The Media

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cytrax

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Aug 30, 2011
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Does anyone get feeling that they, the Media, rarely have anything positive to say about United? I was watching match of the day and the post match analysis sounded like we had just lost the game. You wouldn't even know that we scored three goals, completed more passes than anyone throughout the weekend (600), totally controlled the game and could have easily scored at least one more goal from Memphis.

I mean, few weeks ago, all the talks were about Van Gaal getting D+ rating with his summer transfers and City with A+, of course, and everyone predicting that United may not even get into the top four. Heck, they even have Liverpool glowing preference over United. There was also the Media crying over Pedro inspire despite the fact that we have too many players like him (Mata is better, btw).

Here we are after seven games with 16 points, albeit still very early days, and they are still talking trash about how poor United are. When do we ever get any credit?

Quite frankly, I'm becoming very tired of hearing about them not seeing the old Fergie United. For one, I completely enjoy watching United play now more than any other time since Ronaldo left and maybe RVP's first season with us. I particularly love how we control the games and the level of maturity and discipline in such a young team. We were lacking up front but Martial has added much needed edge that was missing.

I guess I just want to know that I'm not the only United fan that thinks we are miles better than we have been since the turn of this decade. Next week will be a good test for us, but I am definitely more hopeful for positive result if we continue this path. If we can get four points from the next two games, it would be further vindication of the new United they now love to hate!
 
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cytrax said:
Does anyone get feeling that they, the Media, rarely have anything positive to say about United? I was watching match of the day and the post match analysis sounded like we had just lost the game. You wouldn't even know that we scored three goals, completed more passes than anyone throughout the weekend (600), totally controlled the game and could have easily scored at least one more goal from Memphis.

I mean, few weeks ago, all the talks were about Van Gaal getting D+ rating with his summer transfers and City with A+, of course, and everyone predicting that United may not even get into the top four. Heck, they even have Liverpool glowing preference over United. There was also the Media crying over Pedro inspire despite the fact that we have too many players like him (Mata is better, btw).

Here we are after seven games with 16 points, albeit still very early days, and they are still talking trash about how poor United are. When do we ever get any credit?

Quite frankly, I'm becoming very tired of hearing about them not seeing the old Fergie United. For one, I completely enjoy watching United play now more than any other time since Ronaldo left and maybe RVP's first season with us. I particularly love how we control the games and the level of maturity and discipline in such a young team. We were lacking up front but Martial has added much needed edge that was missing.

I guess I just want to know that I'm not the only United fan that thinks we are miles better than we have been since the turn of this decade. Next week will be a good test for us, but I am definitely more hopeful for positive result if we continue this path. If we can get four points from the next two games, it would be further vindication of the new United they now love to hate!
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I think we have scored 3 goals in each of our last 3 games, this however is not considered attacking football. We went through a bad spell with Moyes and the media were drooling at the prospect of us falling down the league like a stone, reality does not suit there agenda.
 
Diego said:
I think we have scored 3 goals in each of our last 3 games, this however is not considered attacking football. We went through a bad spell with Moyes and the media were drooling at the prospect of us falling down the league like a stone, reality does not suit there agenda.
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Three goals in three games and not a word of acknowledgment that something is working. But rather they continue with the same drivel of "slow attack", "not playing quite well". Based on the last five games, I want to know who exactly has been playing so great in this league if United, according to the media, not quite there. Then God help the league when United actually starts playing well.

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Oh yeah, those words by Lawrenson suggesting Chelsea are still the best really sums up the ridiculousness of mass media bandwagon that completely deviates from reality. Flip United's position to Chelsea and the league would already be classed as over. They did the same with City just over a week ago.
 
I've long ignored the predictions of these so called experts. They are **** and they know as much about football as the average fan and they can't predict the outcome of United's campaign, LVG 's tactics and the season's title winners as any of us.

They predicted to a man that we would be turned over at the RS last season, that we would miss top 4. Lawrenson always predicts that we will get beaten any decent side we play against. So do Merson and Savage.

They never gave Martial a chance. They crucified him for being a last minute over priced buy and as some people here have said they are just waiting for a dry spell to declare that he is an overpriced flop. Yesterday he was arguably the MOM although he didn't score.

