Transfer Rumours The January 2018 Transfer Window Thread
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That's how I see it as well. Much will depend on Tettey and Trybull staying fit, but the new players have settled in now and we have a reasonably strong defence. Oliveira and Jerome finding some form would also help.
I agree with a lot of this, however I think when you buy cheap and / or young players there is a much greater risk of things not working out as you hoped, particularly if you only look at the short term. I don't think with young players in particular you can't really say they are poor business or a waste of a shirt after only 6 months. Many of the younger players would not necessarily have been expected to make an immediate impact, although this is always hope for, but with the intention of coaching them to show their worth further down the line. One of the problems with AN was that he seemed unwilling to take a chance with younger players i.e. Maddison for fear of them failing, Farke is not, he seems willing to give them a chance. Of course it won't always work, so like Murphy they may need to be knocked back a bit before being given further chances. The idea that you can suddenly flick a switch and young players suddenly make the jump from decent U23 player to championship quality is nonsense they need to be professionally managed and as a HC you needed to put their long term developmental needs over the short term needs of the club i.e. Godfrey loan to Shrewsbury. The suggestion that Husband who is still a young player is average and essentially back up to a fit Jamel Lewis on the baises of 2 performances by JL is a little rash.
I think I'd say Hanley was very good business and was an essential buy once Farke made the decision that Martin was not a CB, a decision I might say that was crying out to be made for several seasons and been avoid by several previous more experienced mangers. For the first time in many years we now seem to have sufficient quality at CB to compete at the level we're playing.
So putting aside the 4 players (Raggett , Abrahams, Savvas Mourgos Und & Power) that have clearly been bought for the future and could turn out to be shrewd buys even if they never play in the first team, on your analysis we are left with 10 players. You identify Gunn, Zimmerman & Trybull as shrewd buys and Hanley as good business which I think most would agree with. The rest with the exception of Reed & Stieperman you appear to right off as poor business or worse. I suspect again many on here would agree with you, for me I would say it is far too early to judge (they are either young players or in Vrancic unused to the style of football that dominates the championship). Reed I disagree with you I would say he was a shrewd loan deal, but is not seen as such because of the impact Trybull has generally made. So depending on which way you look at it 40 or 50% of our purchases have been shrewd or good business. In anyone's book bearing in mind we're looking for diamonds in the rough that's got to be a fantastic return.
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A couple of snippets from today's MFW offering.
At our worst, we look laboured; lacking in pace, natural width and on-field leadership, while playing a style of football that neither threatens the opposition nor ignites the crowd.
However, the second-half display against Millwall provided a tantalising glimpse of what our best XI can achieve when they apply themselves and start to click.
If we need to cash in (to strengthen in this window) then I’d sacrifice Nelson Oliveira. Controversial perhaps but his body language and recent displays point towards a player whose goals and reputation mask a difficult character to manage and play alongside. Cameron Jerome, for all his faults, shows a willingness and application that is currently lacking in his Portuguese colleague.
http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter...-fleeting-a-big-january-awaits-for-mr-webber/
At our worst, we look laboured; lacking in pace, natural width and on-field leadership, while playing a style of football that neither threatens the opposition nor ignites the crowd.
However, the second-half display against Millwall provided a tantalising glimpse of what our best XI can achieve when they apply themselves and start to click.
If we need to cash in (to strengthen in this window) then I’d sacrifice Nelson Oliveira. Controversial perhaps but his body language and recent displays point towards a player whose goals and reputation mask a difficult character to manage and play alongside. Cameron Jerome, for all his faults, shows a willingness and application that is currently lacking in his Portuguese colleague.
http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter...-fleeting-a-big-january-awaits-for-mr-webber/
Do you really think it makes sense to let Jerome go for say 1.5m and rely on Oliveira for the rest of the season ????? Bearing in mind the club has made it clear we have to sell to buy, what player do you think we are going to buy for 1.5m who will give you what Jerome gives at this level ? Oliveira is no better than Jerome. Why such focus on Jerome ? Oliveira missed a great chance to score with his head against Milwall, if Jerome had missed the chance there would have been plenty on this board moaning about it. I understand why some people would prefer Oliveira over Jerome, but what I really don't understand is why you're putting Jerome in the same brackets as Naismith. As Cromer highlights at least if nothing else Jerome has the right attitude, Oliveira doesn't and would generate more money to buy a replacement.
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I'm bemused. Let me explain why.
It's being widely reported that Huddersfield have pulled out of the idea of signing Alex Pritchard having been rejected with bids of circa £8.5m.
Can anyone explain why, having spent circa £8m to acquire his services, we should then sell him on again - at virtual cost price, to a club in a higher division which is awash with more dosh every year?
I mean, we let Jacob M go for circa £12m - why, oh why would we value AP at only two thirds of that amount when he's a far more complete and talented player?
