The impartial BBC

[Jiffie]

I am normally a big fan of Hugh Laurie, but gave up on this tat after 10 minutes.

It is nothing short of propaganda and you have to question why such a big star as Laurie would even consider being part of it.

You got to love these mega rich Oxbridge types and mega rich sports stars and their left wing protestations, as my late father used to say (and I will preface this with in the 1940's he was a member of the labour party).

"it's easy to be a champagne socialist, when you are mega rich, because they are the only ones who can afford it".

And going back to the post above, labour are now relying on those types to gain victory in the next election, they have abandoned the working classes and treat them in the same condescending way that the tories historically have but now the working classes are wise to this.

 

[Cliftonville]

The trouble is that since this Pandemic started the Tories (that I support and always will) have been beyond poor at most things they have attempted.

Yes these are extraordinary times, yes Boris had Covid but shocking decisions have been made all the same
Failing to go into full lockdown earlier probably cost thousands of UK lives
The refusual to sack Dominic Cummimgs will haunt the rest of Boris's political life, when 99% of the people in this country knew he should have done the right thing
Covid testing has been poor and that's being polite
The refusual to crack down on the loony lefts Andy Burnham and impose without appeal a lockdown may well cost some people in Greater Manchester their lives
When questioned the government don't even know their own policies

So prepare for Sir Keir Slimeball and co winning by a landslide at the next election as people have long memories.

For me the only person in the government to come out of this with his reputation still intact is Rishi Sunak who I think has been exceptional. Matt Hancock has been the complete opposite,

Labour need a electoral miracle to approach parity. No opposition has ever won an election from the position Labour are in. That is how catastrophic Labours defeat was. Many of the Left fail to realise this and persist with identity politics, politics which put the party were it is.

Keith Starmer has marginalised momentum etc but its evident over Covid-19 he is not gaining universal support, and his dealing with the Long Baileys has led to [HASHTAG]#starmerout[/HASHTAG]. As a person who is a working class Labour voter I feel the Labour party view the working class of this Country with disdain. Labour cannot win an election without a large working class vote. The elements who create that disdain, and its mammoth electoral defeat are still within the party.

Mr Starmer has a monumental task to achieve to create a Labour party that is truly an opposition come the next election.

 

[Jiffie]

Labour need a electoral miracle to approach parity. No opposition has ever won an election from the position Labour are in. That is how catastrophic Labours defeat was. Many of the Left fail to realise this and persist with identity politics, politics which put the party were it is.

Keith Starmer has marginalised momentum etc but its evident over Covid-19 he is not gaining universal support, and his dealing with the Long Baileys has led to [HASHTAG]#starmerout[/HASHTAG]. As a person who is a working class Labour voter I feel the Labour party view the working class of this Country with disdain. Labour cannot with an election without a large working class vote. The elements who create that disdain, and its mammoth electoral defeat are still within the party.

Mr Starmer has a monumental task to achieve to create a Labour party that is truly an opposition come the next election.

Exactly how I see it.

 

[realred1952]

The trouble is that since this Pandemic started the Tories (that I support and always will) have been beyond poor at most things they have attempted.

Yes these are extraordinary times, yes Boris had Covid but shocking decisions have been made all the same

I think maybe you are being a bit harsh on boris & .gov …. yes these are extraordinary times and we all, and I do mean all HAVE THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT …. had we locked down 6 weeks before what would have been the picture then? We didn't because at the time China was misling the world with "we have it contained and not many dying" so why did they build such a massive hospital in record time!

the biggest problem is the people that will not accept that they need to sacrifice a couple weeks of their life to save not only members of their own family and community but the population as a whole …. even now with threats of bigger fines and over run hospitals the TWATS of our nation rebel about being without a drink or party for 2 weeks spreading laughter myrth and covid amongst themselves and unfortunates that get innocently entwined …. why do they do it? ...because it is not policed hard enough. Did 1 student getting fined £10k stop the parties .. NO … we are young it doesn't kill us so what have we to lose?

We all experience failures in our life … try to do something / mend something etc and may fail as it becomes a problem of isolating the cause be it animal vegetable or mineral!