They basically act like lemmings. LVG will never get a positive report from them. The negatives will be accentuated and the positives dismissed.
 
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cytrax said:
Does anyone get feeling that they, the Media, rarely have anything positive to say about United? I was watching match of the day and the post match analysis sounded like we had just lost the game. You wouldn't even know that we scored three goals, completed more passes than anyone throughout the weekend (600), totally controlled the game and could have easily scored at least one more goal from Memphis.

I mean, few weeks ago, all the talks were about Van Gaal getting D+ rating with his summer transfers and City with A+, of course, and everyone predicting that United may not even get into the top four. Heck, they even have Liverpool glowing preference over United. There was also the Media crying over Pedro inspire despite the fact that we have too many players like him (Mata is better, btw).

Here we are after seven games with 16 points, albeit still very early days, and they are still talking trash about how poor United are. When do we ever get any credit?

Quite frankly, I'm becoming very tired of hearing about them not seeing the old Fergie United. For one, I completely enjoy watching United play now more than any other time since Ronaldo left and maybe RVP's first season with us. I particularly love how we control the games and the level of maturity and discipline in such a young team. We were lacking up front but Martial has added much needed edge that was missing.

I guess I just want to know that I'm not the only United fan that thinks we are miles better than we have been since the turn of this decade. Next week will be a good test for us, but I am definitely more hopeful for positive result if we continue this path. If we can get four points from the next two games, it would be further vindication of the new United they now love to hate!
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Who honestly gives a fck what the media says. Watch Sunday Supplement this morning and you'll get more of the same. Most are self-important nobodies trying to justify a living and think that they matter to the sport, when the reality is they are just people who get free tickets to matches and write opinions which are no better than anyone else's. I have no real problem with them except for the bias they hold towards British players and the xenophobia they show towards foreign ones.

Not sure anyone was saying we wouldn't make top 4, and the way we went about the transfer window made a rod for our own backs at times. As for MOTD last night and our football, well you yourself said that you didn't enjoy watching our football under Fergie after 2009, yet we won 3 league titles - so it's not always just about the results. I didn't think they said anything more than "United were better when they played with more pace". I think Ruud Gullitt demonstrated the comparison quite well using the highlights, to be honest. They then said that our approach will be truly tested over the next 3 games - Arsenal (away), Everton (away) and City (home) iirc? Which I think is also a fair point.
 
Treble said:
I didn't think they said anything more than "United were better when they played with more pace". I think Ruud Gullitt demonstrated the comparison quite well using the highlights, to be honest. They then said that our approach will be truly tested over the next 3 games - Arsenal (away), Everton (away) and City (home) iirc? Which I think is also a fair point.
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That's part of my point. We played a game that we won by 3-0 and 66% possession, yet I hear about how United when we were "only" better when doing x. It's a backhand comment again to hold to any negatives that they can find even when there is very little. It's usually the case that when United plays a team and wins, it's always the case of the other team not playing well rather than United's domination.

Yet after the Arsenal game, all I heard about was Arsenal's football was the best they've seen since fk knows when. I didn't hear about Arsenal's true test being playing us but somehow the reverse is true? There has been nothing spectacular from Arsenal to suggest that they are somehow the benchmark for success. It's been up and down for them just like everyone else.

Regardless of the outcome of the game next week, it will not be the start nor end of season. It will be just another game given we are leading from the front this time around. If we lose, we go to the next game trying to win while the great analysts write us off as title contenders. If we win, fkers would probably suggest that we got lucky and true test would be playing Barcelona and Chelsea on the same day. Such is the absurdity!
 
Christiansmith said:
They never gave Martial a chance. They crucified him for being a last minute over priced buy and as some people here have said they are just waiting for a dry spell to declare that he is an overpriced flop. Yesterday he was arguably the MOM although he didn't score.

They basically act like lemmings. LVG will never get a positive report from them. The negatives will be accentuated and the positives dismissed.
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So much is made of LVG's bad man management. If Jose pulled off what happened with De Gea and Martial and 16 points ahead, I think we would all be forced to worship at his alter by now while drinking sacrificial blood from golden jar in acknowledgment of King Mourinho.

It was suggested that his genius method "style" Pedro from us rather than United not wanting him.

