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, staffed with the same people and with the common goal of finding irregularities.

“Secondly, you need an intelligence strategy for what you are looking for.

“You need control points not at the border but somewhere in the country.” "

 

[bobmid]

They have to make the case that technology can replace a hard border. There's a border there already for VAT purposes. They have to be creative about it. Customs checks should take place away from the border – including having declarations made online.

This from ITV News:

"In November 2017, the head of Swiss customs Dr Christian Bock spoke about their solution at the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, and, when asked by Bob Stewart, said an “effective but non-invasive border for Northern Ireland was possible."

He said: “Yes, that is possible. What would you need to do? You need common patrols between the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, staffed with the same people and with the common goal of finding irregularities.

“Secondly, you need an intelligence strategy for what you are looking for.

“You need control points not at the border but somewhere in the country.” "

Whats to stop any wrong doings taking place after those checks at another point before crossing the border in Ireland?

 

[Staines R's]

No you aren’t Staines mate
Anyone who does your job has the soul of a saint
Inside you know that it will take a massive shift in U.K. culture post Brexit to upturn the nation
I know that because you are inside the NHS you must have the knowledge insight & frustration that it don’t just need money chucked st the NHS

With greedy big business only led by profit essential the U.K. retains the city and today as I have said Barclays announced what I knew in 2017 that they shifting towards Dublin ... I should know my company does everything thing for them

Watch the rest begin to give heavy hints in next few weeks ... I wasn’t lying and we may see a rat run collapse as I could see a long time ago ... it will only take 10 of the companies I know that we control to press the button and everyone will need to look again at project fear regardless what any blue sheep says

To be honest Paul, more money would help .
And at a time when the politicians in Brussels are making fortunes in wages and pension payments myself and many of my ‘leftie’ comrades don’t think it’s right.
For example, and please correct me if I’m wrong (‘cos I’d love to be wrong on this), is it true that the EU gets moved from Brussels to Strasbourg every month for 4 days at a cost of over £100 million a year.......is that really what our Money should be spent on ??
We are ALL having the piss taken out of us, open your eyes mate....join the ‘undertow’

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

May’s u turn on the backstop, which she said was set in stone last week, demonstrates exactly why Ireland and the EU want a legally binding backstop. Even if she gets over this Withdrawal hurdle there can be no confidence that she can get a future relationship treaty signed.

If Corbyn and his mates had half a brain between them they would go to May and offer to support her original Withdrawal Agreement. The backstop, if it comes to that, is essentially what he says he wants anyway - the UK in the Customs Union. There are enough Tory and Labour MPs who would support it and it is likely to permanently fracture the Tory Party, upping his chances at an election which the government would have to call as it becomes clear that it can’t muster a workable, reliable majority. Then Corbyn, the Lib Dem’s and the SNP can negotiate a Brexit in name only.

Only problem is that Corbyn actually wants a hard Brexit.

The problem is Labour is as fractured as the Tories. Some want a second ref, some voted for the Brady option objecting to the backstop. I don't know whether he could whip enough for it to pass - if, as you say, he wanted May's deal to pass

 

[ELLERS]

But they know she is anything but strong. I don't see any chest puffing as you call it, I see one side sticking to their negotiating while the other changes, crumbles, splits and changes again.

Not strong? Oh boy... After what she has put up with, you think she is not strong? Wide of the mark comment. She has been naive but she isn't weak. Her problem was putting too much faith in Olly Robbins and her remainer negotiation team. Have you not heard MPs that had meetings with her coming away with nothing?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Whats to stop any wrong doings taking place after those checks at another point before crossing the border in Ireland?

We're talking mostly about bona-fide businesses here. If there are spot checks away from the border, this would be a deterrent to breaching tariff arrangements etc.