I suffer from an annoying painful shoulder by trial and error I do not now! [touch wood] the last time it started ...has been on and off for about 20years usually lasts about 5 or 6 months this last time it lasted 3 weeks or less never got as painful or annoying …. bought 3 jars of turmeric from Tesco [ as a starter! ] 1 teaspoonful on a weetabix in the evening with milk and teaspoonful of honey and it was gone! still have best part of 1 jar left! that must be a half a dozen things I have tried....
the .gov is damned either way ……….. and sir Slime and his cohorts, with mayors coming up for re election are working on political points gains ….

 

[Jiffie]

I think maybe you are being a bit harsh on boris & .gov …. yes these are extraordinary times and we all, and I do mean all HAVE THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT …. had we locked down 6 weeks before what would have been the picture then? We didn't because at the time China was misling the world with "we have it contained and not many dying" so why did they build such a massive hospital in record time!

the biggest problem is the people that will not accept that they need to sacrifice a couple weeks of their life to save not only members of their own family and community but the population as a whole …. even now with threats of bigger fines and over run hospitals the TWATS of our nation rebel about being without a drink or party for 2 weeks spreading laughter myrth and covid amongst themselves and unfortunates that get innocently entwined …. why do they do it? ...because it is not policed hard enough. Did 1 student getting fined £10k stop the parties .. NO … we are young it doesn't kill us so what have we to lose?

We all experience failures in our life … try to do something / mend something etc and may fail as it becomes a problem of isolating the cause be it animal vegetable or mineral!

I suffer from an annoying painful shoulder by trial and error I do not now! [touch wood] the last time it started ...has been on and off for about 20years usually lasts about 5 or 6 months this last time it lasted 3 weeks or less never got as painful or annoying …. bought 3 jars of turmeric from Tesco [ as a starter! ] 1 teaspoonful on a weetabix in the evening with milk and teaspoonful of honey and it was gone! still have best part of 1 jar left! that must be a half a dozen things I have tried....
the .gov is damned either way ……….. and sir Slime and his cohorts, with mayors coming up for re election are working on political points gains ….

Agree with all of that even the turmeric, I take it in tablet form + folic acid (that may be worth you looking at) I have 3 monthly B12 injections and take berocca for vitamins.

 

[Jiffie]

I see comrade Corbyn for the umpteenth time has been caught out flouting covid restrictions, how many more free passes are the police/ Dear Stormer going to give him?

 

[Angelicnumber16]

I think maybe you are being a bit harsh on boris & .gov …. yes these are extraordinary times and we all, and I do mean all HAVE THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT …. had we locked down 6 weeks before what would have been the picture then? We didn't because at the time China was misling the world with "we have it contained and not many dying" so why did they build such a massive hospital in record time!

the biggest problem is the people that will not accept that they need to sacrifice a couple weeks of their life to save not only members of their own family and community but the population as a whole …. even now with threats of bigger fines and over run hospitals the TWATS of our nation rebel about being without a drink or party for 2 weeks spreading laughter myrth and covid amongst themselves and unfortunates that get innocently entwined …. why do they do it? ...because it is not policed hard enough. Did 1 student getting fined £10k stop the parties .. NO … we are young it doesn't kill us so what have we to lose?

We all experience failures in our life … try to do something / mend something etc and may fail as it becomes a problem of isolating the cause be it animal vegetable or mineral!

I suffer from an annoying painful shoulder by trial and error I do not now! [touch wood] the last time it started ...has been on and off for about 20years usually lasts about 5 or 6 months this last time it lasted 3 weeks or less never got as painful or annoying …. bought 3 jars of turmeric from Tesco [ as a starter! ] 1 teaspoonful on a weetabix in the evening with milk and teaspoonful of honey and it was gone! still have best part of 1 jar left! that must be a half a dozen things I have tried....
the .gov is damned either way ……….. and sir Slime and his cohorts, with mayors coming up for re election are working on political points gains ….

Can't disagree with most of that, but cases are now rising here in Bristol and despite the 'hindsight' the government have now had since March, they still appear to be dithering over many things including the confusing Tier System, not helped by the clowns running Great Manchester, and personally I would be in favour of another national lockdown for 2-3 weeks to see if that is the firebreak/circuit breaker that's needed.

