The 'Model'
- Thread starter The Norton Cat
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I can't see how the premier league can go against the uefa rules for sustainability. When I'm home next week I will have a proper read, but this feels like the premier league pulling up the drawbridge
One of the things I personally hate is how collectively we are all ruled by sky. They can essentially say ‘do what we want or suffer’. It’s so unhealthy. Without them premier league players would behave less like pop stars.
Had a few arguments on BBC Sports FB page regarding this. Some people reckon that the Premier League shouldn't pay any more. Someone even asked why "Little old Luton should pay for money bags owners at Stoke"
I think that the real reasons behind this are far more concerning and run a bit deeper than just money. The premier league was formed because other people had a vision of how successful football would become and it became a financial juggernaut. The FA at that time said all sorts of stuff and were not particularly complimentary.
Now we have the EFL going cap in hand to the premier league and bleating on about how unfair it is that all the money in football goes to the top 20 clubs and how parachute payments make it harder to compete.
The EFL have proven themselves on more than one occasion to be wholly unreliable and TBH incapable of making simple decisions without overly complicating issues whilst also being terrible at negotiating lucrative TV deals for their member clubs both here and overseas which was the main reason for the Premier league split.
They railed against the idea of premier league two as they would have lost more clubs to the premier league but then complain to the Government about how unfair it is (if the FA/EFL had taken advice at the start we may never have had a premier league but they decided they new best and it has royally bitten them on the arse) and how the football pyramid is suffering because of it.
So after looking at it with some perspective do I believe that funds should be spread better across the leagues Yes the should but then how does that benefit clubs trying to get into the leagues EG conference and below ??
Do I trust the EFL to use the money wisely that answer is a definite no (I only need to remember the PPG ratio and solution being revealed before clubs voting on covid leagues to have no trust in that)
If league clubs breach FFP rules does any money handed to them prior or during the 3 year cycle get taken back and given to more deserving clubs??
If club owners are independently wealthy can they refuse the payment for more leniency on FFP to allow them to compete higher up the pyramid ??
My problem with all of the FFP or whatever they call the regulations now is that whilst protecting the club from bad owners it also has a very limiting respect on other clubs (how can you build and develop your asset without investment) I don't know all the answers but I do think that teams like Man City who have a spend of about 2 billion over the last 10 years or so have no debt but are considered by many to be cheats but Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man Utd are clubs deeply in Debt and still regularly out spend Man City but are considered giants of the game.
To me more questions than answers and as with everything in football a lot more complicated than it seems.
Now we have the EFL going cap in hand to the premier league and bleating on about how unfair it is that all the money in football goes to the top 20 clubs and how parachute payments make it harder to compete.
The EFL have proven themselves on more than one occasion to be wholly unreliable and TBH incapable of making simple decisions without overly complicating issues whilst also being terrible at negotiating lucrative TV deals for their member clubs both here and overseas which was the main reason for the Premier league split.
They railed against the idea of premier league two as they would have lost more clubs to the premier league but then complain to the Government about how unfair it is (if the FA/EFL had taken advice at the start we may never have had a premier league but they decided they new best and it has royally bitten them on the arse) and how the football pyramid is suffering because of it.
So after looking at it with some perspective do I believe that funds should be spread better across the leagues Yes the should but then how does that benefit clubs trying to get into the leagues EG conference and below ??
Do I trust the EFL to use the money wisely that answer is a definite no (I only need to remember the PPG ratio and solution being revealed before clubs voting on covid leagues to have no trust in that)
If league clubs breach FFP rules does any money handed to them prior or during the 3 year cycle get taken back and given to more deserving clubs??
If club owners are independently wealthy can they refuse the payment for more leniency on FFP to allow them to compete higher up the pyramid ??
My problem with all of the FFP or whatever they call the regulations now is that whilst protecting the club from bad owners it also has a very limiting respect on other clubs (how can you build and develop your asset without investment) I don't know all the answers but I do think that teams like Man City who have a spend of about 2 billion over the last 10 years or so have no debt but are considered by many to be cheats but Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man Utd are clubs deeply in Debt and still regularly out spend Man City but are considered giants of the game.