It won't stop criminals, but then that's what the police are for, and this would be done largely on an intelligence basis

 

[ELLERS]

The problem is Labour is as fractured as the Tories. Some want a second ref, some voted for the Brady option objecting to the backstop. I don't know whether he could whip enough for it to pass - if, as you say, he wanted May's deal to pass

Spot on he did. The last thing Comrade Corbyn wants is remain, although he doesn't mind freedom of movement.

 

[ELLERS]

Whats to stop any wrong doings taking place after those checks at another point before crossing the border in Ireland?

......".....

 

[Stroller]

May’s u turn on the backstop, which she said was set in stone last week, demonstrates exactly why Ireland and the EU want a legally binding backstop.

If Corbyn and his mates had half a brain between them they would go to May and offer to support her original Withdrawal Agreement. The backstop, if it comes to that, is essentially what he says he wants anyway - the UK in the Customs Union. There are enough Tory and Labour MPs who would support it and it is likely to permanently fracture the Tory Party, upping his chances at an election which the government would have to call as it becomes clear that it can’t muster a workable, reliable majority. Then Corbyn, the Lib Dem’s and the SNP can negotiate a Brexit in name only.

Only problem is that Corbyn actually wants a hard Brexit.

Both May and Corbyn know that the current deal, amended to include permanent Customs Union membership (which is Labour party policy and which the EU would readily accept), would get a good majority in Parliament. Hopefully he is offering that as we speak. The problem is, they also both know that she won't accept because she won't face down the ERG, which is why he said her previous offer of talks was a stunt.

 

[ELLERS]

We're talking mostly about bona-fide businesses here. If there are spot checks away from the border, this would be a deterrent to breaching tariff arrangements etc.

It won't stop criminals, but then that's what the police are for, and this would be done largely on an intelligence basis

I think he means what if someone smuggles 200 ***s over the border.

 

[bobmid]

Not strong? Oh boy... After what she has put up with, you think she is not strong? Wide of the mark comment. She has been naive but she isn't weak. Her problem was putting too much faith in Olly Robbins and her remainer negotiation team. Have you not heard MPs that had meetings with her coming away with nothing?

Omg she's anything but strong. She has crumbled to the ERG

 

[bobmid]

I think he means what if someone smuggles 200 ***s over the border.

Do I ? The ironic thing is, you jest at other comments yet add nothing of any input at all. Thank god Goldy is on here. You have similar stances yet he actually has informed input.

 

[bobmid]

All our wonderful minds have not come up with an alternative. May is pathetic and weak, the government is pathetic and split, the opposition is pathetic and split, this country is there for the taking. Anyone who voted on the basis of immigration deluded. People will be allowed to stay for 3 months, erm they are the rules we have not enforced while we are members. Absolutely hilarious.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Both May and Corbyn know that the current deal, amended to include permanent Customs Union membership (which is Labour party policy and which the EU would readily accept), would get a good majority in Parliament. Hopefully he is offering that as we speak. The problem is, they also both know that she won't accept because she won't face down the ERG, which is why he said her previous offer of talks was a stunt.

How could there be a Parliamentary majority for remaining in the Customs Union, when the Brady amendment was passed yesterday, which insists that the backstop be replaced because it risks keeping us in the Custom's Union?

 

[bobmid]

How could there be a Parliamentary majority for remaining in the Customs Union, when the Brady amendment was passed yesterday, which insists that the backstop be replaced because it risks keeping us in the Custom's Union?

It can only be replaced with a working alternative that both sides can agree on. This amendment really shouldn't have been needed as things like this should have been sorted out. Obviously the strong May thought she had but was turned over unanimously.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

It can only be replaced with a working alternative that both sides can agree on. This amendment really shouldn't have been needed as things like this should have been sorted out. Obviously the strong May thought she had but was turned over unanimously.

Sure, but Parliament has made clear by a majority that the working alternative is not a permanent Customs Union

 

[bobmid]

In hindsight, I would take Mays deal now compared to a no deal. I know this was never an option before or during the referendum and I know not one single person in the country actually voted for it in the referendum, but it's the lesser of two evils in my book.