 

[Jiffie]

Can't disagree with most of that, but cases are now rising here in Bristol and despite the 'hindsight' the government have now had since March, they still appear to be dithering over many things including the confusing Tier System, not helped by the clowns running Great Manchester, and personally I would be in favour of another national lockdown for 2-3 weeks to see if that is the firebreak/circuit breaker that's needed.

The problem for me is that from day 1 the government tried to treat the population as responsible adults and far too many of them behaved like entitled children and suddenly we have become a nanny state, seemingly incapable of adhering to the mantra of 'be careful and don't put yourselves into dangerous situations', I notice that somebody compared our performance in dealing with the pandemic to Germany, frankly that is laughable, the Germans have always been brilliant at 'following orders' (pun fully intended). I know I shouldn't mention the war (but they started it) but can you imagine Brits partying during air raids? Brits seemed quite happy just to see the goal of a pint and blindly walk into danger.

The decisions being made in London, Wales, Scotland and Manchester are purely political, I am amazed that Liverpool is so far behind they are normally the most radical of all.

The police should have been given powers from day 1 to confiscate the cars of moronic people who traveled 100's of miles during the original lockdown, the organisers of protest marches should have been fined heavily. Make public examples of people early on.

The government has been poor, but not helped by poor and confusing and changing advice and of course the media has not helped by digging up their experts with different views, it has all added up to the position that we now find ourselves in.

 

[Jiffie]

I would also like to add, 2 other points.

Firstly my wife and daughter both take the same chemotherapy drug (not for cancer may I add) and as such because of the damage that does to their immune systems, both are in the high risk area for covid and both have taken extra care and applied common sense to their everyday lives, even at the expense of mixing with family members.

Which leads me nicely into my second point, last night I read on the FB page of a friend, somebody posted that 3 of his close friends all in hospice's and suffering with terminal cancer had sadly passed during the pandemic but their death certificates all quoted Covid as the cause of death. I just wonder if this is British fair play once more coming to the fore and I wonder even here in the UK whether only England has been the only country doing this?

 

[Angelicnumber16]

I would also like to add, 2 other points.

Firstly my wife and daughter both take the same chemotherapy drug (not for cancer may I add) and as such because of the damage that does to their immune systems, both are in the high risk area for covid and both have taken extra care and applied common sense to their everyday lives, even at the expense of mixing with family members.

Which leads me nicely into my second point, last night I read on the FB page of a friend, somebody posted that 3 of his close friends all in hospice's and suffering with terminal cancer had sadly passed during the pandemic but their death certificates all quoted Covid as the cause of death. I just wonder if this is British fair play once more coming to the fore and I wonder even here in the UK whether only England has been the only country doing this?

That's a very sensible and admirable approach .
As I said in a much earlier post, I have heard unofficially that Care Homes for instance are allowed to declare the cause of a patients death to be Covid-19 and save themselves a £150 Doctors Fee per patient into the bargain. If this is actually true and is common practice, then its possible that many thousands less people in the UK have actually died of Covid.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

I would also like to add, 2 other points.

Firstly my wife and daughter both take the same chemotherapy drug (not for cancer may I add) and as such because of the damage that does to their immune systems, both are in the high risk area for covid and both have taken extra care and applied common sense to their everyday lives, even at the expense of mixing with family members.

Which leads me nicely into my second point, last night I read on the FB page of a friend, somebody posted that 3 of his close friends all in hospice's and suffering with terminal cancer had sadly passed during the pandemic but their death certificates all quoted Covid as the cause of death. I just wonder if this is British fair play once more coming to the fore and I wonder even here in the UK whether only England has been the only country doing this?

I must admit, from the off I've been a little sceptical of this pandemic and the longer it goes on the more I feel it's not all that we are led to believe.
Where it came from all of a sudden and how it's progressed..Is it a glorified flu? Is the excess deaths enough to close Countries down? Enough to blitz the economy and peoples livelihoods? Enough to stop people having treatment for other life threatening health issues, Enough to compromise children's education? Do we believe any of these politicians? Will the corporate companies and major banks gain more of an advantage from all of this.
It's also very strange that it coincides with the US election......I am waiting with interest, that once the election is over, will this pandemic start to ease!!
Conspiracy theory?? I really can't make my mind up.. Wouldn't be the first time we've had the wool pulled over our eyes!!

