The on topic thread

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So Monk leaves Leeds at the end of his contract, moves to Boro on a 3 year deal, sacked gets paid his 3 years, gets a 3.5 year deal at Birmingham and when he gets sacked which he will, he will have worked 8 months and got paid for 6.5 years salary. NICE
 
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Doc said:
So Monk leaves Leeds at the end of his contract, moves to Boro on a 3 year deal, sacked gets paid his 3 years, gets a 3.5 year deal at Birmingham and when he gets sacked which he will, he will have worked 8 months and got paid for 6.5 years salary. NICE
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I don’t think he’ll get that much but I get your point (as Brissie would say)
 
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Doc said:
Think this sums up my views on the U23 set up and development squads in general. I believe we need to get back to academies and if players cant break through by the time they are 22 they should be moved on. FAKE FOOTBALL young Stokes calls it.

We are just bringing in loads of players who will never make it at this club>>>>

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/eoghan-stokes-leeds-united-cellino-14368717
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Unfortunately the players in the first team (and their agents) have a certain amount of power.

If young upstarts start to undermine them and overtake them in the pecking order they will throw their toys out of the pram.

You and I would see that as fair competition. Agents would find a way to upset the apple cart imo.
 
How many players have we sent to our sister club Leonaise? I believe its only 2 and what a waste of time its turning out to be. Ousim Bhoy played a total of 80 minutes in nearly a year. He ran away 3 times hated it, then got on a plane in December and turned up at TA? Idaguci has played a few minutes thats all and it hardly sounds lime hes enjoying it.

Is this relationship a scam a big con or a big mistake? If they are a proper club they obviously think our players are shyte, either that or not happy at having these players. Or the players are crap and we got sold pups
 
Doc said:
How many players have we sent to our sister club Leonaise? I believe its only 2 and what a waste of time its turning out to be. Ousim Bhoy played a total of 80 minutes in nearly a year. He ran away 3 times hated it, then got on a plane in December and turned up at TA? Idaguci has played a few minutes thats all and it hardly sounds lime hes enjoying it.

Is this relationship a scam a big con or a big mistake? If they are a proper club they obviously think our players are shyte, either that or not happy at having these players. Or the players are crap and we got sold pups
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It makes you wonder if there is some financial gain to be had in it all, I wouldn't be surprised if someone is having their pockets lined, Rads needs to start asking a few more questions
 
Thought this was an intersting well researched piece by LUFCData. I have tried to be a fan of Felix but recently.....

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Doc said:
How many players have we sent to our sister club Leonaise? I believe its only 2 and what a waste of time its turning out to be. Ousim Bhoy played a total of 80 minutes in nearly a year. He ran away 3 times hated it, then got on a plane in December and turned up at TA? Idaguci has played a few minutes thats all and it hardly sounds lime hes enjoying it.

Is this relationship a scam a big con or a big mistake? If they are a proper club they obviously think our players are shyte, either that or not happy at having these players. Or the players are crap and we got sold pups
Click to expand...


I've been wondering the same mate regarding a scam, con, mistake. Certainly seems like one of these.
 
From the wreckage of this season which players should we keep. PH said last night we have a squad of offensive players but none of those players can defend and teaching them to defend doesn't work as it affects them in attack. So obviously the plan with Orta and Tommy was to bring in players who could keep possession, play it from back to front and keep control. That can pnly work if you have cash like Pep at City. So we get some poundland players who then turn out to be weak and bottle it and therein lies the problem. I think every team needs creativity but balanced with strong DMs which have failed us all season and a strong back 4 which we have lost.

Keep

  1. BPF
  2. Ayling
  3. Pennington
  4. LDB
  5. Pontus
  6. Forshaw
  7. Alioski
  8. Pablo
  9. Saiz
  10. Viera
  11. Lassoga
Obviously that means offloading around 12 first teamers but in the group above there are 4 of the 8 or 9 defenders required, and all the creativity we need, but needs still in that midfield to help Forshaw and the creative players need to feed the strikers as its pointless even playing a striker at the moment we may as well just have a defender on the pitch to help
 
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Doc said:
From the wreckage of this season which players should we keep. PH said last night we have a squad of offensive players but none of those players can defend and teaching them to defend doesn't work as it affects them in attack. So obviously the plan with Orta and Tommy was to bring in players who could keep possession, play it from back to front and keep control. That can pnly work if you have cash like Pep at City. So we get some poundland players who then turn out to be weak and bottle it and therein lies the problem. I think every team needs creativity but balanced with strong DMs which have failed us all season and a strong back 4 which we have lost.