To me more questions than answers and as with everything in football a lot more complicated than it seems.
Limit wages and all will be well. I know there’s a law against that thing but wages are the problem. I wouldn’t want an owner to pocket it but 1% of premier league wages would sort most clubs out.
It does. The Premier League won't do it though as it means their clubs won't be the most attractive to big name foreign players and that's what they rely on to keep the money coming in. It would have to be FIFA mandated and I can't see them making any positive move on moral grounds.
I dont think individual wage caps do work, restriction of trade, Bosman etc. You'd be mired in legal action for years.
A squad cap may work as it is then up to club and individual to negotiate deals within the cap, though imagine the problems if say one player takes half of the wages for the entire squad.
In any scheme there is also scope for off record payments, anyone remember Dennis Tuert selling cars at Cowies?
Any scheme devised by man can be beaten (circumvented) by another man.
The FFP rules were , in the main, well meaning and at the moment probably form the best option of a way forward but how you overcome individual and corporate greed I really don't know.
On rereading this its really just a long way of saying "sorry, I haven't got a clue"
Barnesy’s Blog: “I would urge Sunderland’s owners to tweak the model!”
“Now Sunderland needs to raise the bar. Be bold, brave, and prove itself not to be unbending in its approach to recruitment, but flexible and imaginative,” writes BBC’s Sunderland match commentator Nick Barnes.
By Nick Barnes Mar 14, 2024, 6:00am GMT
I’m writing this shortly after the news was confirmed that Jenson Seelt is the latest Sunderland player ruled out for a lengthy period with a knee injury. Mike Dodds must have wiped out the Black Cat population in the city, given the amount of bad luck he has had since taking the reins.
With a patched-up defence and a negligible forward line, there seems little doubt now that the season will peter out disappointingly and underwhelmingly.
The turning point was undoubtedly the sacking of Tony Mowbray. The whys and the wherefores can be chewed over elsewhere. The most important thing now is to make sure the summer recruitment on all fronts is done diligently, with the mistakes of the past few months ironed out and learned from.
Kyril Louis Dreyfus’s future plans are unknown, with rumours abounding that he is looking to move on. That may well be the case, and if it is so, the summer business of player recruitment and searching for a new head coach will still take precedence. I think we have to accept that Jack Clarke will move, and there’s a fair chance he’ll be joined by one or two others.
In fairness, that won’t be unexpected and fits the ‘project’, as long as the players signed to replace them are as good if not better than the one or more who depart. Therein lies the nub. It is clear the players currently at the club are not yet good enough. The past six matches have proved beyond doubt that the squad is weaker for the loss of Clarke and Ballard, two key performers, and Patrick Roberts can be added to that list.
One word keeps echoing in these past few weeks. From Marco Gabbiadini, from Gary Bennett, from fans — experience.
If there is a fundamental flaw in the ‘project’, it is unquestionably a lack of experience. The club will cite that there is experience in the squad. Bradley Dack, Corry Evans, and arguably Luke O’Nien, but two are injured. One long term and the other chronically so it would seem, with many saying when he signed from Blackburn he was injury-prone.
IF the ‘project’ is to succeed, then the parameters of recruitment have to change. Selling players will bring in a not inconsiderable income, and that should be used in part to raise the wage levels which will incentivise players to stay at Sunderland.
It will also allow the club to recruit one or two more experienced players. It won’t be lost on many that Keiffer Moore elected to move to Ipswich, who could offer higher wages and the prospect of Premier League football. Ipswich, who also signed Nathan Broadhead because Sunderland’s ambitions financially were a long way from those at Portman Road.
Sunderland is a huge club but not yet financially. Prudence is admirable, and I think most would applaud the owner’s ambitions not to let this club slip once again into the financial mire. This summer, though, is also huge if it is to push on and convince the fans the Premier League is not just a mirage but a solid ambition.