Right now, there is absolutely no other manager in the league that I would entrust the job of rebuilding United besides LVG. His ability to take risks with youth while finding the right balance and discipline is second to none.
 
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cytrax said:
That's part of my point. We played a game that we won by 3-0 and 66% possession, yet I hear about how United when we were "only" better when doing x. It's a backhand comment again to hold to any negatives that they can find even when there is very little. It's usually the case that when United plays a team and wins, it's always the case of the other team not playing well rather than United's domination.

Yet after the Arsenal game, all I heard about was Arsenal's football was the best they've seen since fk knows when. I didn't hear about Arsenal's true test being playing us but somehow the reverse is true? There has been nothing spectacular from Arsenal to suggest that they are somehow the benchmark for success. It's been up and down for them just like everyone else.

Regardless of the outcome of the game next week, it will not be the start nor end of season. It will be just another game given we are leading from the front this time around. If we lose, we go to the next game trying to win while the great analysts write us off as title contenders. If we win, fkers would probably suggest that we got lucky and true test would be playing Barcelona and Chelsea on the same day. Such is the absurdity!
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But we were better when we did x. They showed quite well, how in our build up, our passes are forced back bcos players (particularly in midfield) are holding back rather than going forward and causing the opposition to be stretched. They showed how the 3 goals were as a result of midfielders getting forward and creating 2 on 1 situations which stretched Sunderland's midfield and defence and created space for our forwards to pass and attack. In contrast they showed how when our midfield sat deeper the ball often ended up back with the defenders. It was simply to highlight you don't need to have 30 passes if there's better movement ahead. I'm not saying their analysis was perfect, but in a 2 minute review they identified one aspect of where we're playing within ourselves. I'm sure they're begrudging our chances of winning the title also, but we've always had that and I wouldn't expect any less tbh.

Yeh, one result next week isn't enough, but over the next 3 games we will get a much better idea. NOT because of just those 3 games, but bcos of how we cope with the CL games inbetween and ofcourse looking at the full 10 games played in the prem. Also, if Arsenal lose, I'm sure they will be battered by the press I'm sure of it. BTW I'd be happy with 5 points from the next 3 games. I just hope we give a good account of ourselves though.
 
Treble said:
But we were better when we did x. They showed quite well, how in our build up, our passes are forced back bcos players (particularly in midfield) are holding back rather than going forward and causing the opposition to be stretched. They showed how the 3 goals were as a result of midfielders getting forward and creating 2 on 1 situations which stretched Sunderland's midfield and defence and created space for our forwards to pass and attack. In contrast they showed how when our midfield sat deeper the ball often ended up back with the defenders. It was simply to highlight you don't need to have 30 passes if there's better movement ahead. I'm not saying their analysis was perfect, but in a 2 minute review they identified one aspect of where we're playing within ourselves. I'm sure they're begrudging our chances of winning the title also, but we've always had that and I wouldn't expect any less tbh.

Yeh, one result next week isn't enough, but over the next 3 games we will get a much better idea. NOT because of just those 3 games, but bcos of how we cope with the CL games inbetween and ofcourse looking at the full 10 games played in the prem. Also, if Arsenal lose, I'm sure they will be battered by the press I'm sure of it. BTW I'd be happy with 5 points from the next 3 games. I just hope we give a good account of ourselves though.
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If last season's pattern is repeated then we would do better than most people including the so called experts predict. I just cannot work out why after a whole season the pundits are still underestimating LVG. He may be boring, he may be rigid in his systems but he knows how to play against a top team. That's should have been obvious by now.

It is interesting how the pundits are slowing turning and if United win the next match they will all say that of course they never doubted that United with the huge amount being spent were always going to challenge for the title. After giving the title to city a couple of weeks ago, they all are saying that they knew that City were going to implode as usual. What a bunch of ****s <laugh>
 
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Christiansmith said:
If last season's pattern is repeated then we would do better than most people including the so called experts predict. I just cannot work out why after a whole season the pundits are still underestimating LVG. He may be boring, he may be rigid in his systems but he knows how to play against a top team. That's should have been obvious by now.