Bloody stoopid, Neyul
It's being widely reported that Huddersfield have pulled out of the idea of signing Alex Pritchard having been rejected with bids of circa £8.5m.
Can anyone explain why, having spent circa £8m to acquire his services, we should then sell him on again - at virtual cost price, to a club in a higher division which is awash with more dosh every year?
I mean, we let Jacob M go for circa £12m - why, oh why would we value AP at only two thirds of that amount when he's a far more complete and talented player?
Bloody stoopid, Neyul
I'm bemused. Let me explain why.
It's being widely reported that Huddersfield have pulled out of the idea of signing Alex Pritchard having been rejected with bids of circa £8.5m.
Can anyone explain why, having spent circa £8m to acquire his services, we should then sell him on again - at virtual cost price, to a club in a higher division which is awash with more dosh every year?
I mean, we let Jacob M go for circa £12m - why, oh why would we value AP at only two thirds of that amount when he's a far more complete and talented player?
Bloody stoopid, Neyul
They think we're desperate for money.
Pritchard is a much more important player for us than Jacob ever was.
We paid £5.27m for Oliviera and it looked like we had bought the real deal scoring perfect hat tricks and other sublime goals .
Then just because Jerome, the guy that scored in the play off final and fired us into contention got the nod over him in the first game of this season.
He ran over took his shirt off and caused a pointless unnecessary situation with our new rookie manager in his first ever English competitive game.
Nelson was clearly trying to say I'm the best striker at this club see I scored you should have started me you mug.
Ever since this Farke has pretty much lost control and is forced to play him every game even though he often goes missing and hasn't scored anywhere near enough goals.
I get the impression Nelson thinks he's too good for this league and would force a move to Wolves or a Premier league side and if we can double our money on him and get £10-£12m then get rid and buy someone like Jack Marriot from Posh for about £2-£3m the 23 year old who is on 17 goals already.
Then just because Jerome, the guy that scored in the play off final and fired us into contention got the nod over him in the first game of this season.
He ran over took his shirt off and caused a pointless unnecessary situation with our new rookie manager in his first ever English competitive game.
Nelson was clearly trying to say I'm the best striker at this club see I scored you should have started me you mug.
Ever since this Farke has pretty much lost control and is forced to play him every game even though he often goes missing and hasn't scored anywhere near enough goals.
I get the impression Nelson thinks he's too good for this league and would force a move to Wolves or a Premier league side and if we can double our money on him and get £10-£12m then get rid and buy someone like Jack Marriot from Posh for about £2-£3m the 23 year old who is on 17 goals already.
?I have to say that I agree with that statement (Yes canario, he has missed some relatively easy chances in recent weeks!!)and selling Basil would bring in a lot more money (MIGHT even mean that we can keep both JM and AP - at least until the end of the season) than selling Jerome .
Edit - Well said canario re Martin should have been replaced at CB at least 1 if not 2 seasons ago!!!!
Very comprehensive analysis, GM, but you left out Phillips and Fonkeu who could be added to the 'not seen in a City shirt yet' list. For me, the only failure of the 12 players coming in has been Franke and he had to then recruit Hanley as a result. I agree with all of your shrewd ratings. Watkins has been disappointing so far but on a free he offers another option WL or WR and is a third choice striker option as well (OK rather than shrewd then).
My use of shrewd was directed at the restructuring of half of the squad to save millions on wages and still have a decent 27 man squad which fits our budget for the future. It's a work in progress and the rest of the season will tell us more, but the 6 young players brought in to add to those already at Colney or on loan means we finally have a long-term development plan. Would AN have brought Maddison and Lewis into the first team from the off? I doubt it. I think Lewis was first choice LB in the pre-season and only his injury delayed his debut. Husband as back-up seems a reasonable move therefore. Even with Hanley's fee, we've saved millions in wages and brought in 12 younger players on lower wages for an average price of around 750k each which seems shrewd to me.
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Reassuring to see that we already have contingency plans in place for when Pritchard goes
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The only youngish player who I have really written off is Husband but at 24, I don't think he is likely to get a lot better, although he might. He was particularly disapointing given our problems at LB as to rely on Lewis had he not been injured or an out of position Stiepermann led to a lot of our problems. He is also Briitsh player who might have been expected to hit the ground running. I am however saying that Lewis should be considered above Husband, because after two games he looks a far better player.
Others who I have written off, OK maybe harsh, but Vrancic for example just looks so ill suited to the championship at 28 I find it near impossible to see him making the grade. That he was cheap is in a way neither here nor there, we needed players good enough to be further up the table, when Mario plays we don't tend to win, I see that as a poor signing. He could yet come good, but honestly, can you see it?
