The Manager

[Chief]

I quite like the idea that Ten Hag would be looking to bring van Persie with him as the obligatory ex player.
He won't take any messing and has genuinely been there done that.

If they're bickering over who should be captain though it shows how ridiculous they all are.

 

[Christiansmith]

There are pros and cons in having ex players around. The likes of Phil Neville, fletcher, phelan, and many others haven’t been that successful post Fergie, have they?

yep. You would have thought it incredible that highly paid so called professionals would bicker on such issues but that indicates where the team and club is atm.

 

[Chief]

There's a common theme in Fletcher, Phelan, Neville though, and you can add Carrick to that.

All very quiet. To the point of appearing passive.

Doubt you'd get that with van Persie.

Seems to be ten Hag's idea anyway, to have some former connection alongside him.

 

[Chief]

Said this the other week and, as much as it pains me to say this, the example we need to follow is Liverpool.

**** City, for all the 'genius' of their manager, he still has the luxury of being able to spunk money on players and then not play them if they don't fit in, just buying another one to replace them. We can't keep trying to follow this, it's disgusting.

Klopp was given time to build his squad, and he didn't buy shirt sellers. He built a squad and then right at the end made a couple of mega signings to finish it off, but even then they weren't mega 'stars'.

Liverpool's owners are American, the Glazer ****s should have a word.

And, as supporters, we should buy into the fact this won't happen over night.

 

[Christiansmith]

There's a common theme in Fletcher, Phelan, Neville though, and you can add Carrick to that.

All very quiet. To the point of appearing passive.

Doubt you'd get that with van Persie.

Seems to be ten Hag's idea anyway, to have some former connection alongside him.

The club has had the reverse Midas touch for the last 8-9 years. Everything associated with it has turned gold into cheap brass. Hope this changes with Ten Haag. Have we bought any player who has subsequently improved? Not a single one. Issues of poor recruitment, poor coaching, poor selections. I cant think of a single plus in this recent period. This is an incredible indictment of the club.

 

[Big Ern]

Said this the other week and, as much as it pains me to say this, the example we need to follow is Liverpool.

**** City, for all the 'genius' of their manager, he still has the luxury of being able to spunk money on players and then not play them if they don't fit in, just buying another one to replace them. We can't keep trying to follow this, it's disgusting.

Klopp was given time to build his squad, and he didn't buy shirt sellers. He built a squad and then right at the end made a couple of mega signings to finish it off, but even then they weren't mega 'stars'.

Liverpool's owners are American, the Glazer ****s should have a word.

And, as supporters, we should buy into the fact this won't happen over night.

yeah, but Liverpool were massive under-achievers when Henry took over and going nowhere, and they didn't give Dalgleish much time, or Rodgers, who was out with one average season. Also, Klopp was fairly successful from the off.

 

[Chief]

yeah, but Liverpool were massive under-achievers when Henry took over and going nowhere, and they didn't give Dalgleish much time, or Rodgers, who was out with one average season. Also, Klopp was fairly successful from the off.

That's the point exactly.

That's where we are now, massive under achievers going nowhere.

Klopp didn't win a bean for about three seasons. There was loads of Jurgen Flopp stuff going about, because he won no trophies right from the off.

 

[Big Ern]

That's the point exactly.

That's where we are now, massive under achievers going nowhere.

Klopp didn't win a bean for about three seasons. There was loads of Jurgen Flopp stuff going about, because he won no trophies right from the off.

no, but they were massively improved from where they were, 2 finals in his first season (knocking you out of Europe on the way), playing attractive football and, most importantly in regard to being given time, qualification for CL every season.

 

[Chief]

That's really not beyond a new manager of ours if he gets rid of a couple, a few even, of significant bad eggs, sticking around stinking the place out.

We won't get CL next season, so the Europa league is a decent starting place for a new manager. It might also make one or two **** off out of the club.

With a couple of decent signings, is top 4 and a league or FA Cup really that beyond us? Doubt it.