It is interesting how the pundits are slowing turning and if United win the next match they will all say that of course they never doubted that United with the huge amount being spent were always going to challenge for the title. After giving the title to city a couple of weeks ago, they all are saying that they knew that City were going to implode as usual. What a bunch of ****s <laugh>
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Yeh very true, but the problem is everything and everyone is unpredictable. And if we can improve so can a few of the others. Arsenal for example - we won, drew and lost against them last season. Chelsea beat us and drew against us last season but I'd fancy United to do better against them this season. City are totally unpredictable and also form goes out the window in the manchester derby. Then we have the likes of Spurs, Everton (and Swansea who we've played already) - these teams are looking decent as well. They will all be a real test for us while navigating the CL group games as well.
 
Treble said:
But we were better when we did x. They showed quite well, how in our build up, our passes are forced back bcos players (particularly in midfield) are holding back rather than going forward and causing the opposition to be stretched. They showed how the 3 goals were as a result of midfielders getting forward and creating 2 on 1 situations which stretched Sunderland's midfield and defence and created space for our forwards to pass and attack. In contrast they showed how when our midfield sat deeper the ball often ended up back with the defenders. It was simply to highlight you don't need to have 30 passes if there's better movement ahead. I'm not saying their analysis was perfect, but in a 2 minute review they identified one aspect of where we're playing within ourselves.
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If we, or any club, use highlights by pundits to perfect games, I'm use we would be seeing 15 - 13 scoreline. It would be like playing FIFA 16 for 90 minutes.

The point here is that it is all too easy to make a judgement call by watching 60 seconds leading to any goal. It is always perfectly executed or quickly highlights a terrible pass. This is why it's critical to analyze a game from bottom up rather than use 2 minute space to fit the argument they so desire to make - which is, they want to see direct football.

Personally, I LOVE watching a team play possession football. It is an art form! It is exactly why Barca is at the top of global game. It also worked wonders for Bayern and is always a joy to watch. Direct football works really well with pace but the problem is that pace is not always sustainable. I actually remember Fergie discussing this after losing to Barca in champion's league final that he truly admired Barca's style of play and I believe he tried to implement it at United but simply never had group of players to execute it.

If we put all the trends together, along with Fergie so desperately courting Pep to become United's manager, I believe Fergie was a true admirer of this philosophy that we are trying to implement. Pep probably ended up choosing Bayern because he believed he had better tools to work with there than United.

All in all, England loves gung-ho football. It is essentially why the national team continues to struggle cannot hold up a candle to the likes of Spain. Mata is also an example of what this system is all about. It is why Rooney struggles because he's used to running up a and down without a real plan and why Bastian rules the midfield when he comes on.

Nice debate so far.
 
cytrax said:
If we, or any club, use highlights by pundits to perfect games, I'm use we would be seeing 15 - 13 scoreline. It would be like playing FIFA 16 for 90 minutes.

The point here is that it is all too easy to make a judgement call by watching 60 seconds leading to any goal. It is always perfectly executed or quickly highlights a terrible pass. This is why it's critical to analyze a game from bottom up rather than use 2 minute space to fit the argument they so desire to make - which is, they want to see direct football.

Personally, I LOVE watching a team play possession football. It is an art form! It is exactly why Barca is at the top of global game. It also worked wonders for Bayern and is always a joy to watch. Direct football works really well with pace but the problem is that pace is not always sustainable. I actually remember Fergie discussing this after losing to Barca in champion's league final that he truly admired Barca's style of play and I believe he tried to implement it at United but simply never had group of players to execute it.

If we put all the trends together, along with Fergie so desperately courting Pep to become United's manager, I believe Fergie was a true admirer of this philosophy that we are trying to implement. Pep probably ended up choosing Bayern because he believed he had better tools to work with there than United.

All in all, England loves gung-ho football. It is essentially why the national team continues to struggle cannot hold up a candle to the likes of Spain. Mata is also an example of what this system is all about. It is why Rooney struggles because he's used to running up a and down without a real plan and why Bastian rules the midfield when he comes on.

Nice debate so far.
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I disagree with that I'm afraid. You can't judge a whole performance from 2 minutes of football, but that's not what they did. They judged the whole match and used examples from the whole match to condense it into a 2 minute review. That's completely different and was a reasonable point to make. That on its own cannot be considered as anti-United imo.