You say farke is not afraid to chuck youngsters in and quote the examples of players he has played and then vilify Neil. OK Neil might have played more youngsters but both Murphy's got their chance. You complain Maddison did not and was just loaned out, then praise Farke for doing the same with Godfrey? Maddison for all his talent may not have been quite ready just like Godfrey now. Perhaps the loan to Aberdeen and a 1/2 season around the first team was what got him ready for this season? Seems a contradiction in your argument to me.
Hanley I generally agree, he is the sort of CB we have been missing for years and to now have 3 very capable looking CB with Martin and soon Raggett as backup is a healthy place to be. The reasons I thought it was not shrewd was, that it looked like an after thought and looked for all the world like it didn't fit with our new thrifty approach. That and he looked an obviously good player at this level so whilst good business any DoF/manager with budget enough to get him who needed a CB would look at him, non-revalatory if you will.
You say Reed is a shrewd move but look at our form when he is in the side.
Of the 9 games we have won he has been a starter in only 3 and a late sub in 2,
For the 7 drawn games he has started 5, And most damningly of all he has started every single one of the 10 lost games this season! When he hasn't started our record this season reads: W 6, D 2, L 0. I know this is not the whole story and he has often played with Vrancic, but he has also played with Trybull. He is simply not good enough now for what we needed, remember he was brought in as first choice as Tettey was deigned surplus to requirements. My opinion on whether shrewd or not is based on what they have offered so far for the main as what they might offer is purely guesswork. Reed has not offered enough to be viewed as better than juries out.
Whilst I view Trybull broadly as a success and a fairly shrewd move, it's on account that he has been pretty darned good with Tettey, without Tettey he has been decent for the main but not all that. the fact he was free and so low risk with the 1 + 1 year deal that makes even an average player shrewd, he might well be better than average, but just as you say players like husband should not be condemned, Trybull still has some to do to prove he is the real deal. If I agreed that 40-50 % were shrewd that indeed would be a good hit rate but I'm not sure that it is that good, it isn't now but time will tell if all those youngsters make the grade or at least a few quid!
Bah!
I think if you check back I was one of the few that was happy with Maddison's loan.
I think the trouble is initially Farke was led to believe like many on here that Martin was a decent CB at this level. Martin was given a chance, didn't perform and consequently he was replaced at the first opportunity. I say that was shrewd and brave considering how much influence Martin appears to have had at the club.
I knew I was missing Fonkeu after I posted it but had forgotten about Phillips, comprehensive my arse! As for Watkins I say a waste of a shirt because he has been so poor with 1 maybe 2 exceptions, he is plainly no striker, although for this city side it's not easy to impress in that role and I just think that we have enough average or better players already who could fulfil wide roles. I know this will get the but he's not ready treatment, but I'd rather be trying Middleton than persisting with him. Watkins ain't gonna get better and has mainly been found wanting, Middleton sounds very nearly ready, so for backup to Murphy and Wildshutt I think he's better than Marley. I understand the signing as he was free, but I bet as a result his wages are better than his performances thus far warrent.
As for Shrewd, the restructuring and wage bill trimming was a necessity and getting rid of all the players we did, including the £12m for Murphy was good but obvious business. We barely got market value for Rudd, Howson and Dorrans and the rest left at the end of contracts. Maybe I'm being harsh on Webber, most of his recruitment and some good recruitment has been on the defence, obvious to us fans but seemingly not his predecessors. We have as you say a squad that should be competitive at this level even after the cost cutting (I will always wonder what we could have done this season with a more ready manager). However you say this cost cutting fits our budget for the future, but does it? Not yet, some high earners who are either not troubling the first XI or not performing that well are still here. Get rid of these before their contracts run down and he might look more than shrewd, he'd be a miracle worker.
I do believe it is a little harsh on previous managers to lay the credit for our future plans and development at colney purely on Webber, time will tell if we get more out, but a lot of the bright young talent was already here, if Neil has done anything right (asside propmotion obviously), the signing of Maddison, Pritchard, Godfrey are all great building blocks for the clubs future. With Neil who knows, one rumour doing the rounds was it was a cull he wanted and the fact Hoolihan was to be part of it was part of his demise. He gave the Murphy's a chance, I think given the budget constraints he would have done so with Maddison maybe Lewis too out of necessity.
We don't know who anyone else would have signed, released or sold but it would have been under the same financial constraints so they would have cut the wage bill and recruited in the vbargain bin and maybe done better, maybe worse. we'll never know, but our position and the football generally served up so far has not led me to believe it was definitely shrewd or definitely well done. It has been an OK job, not exceptional not horrendous either.
Just remember our first XI on it's better days is generally made up of players who were already here:
Gunn, Trybull, Hanley/Zimmerman
vs
Pinto, Klose, Lewis(is this justified after only 2 games, I think so, I challenge anyone to say they want Husband or Steiperman back in instead), Tettey, Josh, Maddison, Pritchard, Oliviera
Bah!