Off Topic The Nurses

[FellTop]

Barclay is now saying the ambulance drivers are putting lives at risk, forgets to mention patients are waiting up to 24 hours in ambulances before they are seen and the drivers haven’t even gone on strike yet, the man’s a prize c unt who is taking over Hunt’s job of being that.

Agree mate. Last week had to call an ambulance for an elderly relative (80+) who had fallen and was lying unable to move. Was told up to 14 hours wait. I picked him up, with guidance from the nurse on the phone. Put him in my car. Took him to local a&e which was rammed. A lot of the people in there I bet because they couldnt see a GP. People with kids who had a fever, woman with a cut finger etc. Anyway after triage we were straight through, no queuing and found his shoulder broken badly. NHS staff were immense, as always. I dont blame the ambulance staff either, I see them flying round with the blues on all the time, and in the past they have saved me double quick in real emergency. Point is the strike itself isnt the problem, we seem already to have a broken service. I find it sad and ever more grateful to those who stick with it.

 

[FellTop]

IIRC the working of PFIs was always likely to be a ticking time bomb.

How come the tories are not trumpeting the 50 new hospitals any more.

The number of beds, nurses and doctors per 1,000 of the population in England, compared with other main European countries is way down.

My understanding of the 19% claim is that it puts nurses back into the same position they were when the Tories took office in 2010.

If we want to kick start economic growth in this country, give the lower paid an increase to what they were in 2010 in real terms.

I certainly think giving the lower paid a bumper rise is key to economic bounce. And is needed to. Just need a clear statement on where the money comes from that the economists back. I wouldnt like to try to solve the problem, but I would start there.

 

[Montysoptician]

Whilst I sympathise with them, and I appreciate their efforts especially throughout the last couple of years, the average salary for NHS nurses is apparently £35,000c, which, when compared to Asda staff or any retailer floor staff, for example, is a pretty decent living wage in my opinion

I don't know if that is the correct figure Gordon but surely you need to compare like for like to get a true picture.

Nurses require a degree in nursing and the accrue student debt and in some cases hardship in achieving it, so they would expect a salary commensurate with their qualifications.

Whilst I fully respect any job that people choose to do, nursing is a vocation and shouldn't be compared with transient unskilled and semi-skilled work.

 

[Montysoptician]

It's the start of the narrative to turn the public against them.

The press where at it already with the nurses.

Divide and conquer

You are spot on Chunk, the machine is definitely working overtime against the nurses and other public sector workers with misinformation and outright lies being told to win the battle of public opinion. As you say divide and conquer

 

[The Exile II]

MPs set their own pay and awarded themselves 10% not that long ago, 10% of what is already a much larger salary than a nurse gets. There must be something inherently wrong with a service that has over 10% vacancy rate, where people are leaving in droves to work in sectors other than the one they have trained for years to work in.

Not true. IPSA set MPs pay.

 

[rooch 3]

You are spot on Chunk, the machine is definitely working overtime against the nurses and other public sector workers with misinformation and outright lies being told to win the battle of public opinion. As you say divide and conquer

Can’t see it happening this time.

 

[Chip]

It's the start of the narrative to turn the public against them.

The press where at it already with the nurses.

Divide and conquer

Won’t be long before they are quoting Thatcher with those “enemy within” statements from the miners strike.

Wonder if the cops will go in on horseback to put a few Ambulance drivers in A&E? Maybe they will have to drive themselves there, a great way to get them back to work.

 

[Montysoptician]

I certainly think giving the lower paid a bumper rise is key to economic bounce. And is needed to. Just need a clear statement on where the money comes from that the economists back. I wouldnt like to try to solve the problem, but I would start there.

It’s interesting that you say that FellTop. I read an article the other day which completely surprised me (not that I read an article ). It basically said that the one thing that a government can do that is guaranteed to grow an economy is to increase income for the low paid and people on welfare benefits.

The reason being that GDP grows when money is circulated in the economy and the low paid are the only social group who don’t save but spend every penny that comes their way, thus stimulating the economy and producing growth.

 

[Sunderpitt]

Whilst I sympathise with them, and I appreciate their efforts especially throughout the last couple of years, the average salary for NHS nurses is apparently £35,000c, which, when compared to Asda staff or any retailer floor staff, for example, is a pretty decent living wage in my opinion

Hmm I think the figure you quote is after lots of years service and promotions. The relatively 1 or 2 year nurse its around £21,000 from what I can find. Of course if the nurses are working 24/7 to cover staff shortages, they will earn more. They will naturally be knackered and patient care will be poor.

 

[Sunderpitt]

It’s interesting that you say that FellTop. I read an article the other day which completely surprised me (not that I read an article ). It basically said that the one thing that a government can do that is guaranteed grow an economy is to increase income for the low paid and people on welfare benefits.

The reason being that GDP grows when money is circulated in the economy and the low paid are the only social group don’t save but spend every penny that comes their way, thus stimulating the economy and producing growth.

There you have it... now which politicians choose to ignore this..

 

[Chip]

Not true. IPSA set MPs pay.

Ok, fair enough but my point still stands that they awarded a 10% rise a while ago so why can’t similar rationale be applied now in times of massive turmoil in NHS.
I would also question the definition of the term “independent” in all of these bodies, they are run by their own ilk. Funny how MPs agreed to that increase but have disagreed with the various pay review bodies numerous times in the last 12 years when they have tried to uplift pay closer in line with inflation.