Then kick on again.

Klopp won the CL at the end of his third season with proper backing and no shirt sellers. Whoever we get will need similar backing and time.

 

[cytrax]

The club has had the reverse Midas touch for the last 8-9 years. Everything associated with it has turned gold into cheap brass. Hope this changes with Ten Haag. Have we bought any player who has subsequently improved? Not a single one. Issues of poor recruitment, poor coaching, poor selections. I cant think of a single plus in this recent period. This is an incredible indictment of the club.

This sums up my excitement for the next chapter. I really don’t think things can get much worse than they currently are.

If the next manager can be bold enough to tear down the fkin house, it will be a massive starting point to fixing our problems. No shirt sellers as Chief puts it.

Again, I honestly can’t imagine that next season will be worse than the current with a new manager in place.

 

[glazerfodder]

Of the present first team squad the only ones I would honestly keep are Elanga, Sancho and Bruno but even he would be on notice to get playing and stop moaning. The rest are completely expendable, none are world class (and I include CR in that, his days are done). As good as he has been for us this season I see no point in keeping de Gea either if there is going to be a clear out, let's get ourselves a strapping great keeper who's ready to take heads off with his elbows.

Let's get a new sign above the front door too - Come and fight United.

 

[cytrax]

Of the present first team squad the only ones I would honestly keep are Elanga, Sancho and Bruno but even he would be on notice to get playing and stop moaning. The rest are completely expendable, none are world class (and I include CR in that, his days are done). As good as he has been for us this season I see no point in keeping de Gea either if there is going to be a clear out, let's get ourselves a strapping great keeper who's ready to take heads off with his elbows.

Let's get a new sign above the front door too - Come and fight United.

I like that you included De Gea in that list. I think our defensive problems start with the keeper. He needs to be able to command the line in front of him which I have never seen De Gea do. He is an excellent shot stopper, but a lot of it could be avoided if he gave defenders in front of him sense of awareness.

 

[Christiansmith]

All of Fergie’s top teams had one thing in common : at least one top class player who everyone looked up to and listened to. From Cantona to Keane to Vidic to Rooney. Players who could be trusted on the tough day to lift and lead the team. And each were among the very best in their positions in the league.

CR, Cavani, DeGea Matic Mata are at the end of their careers. Maguire is not one of the best CBs in the premiership so are the likes of AWB, Bailly Lindelof, Fred and McTominay not the best in their positions. So should be sold if at all possible. Rashford has youth on his side. Not sure why his form has been so poor. If it has anything to do with the current management and team issues, he ought to be given a chance.

And can we get a manager who knows what his best team is. It’s surely not ****ing too much to ask.

 

[Diego]

All of Fergie’s top teams had one thing in common : at least one top class player who everyone looked up to and listened to. From Cantona to Keane to Vidic to Rooney. Players who could be trusted on the tough day to lift and lead the team. And each were among the very best in their positions in the league.

CR, Cavani, DeGea Matic Mata are at the end of their careers. Maguire is not one of the best CBs in the premiership so are the likes of AWB, Bailly Lindelof, Fred and McTominay not the best in their positions. So should be sold if at all possible. Rashford has youth on his side. Not sure why his form has been so poor. If it has anything to do with the current management and team issues, he ought to be given a chance.

And can we get a manager who knows what his best team is. It’s surely not ****ing too much to ask.

I think you are selling it short there.
I have said a few times that what he had was a team of captains/winners right from the goalkeeper forward. Every player was vocal and did not like losing, the main person that stands apart from this was probably Carrick who was fairly quiet.

Can you imagine players like Schmeichel, Neville, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Rooney letting others get away with half arsed performances or being happy with a loss/draw ?
You could see it all over the pitch, players with personal pride who were not happy with anyone that didn't show it, who wore the armband didn't matter because there were plenty of players in that team that would do the job without it.

 

[Treble]

Look you have to ask what comes first?

Is it the cart or the horse?