Keep

  1. BPF
  2. Ayling
  3. Pennington
  4. LDB
  5. Pontus
  6. Forshaw
  7. Alioski
  8. Pablo
  9. Saiz
  10. Viera
  11. Lassoga
Obviously that means offloading around 12 first teamers but in the group above there are 4 of the 8 or 9 defenders required, and all the creativity we need, but needs still in that midfield to help Forshaw and the creative players need to feed the strikers as its pointless even playing a striker at the moment we may as well just have a defender on the pitch to help
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I’d also keep Phillips, our defensive midfielders are being asked to do too much when the attackers lose the ball, Berardi I’d keep too, he would cover as backup for both RB and LB, Taylor we need to see how he plays after his injury clears however...

I’d try and move on...

LDB - Awful LB I’d certainly let him go
Pablo - We can’t fit him into a 4-4-2 he seems to get niggling injuries, can he last 90 mins
Lasogga - Just not good enough, will never create his own goals

If I were in charge my number one priority would be the same as it was at the start of the season.

1) A keeper - Lonners and Felix both need showing the door. BPF I’m not sold on, did great yesterday but either way we need two capable keepers
2) A LB surely De Bock and Anita have to be the worst there are, Anita should be a defensive midfielder but we’ve a whole bunch of those already slightly better than him
3) A striker, I don’t often agree with LL but I’d prefer Antenucci in the team over Lasogga. Yes he has a wonderful boot on him but no presence, no threat in the air, no pace, no holding up the ball to bring others in.
4) A captain in the mould of Bartley, a commanding CB who will be picked week in week out.

Yesterday we saw flashes of brilliance from Saiz and Hernandez but they also tried to take on one too many players, they lost the ball far too many times.
 
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Makes you wonder what PH is seeing doesnt it. Phillips and O'Kane have been garbage for weeks but keeps fitting them in. Same with Anita who isnt a LB or RB, Sacko FFS. LDB I think started well but this garbage has got to him but why is PH throwing him out because even a bad LDB is better than Anita

Pablo is an impact player only now
 
The fans may still have hopes / have had hopes but it’s now clear we are looking at next season. This is clear from PH’s comments, and it ties up with his contract being (I think) 18 months. So I’ve just been asking myself what are our chances? Normally you think in terms of is the owner up for it, is the DOF any good (I can answer that one), is the manager any good (don’t wait to find out, do what they do on FaceBook and write him off now based on close to zero info), ……..oh, and are the players any good, that's probably relevant too :) ?

I’m a big believer in most areas of life that “follow the money” tends to give good answers, so that’s what I’ve done.

The stuff I’m about to post is based on a site called www.transfermarkt.co.uk, in particular:
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/startseite/wettbewerb/GB2
and
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/transfers/einnahmenausgaben/statistik/plus/0?ids=a&sa=1&saison_id=2017&saison_id_bis=2017&land_id=189&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

The things is, the data I’m using won’t be perfect, does anyone really think a site covering every senior club in Europe is going to get all its facts right, especially in an area like transfers where clubs don’t always tell you what they have bought and sold for? I am taking the view that it’s the best we are going to get, and that looking at it as a big picture, errors will tend to even out. But at an individual player and even individual club level there’s bound to be errors. I still think the big picture answers are worth thinking about though.

Market values:

in the Championship, there are two clubs with a squad worth over £80m, 2 clubs between 70-80, 3 between 50-60, 7 between 40-50m (including Leeds), 3 between 30-40m, 4 between 15-25m, 3 below 15m. I suspect players wages follow an equivalent pattern, but don’t know of course.