The debate about possession football is a different one. There's possession football and then there's possession football. It's dangerous to bring up comparison with Barca bcos the minute anyone argues against it, THEY'RE the ones that are criticising bcos we're not Barcelona <laugh> However, seeing as you've raised it - the way Barcelona played under Pep is different to the way United/Van Gaal plays it. Barcelona play probing pass and move football where they play their pretty triangles and manouvre the opposition using one touch passes, always looking to create space between the opposition's midfield and defence to run beyond. United are often forced to pass it around bcos the position of our players doesn't allow us to run beyond the opposition's midfield or defence. So what happens is players continuously come short to collect the ball which means they themselves leave a space and therefore lose the link up to players further forward. You'll also often see that this causes our players to take 2 or 3 touches of the ball as they weigh up their options. ALL of this slows down play and ends up being possession for possession's sake. This is a good example of how they are different (was looking for the Barca Chelsea semi in 2011 at SB but couldn't find it)

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Ofcourse they do slow the game down when they want to but even then they maintain the one-touch pass and move and you can see there's a purpose to what they're doing. There are also similarities to United - we press further up the pitch and that's great to see, but Barcelona will use that territorial advantage to attack, we use it to "keep possession for possession's sake" often losing said territorial advantage as we end up with the ball in our own half and the opposition re-organise and the moment is lost. Barcelona see a chink and they go forward.

I think that we are getting better, but it's still cumbersome for large parts of the game. And when pundits talk about seeing how we will fare against the better teams, I think what they're talking about is actually how this cumbersome possession football will fare against those teams rather than who is better.
 
Treble said:
I disagree with that I'm afraid. You can't judge a whole performance from 2 minutes of football, but that's not what they did. They judged the whole match and used examples from the whole match to condense it into a 2 minute review. That's completely different and was a reasonable point to make. That on its own cannot be considered as anti-United imo.

The debate about possession football is a different one. There's possession football and then there's possession football. It's dangerous to bring up comparison with Barca bcos the minute anyone argues against it, THEY'RE the ones that are criticising bcos we're not Barcelona <laugh> However, seeing as you've raised it - the way Barcelona played under Pep is different to the way United/Van Gaal plays it. Barcelona play probing pass and move football where they play their pretty triangles and manouvre the opposition using one touch passes, always looking to create space between the opposition's midfield and defence to run beyond. United are often forced to pass it around bcos the position of our players doesn't allow us to run beyond the opposition's midfield or defence. So what happens is players continuously come short to collect the ball which means they themselves leave a space and therefore lose the link up to players further forward. You'll also often see that this causes our players to take 2 or 3 touches of the ball as they weigh up their options. ALL of this slows down play and ends up being possession for possession's sake. This is a good example of how they are different (was looking for the Barca Chelsea semi in 2011 at SB but couldn't find it)

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Ofcourse they do slow the game down when they want to but even then they maintain the one-touch pass and move and you can see there's a purpose to what they're doing. There are also similarities to United - we press further up the pitch and that's great to see, but Barcelona will use that territorial advantage to attack, we use it to "keep possession for possession's sake" often losing said territorial advantage as we end up with the ball in our own half and the opposition re-organise and the moment is lost. Barcelona see a chink and they go forward.

I think that we are getting better, but it's still cumbersome for large parts of the game. And when pundits talk about seeing how we will fare against the better teams, I think what they're talking about is actually how this cumbersome possession football will fare against those teams rather than who is better.
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I think you're looking at the end result which is the Barca of 2011. That was a more advanced Barca which ironically started out from LVG days. IT started as a process which became a culture. That process is now what we have at United. We are far from the end product so we can't get ahead of ourselves. Essentially, then team is young and full of potentials which is solid foundation for the future.

I also disagree that it is possession play for the sake of possession as the pundits like to put it. The main goal of possession play is to increase efficiency and methodologically breakdown teams. It has made United far much more pleasing to watch for me as I've said before where each member of the team becomes more functional and they play more as a cohesive team than individuals. Even with Rooney's lack of form, the team continues to perform. If we had Martial from day one, we would have won more games with far more goals using this so called possession play.
 
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