Is it the players or the culture within the club which has been set over the past 7 years and they're a product of that?

Seven years of mish mash, no identity, no long term planning, no proper recruitment strategy, no fcking vision, chopping and changing one bad managerial appointment after another.

I'd love to see Keane, Cantona, Ince, Vidic, Rio, Bruce, Stam, Rooney or anyone being anywhere close to the players they were in such a shambles.

Conversely, put Shaw, Bruno, Rashford, AWB in a United side under the stewardship of Edwards, Gill, Fergie and they wouldn't be a product of the shambles we're seeing at the moment.

 

[Diego]

Look you have to ask what comes first?

Is it the cart or the horse?

Is it the players or the culture within the club which has been set over the past 7 years and they're a product of that?

Seven years of mish mash, no identity, no long term planning, no proper recruitment strategy, no fcking vision, chopping and changing one bad managerial appointment after another.

I'd love to see Keane, Cantona, Ince, Vidic, Rio, Bruce, Stam, Rooney or anyone being anywhere close to the players they were in such a shambles.

Conversely, put Shaw, Bruno, Rashford, AWB in a United side under the stewardship of Edwards, Gill, Fergie and they wouldn't be a product of the shambles we're seeing at the moment.

Ohh i agree with that, if the environment is ****e the attitude will sink to meet it.

 

[cytrax]

Conversely, put Shaw, Bruno, Rashford, AWB in a United side under the stewardship of Edwards, Gill, Fergie and they wouldn't be a product of the shambles we're seeing at the moment.

You have a point there. We can’t “buy” team of leaders. But we can certainly foster a culture that brings out leadership traits in everyone. I would keep AWB, Bruno and Rashford from that list you’ve drawn up. No need to bin Rashford because of the poor season. He needs a chance to show that he can overcome a tough time and it would be foolish to not give him that chance. Needs to adjust his head quickly though. I wouldn’t keep Shaw as starting left back because he doesn’t provide enough threat to opponent right backs. We need more threats from the flanks. AWB is limited too going forward but I think he can thrive under a good coach which we haven’t had in over half a decade. He is at least reliable at the back.

But to your point, without a doubt the most important thing is that the culture needs to be built from ground up.

 

[Treble]

Ohh i agree with that, if the environment is ****e the attitude will sink to meet it.

There are players in that squad who have shown in the past how good they are, or the potential they have, but are playing ****e now because of that stink. I'm not going to write them off.

The other thing to note, is in the era of Fergie anyone considered poison or past their best was shipped out. The players mentioned like Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Rooney etc also benefited from that.

If you're a committed player and you're surrounded by dead wood or ****s like Pogba who don't give a fck, then eventually it poisons everything.

 

[Treble]

You have a point there. We can’t “buy” team of leaders. But we can certainly foster a culture that brings out leadership traits in everyone. I would keep AWB, Bruno and Rashford from that list you’ve drawn up. No need to bin Rashford because of the poor season. He needs a chance that I can overcome a tough time and it would be foolish to not give him that chance. Needs to adjust his head quickly though. I wouldn’t keep Shaw as starting left back because he doesn’t provide enough threat to front to opponent right backs. We need more threats from the flanks. AWB is limited too going forward but I think he can thrive under a good coach which we haven’t had in over half a decade. He is at least reliable at the back.

But your point without a doubt the most important thing - culture needs to be built from ground up.

Very much this. Sometimes I look at the likes of Wolves or West Ham, clubs with squads that on paper don't compare to us but are performing, and the culture within the club can be seen all over the pitch.

 

[cytrax]

Speaking on the Gary Neville Podcast, the former United full-back bemoaned the abject performance at Goodison Park, and believes Ten Hag may even be thinking twice about taking over the reins this summer...

This is yet another example of the problem with ex players. So because of the “abject performance”, Erik ten Haag should be having second thoughts?

What an idiotic analysis to even put together. These guys are often dim in how they put two and two together.

I would love any of them to put themselves forward to take up the job.