 

[Cliftonville]

I must admit, from the off I've been a little sceptical of this pandemic and the longer it goes on the more I feel it's not all that we are led to believe.
Where it came from all of a sudden and how it's progressed..Is it a glorified flu? Is the excess deaths enough to close Countries down? Enough to blitz the economy and peoples livelihoods? Enough to stop people having treatment for other life threatening health issues, Enough to compromise children's education? Do we believe any of these politicians? Will the corporate companies and major banks gain more of an advantage from all of this.
It's also very strange that it coincides with the US election......I am waiting with interest, that once the election is over, will this pandemic start to ease!!
Conspiracy theory?? I really can't make my mind up.. Wouldn't be the first time we've had the wool pulled over our eyes!!

No. A service I now work in of fourteen beds endured two deaths and another individual whose lungs have been damaged to a irretrievable degree where the lungs have lost the majority of their capacity due to this virus. The service used thorough and meticulous control measures and failed to keep the virus out.

My colleagues have lost colleagues due to Covid-19. The cause is unique.

Flu does not have such a devastating proportional effect. Flu is a preventable, generally seasonal illness. Covid-19 is entirely different.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

No. A service I now work in of fourteen beds endured two deaths and another individual whose lungs have been damaged to a irretrievable degree where the lungs have lost the majority of their capacity due to this virus. The service used thorough and meticulous control measures and failed to keep the virus out.

My colleagues have lost colleagues due to Covid-19. The cause is unique.

Flu does not have such a devastating proportional effect. Flu is a preventable, generally seasonal illness. Covid-19 is entirely different.

Bad cases of Flu with underlying lung decease such as COPD, Cystic Fibrosis/Bronchiectasis, Chronic Bronchitis and Asthma can often lead to Pneumonia with no way back too..
Many cases of people testing positive for Covid don't even know they got it......Covid must also be fairly seasonal as the cases were virtually non existent in the summer....

Really strange as I've just picked the following up on a group I'm with, on FB...someone asking about flu vaccine and if it's a good idea..

"My 87yr old grandma and grandad had flu vaccination November 2019. Both ended up in hospital together (in the uk) end of feb 2020 and yes both were tested and confirmed with flu. My grandad was released from hospital after 4 days but Unfortunately my grandma developed pneumonia and was sent home to die a week later.
I also had the measles vaccination when very young yet I had a very bad case of them when I was 5. Do vaccines work? In my own experience no they don’t. I had flu 10 years ago and haven’t been ill with flu since as my body had built up immunity."

 

[Cliftonville]

Bad cases of Flu with underlying lung decease such as COPD, Cystic Fibrosis/Bronchiectasis, Chronic Bronchitis and Asthma can often lead to Pneumonia with no way back too..
Many cases of people testing positive for Covid don't even know they got it......Covid must also be fairly seasonal as the cases were virtually non existent in the summer....

The evidence is that Covid - 19 is proportionally far more harmful to individuals with and without underlying issues. It is harder to control and spreads easier. The services I work in have no measures as extensive to control flu. Flu is easier to control. The Covid-19 death rate levelled during the summer. It as a virus still existed, still killed, is still spreading.

Many cases of people testing positive for Covid don't even know they got it ... Mother nature has created human beings that are divergent. We as a species respond differently to exposure to differing things. It is a safety mechanism to ensure humans survival. If we as a race all had the same responses to a virus one infection could wipe out the species.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

The evidence is that Covid - 19 is proportionally far more harmful to individuals with and without underlying issues. It is harder to control and spreads easier. The services I work in have no measures as extensive to control flu. Flu is easier to control. The Covid-19 death rate levelled during the summer. It as a virus still existed, still killed, is still spreading.

Many cases of people testing positive for Covid don't even know they got it ... Mother nature has created human beings that are divergent. We as a species respond differently to exposure to differing things. It is a safety mechanism to ensure humans survival. If we as a race all had the same responses to a virus one infection could wipe out the species.