I would urge the ownership to tweak the model. The last four months have proved it needs addressing, and many will be kept on board if those tweaks, for example, a striker with competence, a midfielder with leadership, a centre half with presence are signed – with all due respect to the players currently in those roles, they will become better players alongside more experienced players.
Sunderland’s young guns can improve so far alongside each other and with good coaching, but fundamentally to improve longer term requires a blend of natural talent and experience.
We were shown a glimmer of the promised land last season when Clarke, Amad, Roberts, Neil, Patterson, et al. were in their pomp, but the key was Amad - a Premier League player earning many, many thousands a week.
Now Sunderland needs to raise the bar. Be bold, brave, and prove itself not to be unbending in its approach to recruitment, but flexible and imaginative.
“Now Sunderland needs to raise the bar. Be bold, brave, and prove itself not to be unbending in its approach to recruitment, but flexible and imaginative,” writes BBC’s Sunderland match commentator Nick Barnes.
By Nick Barnes Mar 14, 2024, 6:00am GMT
I’m writing this shortly after the news was confirmed that Jenson Seelt is the latest Sunderland player ruled out for a lengthy period with a knee injury. Mike Dodds must have wiped out the Black Cat population in the city, given the amount of bad luck he has had since taking the reins.
With a patched-up defence and a negligible forward line, there seems little doubt now that the season will peter out disappointingly and underwhelmingly.
The turning point was undoubtedly the sacking of Tony Mowbray. The whys and the wherefores can be chewed over elsewhere. The most important thing now is to make sure the summer recruitment on all fronts is done diligently, with the mistakes of the past few months ironed out and learned from.
Kyril Louis Dreyfus’s future plans are unknown, with rumours abounding that he is looking to move on. That may well be the case, and if it is so, the summer business of player recruitment and searching for a new head coach will still take precedence. I think we have to accept that Jack Clarke will move, and there’s a fair chance he’ll be joined by one or two others.
In fairness, that won’t be unexpected and fits the ‘project’, as long as the players signed to replace them are as good if not better than the one or more who depart. Therein lies the nub. It is clear the players currently at the club are not yet good enough. The past six matches have proved beyond doubt that the squad is weaker for the loss of Clarke and Ballard, two key performers, and Patrick Roberts can be added to that list.
One word keeps echoing in these past few weeks. From Marco Gabbiadini, from Gary Bennett, from fans — experience.
If there is a fundamental flaw in the ‘project’, it is unquestionably a lack of experience. The club will cite that there is experience in the squad. Bradley Dack, Corry Evans, and arguably Luke O’Nien, but two are injured. One long term and the other chronically so it would seem, with many saying when he signed from Blackburn he was injury-prone.
IF the ‘project’ is to succeed, then the parameters of recruitment have to change. Selling players will bring in a not inconsiderable income, and that should be used in part to raise the wage levels which will incentivise players to stay at Sunderland.
It will also allow the club to recruit one or two more experienced players. It won’t be lost on many that Keiffer Moore elected to move to Ipswich, who could offer higher wages and the prospect of Premier League football. Ipswich, who also signed Nathan Broadhead because Sunderland’s ambitions financially were a long way from those at Portman Road.
Sunderland is a huge club but not yet financially. Prudence is admirable, and I think most would applaud the owner’s ambitions not to let this club slip once again into the financial mire. This summer, though, is also huge if it is to push on and convince the fans the Premier League is not just a mirage but a solid ambition.
I would urge the ownership to tweak the model. The last four months have proved it needs addressing, and many will be kept on board if those tweaks, for example, a striker with competence, a midfielder with leadership, a centre half with presence are signed – with all due respect to the players currently in those roles, they will become better players alongside more experienced players.
Sunderland’s young guns can improve so far alongside each other and with good coaching, but fundamentally to improve longer term requires a blend of natural talent and experience.
We were shown a glimmer of the promised land last season when Clarke, Amad, Roberts, Neil, Patterson, et al. were in their pomp, but the key was Amad - a Premier League player earning many, many thousands a week.
Now Sunderland needs to raise the bar. Be bold, brave, and prove itself not to be unbending in its approach to recruitment, but flexible and imaginative.