 

[Gordon Armstrong]

I don't know if that is the correct figure Gordon but surely you need to compare like for like to get a true picture.

Nurses require a degree in nursing and the accrue student debt and in some cases hardship in achieving it, so they would expect a salary commensurate with their qualifications.

Whilst I fully respect any job that people choose to do, nursing is a vocation and shouldn't be compared with transient unskilled and semi-skilled work.

My point is that there are a lot of people worse off, and sometimes we should count our blessings

Even though nurses are, generally, worth every penny that they get, asking for/demanding such a massive pay rise when others are earning substantially less and struggling simply isn't right, especially as some others will take notice and naturally make similar demands on the coffers that are not unlimited.

The worst thing about this is the politicians, who don't seem to have any interest in the wellbeing of others, 'cos they're alright, and haven't got financial worries that most of us 'ordinary' people have, having wage rises that are much more than inflation-proofed without having to even ask

 

[cumbrianmackem]

Our Granddaughter whose now 19 had ambitions to become a nurse whilst at school and attained the right A level results and a place at York Uni. to try and fulfilling her ambition.
She was always going to take a year out but come September this year she decided that there was no longer a level playing field in becoming a nurse and is now persuing a career in publishing.
She was bitterly disappointed having to change her career and the recent turn of events have bolstered her into thinking she made the right choice.
She's a wonderful young woman who would have made a brilliant career for herself in the NHS and sadly she's another loss to them along with many others.
I wouldn't be surprised to see her to have a go at nursing in ten years or so but we'll have to wait and see.
The whole thing just seems a right mess at present.

 

[Montysoptician]

My point is that there are a lot of people worse off, and sometimes we should count our blessings

Even though nurses are, generally, worth every penny that they get, asking for/demanding such a massive pay rise when others are earning substantially less and struggling simply isn't right, especially as some others will take notice and naturally make similar demands on the coffers that are not unlimited.

The worst thing about this is the politicians, who don't seem to have any interest in the wellbeing of others, 'cos they're alright, and haven't got financial worries that most of us 'ordinary' people have, having wage rises that are much more than inflation proofed without having to even ask

Are you saying we should all get paid the same pay irrespective of our skill set and our contribution to society Gordon? Proper commie you like

I do get what you mean, that everyone is suffering from high inflation and mortgage rates, but the 19% is a figure that the government are pushing to turn the sympathy away from the nurses. The pay claim was actually inflation + 5%, it was submitted last year when inflation was relatively low and they have already had 4% of the claim implemented, the union leaders keep saying that there is room for negotiation but the government won't talk about wages.

I believe nurses in Scotland who made the same claim last year have agreed a total settlement of 7.5%.

*Edit*, I have just read that it was put to a vote and the nurses rejected it

 

[FellTop]

There you have it... now which politicians choose to ignore this..

I honestly dont know if they ignore it, or dont know to deliver it. Where do we cut back to deliver it is what I cant envisage. The overall bill for a bump in wages must be huge. We already have a national debt problem. Do we just borrow our way out of these challenges? I have kids who are already going to be paying for the govt handouts during covid and the energy cost hikes. I would rather I paid for my generations cost than them personally. I would like to see something cut to pay, but what can we cut? A very difficult puzzle for any govt I think.

 

[Chunksafc]

Won’t be long before they are quoting Thatcher with those “enemy within” statements from the miners strike.

Wonder if the cops will go in on horseback to put a few Ambulance drivers in A&E? Maybe they will have to drive themselves there, a great way to get them back to work.

Like this you mean

BBC News - Ambulance strike: Union fury over minister Steve Barclay's claims https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64050277

 

[Blond Bombshell]

Are you saying we should all get paid the same pay irrespective of our skill set and our contribution to society Gordon? Proper commie you like

I do get what you mean, that everyone is suffering from high inflation and mortgage rates, but the 19% is a figure that the government are pushing to turn the sympathy away from the nurses. The pay claim was actually inflation + 5%, it was submitted last year when inflation was relatively low and they have already had 4% of the claim implemented, the union leaders keep saying that there is room for negotiation but the government won't talk about wages.

I believe nurses in Scotland who made the same claim last year have agreed a total settlement of 7.5%.

Scottish nurses have called for strikes early 2023

 

[Montysoptician]

Scottish nurses have called for strikes early 2023

Yes, I have just edited my post just shows why I try not to get too involved in these discussions

 

[Blond Bombshell]

Yes, I have just edited my post just shows why I try not to get too involved in these discussions

Agree, it's fast moving, just waiting for the blame to be apportioned to the Sunderland Not606ers

 

[samwise_new]

i have no idea if these 'mega-millions' payouts are recent or have been quietly doing the rounds for years...it also seems to me that companies have far more on the 'management level' than they ever did, when i started work you basically had a manager/supervisor that was there to keep you in check yet these days you find a line manager/machine manager at every level and they now attract a secretary/PA and the higher up you go they have more working for them so they can take days off for golf.

my question is, do we really need so many in charge and do we really need to make these 'mega-million' handouts...it does seem to be the way now to make the men/women at the top wealthy while telling workers they do 'not need' a wage increase, i mean what happened when the nurses (and others) were frozen because of austerity, i am pretty sure they did not get a back amount to make it up yet the MP's got at least one decent pay rise along the way.