Mainly it's with people that has underlying health issues, ....Most Cancer patients die of other things and are sceptical to viruses or infections as their immune system is very low following treatment.....A lot of my family developed Cancer, went on to have treatment but died not of Cancer itself but of various infections, normally organ or respiratory ...I believe that although dangerous, Covid is just another flu type virus that attacks the vulnerable. I believe we will develop measures the same as flu to control it.

NB. Flu still exists, still kills and still spreads....even though we have a so called vaccine for it......(I've never had a flu jab (I've never believed in it) and I've never had flu, just the odd heavy cold) and I'm 60!! where as my wife works for NHS, always had the flu vaccine but over the years has developed flu a few times!!

 

[Jiffie]

It seems the norm for the UK that on average in the UK there are up to 50,000 excess deaths of which up to 30,000 are normally winter excess deaths.

https://fullfact.org/online/Excess-winter-deaths-UK/

https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/08/12/behind-the-headlines-counting-covid-19-deaths/

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/public-health-england-death-data-revised/

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/death-certificate-data-covid-19-as-the-underlying-cause-of-death/

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

It seems the norm for the UK that on average in the UK there are up to 50,000 excess deaths of which up to 30,000 are normally winter excess deaths.

https://fullfact.org/online/Excess-winter-deaths-UK/

https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/08/12/behind-the-headlines-counting-covid-19-deaths/

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/public-health-england-death-data-revised/

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/death-certificate-data-covid-19-as-the-underlying-cause-of-death/

You get different figures from different sites.....that's why I don't trust them!!

Interesting with one of your links..
"
Although it might seem straightforward, counting the number of people who have died from COVID-19 related illness is complex.

The infection can lead to death soon after diagnosis, but it may also cause death many weeks later. Someone who tests positive can of course die from another cause such as cancer or heart disease at any time.



https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...wales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final

 

[Cliftonville]

Mainly it's with people that has underlying health issues, ....Most Cancer patients die of other things and are sceptical to viruses or infections as their immune system is very low following treatment.....A lot of my family developed Cancer, went on to have treatment but died not of Cancer itself but of various infections, normally organ or respiratory ...I believe that although dangerous, Covid is just another flu type virus that attacks the vulnerable. I believe we will develop measures the same as flu to control it.

NB. Flu still exists, still kills and still spreads....even though we have a so called vaccine for it......(I've never had a flu jab (I've never believed in it) and I've never had flu, just the odd heavy cold) and I'm 60!! where as my wife works for NHS, always had the flu vaccine but over the years has developed flu a few times!!

Mainly is not all. Covid-19 is a killer by itself. It kills people with no underlining health issues. My colleagues healthy and fit middle aged consultant was one of these individuals.

I have worked in health care for over twenty years from stroke victims to learning difficulties to mental health and more. I have worked in services that have been quarantined due to contagious outbreaks that have been fatal in some cases ...To say its just another flu virus is crass. The control measures for flu v Covid-19 are ineffectual. The virus has a longevity and spreads in manners flu does not and cannot. I and we in health care have never seen anything like Covid -19 before.

 

[Jiffie]

You get different figures from different sites.....that's why I don't trust them!!

Interesting with one of your links..
"
Although it might seem straightforward, counting the number of people who have died from COVID-19 related illness is complex.

The infection can lead to death soon after diagnosis, but it may also cause death many weeks later. Someone who tests positive can of course die from another cause such as cancer or heart disease at any time.



https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...wales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final

Exactly, people like to believe their figures, usually figures to fit an agenda and as these links prove you can find what you want if you look.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

Exactly, people like to believe their figures, usually figures to fit an agenda and as these links prove you can find what you want if you look.

We need to be very careful with these figures being flouted about.
Because they are making out that 44,000 people are registered dying of covid, even though they have other health issues....... the figures showing people dying of Cancer, Kidney failure, COPD etc will look to be falsely down because it's been tick boxed as Covid......like we've cracked these life threatening illnesses as you can't separate them out.....
That's why I say it's all about if we die WITH covid or BECAUSE of covid.......