There is an obvious correlation between values and performance (but with some notable exceptions). The method medical scientists use when they are deciding (say) if a new drug works, is they do a trial and see if the results are statistically significant. Good news – I’m not going to give you 5 pages of maths now, but I will give you just one insight – the 4 clubs with the highest market valuations (Fulham, Wolves, Villa, Boro) are all in the top 6: the chance that any selection of 4 clubs would, by chance, end up in the top 6 is 1.4%. That medical trial I was on about would write this as p=0.014, where the usual convention is p <0.05 means its significant. In other words it is highly unlikely that happened by chance, or is due primarily to good coaching.

Of course there are some clubs who have done better or worse than the squad valuation:

Massively worse: Hull, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland
Worse: Brum
Better: Derby, Bristol, Brentford, Ipswich
Massively Better: Sheffield U, Preston, Fck Off I’m not saying the other one

Leeds are about where the squad valuation would say we should be, by the way, slightly on the low side but about there


Buying and Selling:

As you’d expect, Championship clubs in total sell more than they buy. One interesting stat – Man C have spent more on players than the entire 24 clubs in the Championship.

On gross spends (ignoring sales), the average per club is £11m. Top gross spenders, if this site has got it all right):

Boro £50m (but they also sold a lot)
Leeds £26m (surprise, eh?)
Wolves £22m
Fulham £20m
Hull £18m
Brum £16m
Wednesday £14m
Reading £13m
Norwich £13m
Bristol £12m


The picture on net sales is different, the top net spenders are:
Wolves £16m
Wednesday £14m
Brum £12m
Reading £11m
Leeds £10m (but I think that’s wrong, they seem to have missed Taylor we got £6m compensation? If so it should read £4m)
Cardiff £9m
Bristol £9m
Sheffield United £5m
Boro £3m (they sold a lot as well as buying a lot)
Ipswich Barnsley, QPR – about £1m each
All other clubs were net sellers, some massively so (Sunderland £28m net)


All jolly interesting, but what does this tell us:

1. You can buy success. There is an incredibly close correlation between market value (and probably wages) and getting into the top 6.

2. That’s not to say its simply money – Cardiff and Derby are in the top 6 when money would say they should be just outside. Lower down, teams like Preston, Millwall, etc are doing massively better than they ‘should’ (but crucially they are still not in the top 6).

3. It seems to me therefore the recipe for top 6n is money + good decision making + good managing – in that order

4. Rad has spent on players, it’s not true to say he hasn’t. But our squad is still weak when measured in financial terms. We were coming off a low base and we sold two valuable players. If he can afford to continue to do so / do more, we might do a Wolves next season (can but hope)

5. Impact of parachute payments. Can someone tell me which clubs in the championship are still receiving payments this season?

6. are the coach/managers in charge of the clubs who are over-performing v market value, the ones we should have recruited?
 
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2020 Parachute payments are made every year after relegation unless the relegated team goes straight back up.

Relegated gets theclub £24m
Next year they get £19.3m
Next tear £9.6m

So reward for failure lets take Sunderland for example they will receive £52.9m unless they go back up

Teams still on parachute money:
  • Cardiff
  • Villa
  • Fulham
  • Middlesboro
  • Norwich
  • QPR as they were under the old 4 year structure
  • Hull City
  • Sunderland
Teams who have benefited from parachute payments allowing them to rebuild, which means 50% of the clubs in our league

  • Wolves
  • Derby
  • Bolton
  • Birmingham
 
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Doc said:
2020 Parachute payments are made every year after relegation unless the relegated team goes straight back up.

Relegated gets theclub £24m
Next year they get £19.3m
Next tear £9.6m

So reward for failure lets take Sunderland for example they will receive £52.9m unless they go back up

Teams still on parachute money:
  • Cardiff
  • Villa
  • Fulham
  • Middlesboro
  • Norwich
  • QPR as they were under the old 4 year structure
  • Hull City
  • Sunderland
Teams who have benefited from parachute payments allowing them to rebuild, which means 50% of the clubs in our league

  • Wolves
  • Derby
  • Bolton
  • Birmingham
Click to expand...
Thanks doc, I knew someone would know
 
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