S
Sour Patch
Guest
Interesting that Barnesy is using the words "flexible and imaginative" as synonyms for "SPEND, SPEND, SPEND".
He's just stirring up the prejudices and misconceptions with this.
'Now, how can I get the fans on my side after all the flak I've taken, I know I'll repeat all the daft rumours off the forums, that should fool them'
Even our lass has started using the words 'flex' and 'tweak' when she goes shopping
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S
Sour Patch
Guest
The word ambition is driving me a bit mental recently. Just because something hasn't worked out as intended (at the moment), doesn't mean it was an unambitious idea. In fact, i'd argue our 'model' is one of the most ambitious i've came across.
Wages will naturally increase the further we remove ourselves from the League One days and the older and better our players on the books get which will lead to new and improved contracts. Alongside our squad getting better and us shopping in a higher price range.
I think you'd struggle to find a club who have spent more on transfers fees in the first two seasons after promotion from league one than we have. Is that not ambitious?
Wages will naturally increase the further we remove ourselves from the League One days and the older and better our players on the books get which will lead to new and improved contracts. Alongside our squad getting better and us shopping in a higher price range.
I think you'd struggle to find a club who have spent more on transfers fees in the first two seasons after promotion from league one than we have. Is that not ambitious?
S
Sour Patch
Guest
Went and looked at recent teams that got promoted from League One and how much they spent on incoming transfers in their first two seasons in the championship.
Haven't included teams that went straight back down to League One the season after promotion.
Using Transfermarkt for transfer fees which is fairly accurate, but uses Euros as the currency.
Promoted in 21/22
Rotherham - €1.7 million
Sunderland - €18.5 million
Promoted in 20/21
Hull - €12.4 million
Blackpool - €2.3 million
Promoted in 19/20
Coventry - €5.9 million
Promoted in 18/19
Luton - €1.8 million
Barnsley - €9.3 million
Promoted in 17/18
Wigan - €13.5 million
Blackburn - €16.7 million
Fees are often spread out across numerous years but you still have to pay it and everyone does it so I don't think it's a factor.
Obviously some fees may be different and change the numbers but if the real figures are just in the general area of these then I think it proves my point.
Is this not ambitious?
Haven't included teams that went straight back down to League One the season after promotion.
Using Transfermarkt for transfer fees which is fairly accurate, but uses Euros as the currency.
Promoted in 21/22
Rotherham - €1.7 million
Sunderland - €18.5 million
Promoted in 20/21
Hull - €12.4 million
Blackpool - €2.3 million
Promoted in 19/20
Coventry - €5.9 million
Promoted in 18/19
Luton - €1.8 million
Barnsley - €9.3 million
Promoted in 17/18
Wigan - €13.5 million
Blackburn - €16.7 million
Fees are often spread out across numerous years but you still have to pay it and everyone does it so I don't think it's a factor.
Obviously some fees may be different and change the numbers but if the real figures are just in the general area of these then I think it proves my point.
Is this not ambitious?
Some seem to view ambition as spending lots of people on players theyve heard of
I agree with you tho, going against the grain n trying something different is ambitious and weve def done that
They wont get every decision right, which weve seen in the last 12/18 months. However, im pleased we are doing things differently and trying to create something unique. We arent far away, just need the right manager n a good summer window
We took chances with Ballard, Clarke, Amad, etc ...
... easy to ignore all that for the sake of your standpoint.
The footballing landscape is in a massive no man's land at the moment. Gone are the days where if a rich owner had money, spend what you want. So many rules in place now, no one knows what to do for the best. It's never been more complicated or confusing. No wonder owners are nervous to spend. Football used to be simple, now it's not. FFP means nothing because it keep the already rich rich and make sure its hard for anyone to upset the apple cart. Probably the reason they're gunning for Man City (still classed as New Money) meanwhile Chelsea can just seemingly take the piss. Clubs have a go then the wheels fall off, look at Everton. Look at the Mags, rich a f**k, can't spend a "penny" of it. I wouldn't want to own a football club these days, especially when everyone else is an expert at spending someone else's money.