Off Topic The Goodhand Arms

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fran-MLs little camera said:
I am a Mail reader (there I've said it :)) and I took comments personally when they weren't, so sorry once again. My first reaction to the attack yesterday was that it was probably perpetrated by a Muslim....which is just common sense....but my second thought was a hope that there would be no retaliation against British Muslims. Not in my name in other words...so I don't consider my thoughts racist, just realistic.

A commentator on TV said it was the first attack on the government.....I thought you've got a short memory. Airey Neeve's murder, the Brighton hotel bombing, not to mention the rocket attack on number ten (the reason there are gates in Downing Street).
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Probably meant 'this' government.
I'm slightly surprised that you are a Mail reader. Is it exclusive.? Do you read other papers.? In my experience, Mail [and also Express, Sun] readers have a sharp right / wrong outlook to political situations, and you obviously don't. There are usually no subtle nuances, no shades of grey in their outlook. And there are always shades of grey to a political situation. They are usually, I have to say this, the most ill-informed [I won't say ignorant] of those in my experience also.

Sorry if that annoys a few people, but that's just my experience. Certainly no offence meant to you Fran.
 
Perhaps you are just wrong to lump readers of a paper into one homogeneous group. Of course one reads the paper that is on your side of the political spectrum, but readers are individuals....I cannot believe that I am strangely unique. The Mail is also very readable without being too simplistic.....I certainly don't read any paper solely for the politics. The Express is just a bit thin and too quick a read. I used to have the Telegraph, but gave up on the grounds of cost years ago when I was struggling and have never gone back to it.
 
MLsfc said:
You realise you are talking about a murderer and a terrorist right?

He is responsible for the death of many and the maiming of many more, please forgive me for not being overly sad at the news of his passing. Despite him striving for peace in later years (possibly to save his own skin) he is nonetheless a disgusting human being.
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If foreign troops came into your neighbourhood and killed innocent people and degrading the rest and with little or no political or legal way of stopping it would you not think it would be very hard not to take up arms? There were horrible acts in all sides. Innocent people were killed and maimed by all sides Republican, Unionist and the British forces and this was not right.. Don't forget about British involvement in Bloody Sunday, and the Monaghan and Dublin bombings to name but a few. The worst thing about it was that they wouldn't even acknowledge their part in these events. I don't suppose that was ever highlighted to any great degree over here. I understand of course that you aren't too sad at his passing but I hope you can at least see why people in Ireland would mourn his death. Anyway my views on this are never going to be popular on an English football forum so I'll leave it there
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
Perhaps you are just wrong to lump readers of a paper into one homogeneous group. Of course one reads the paper that is on your side of the political spectrum, but readers are individuals....I cannot believe that I am strangely unique. The Mail is also very readable without being too simplistic.....I certainly don't read any paper solely for the politics. The Express is just a bit thin and too quick a read. I used to have the Telegraph, but gave up on the grounds of cost years ago when I was struggling and have never gone back to it.
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I'm not 'lumping' them. They just happen to fall into that category. I have several friends and acquaintances on different sides of the political spectrum, and it has just been my personal experience that the more educated they are, the less liable are they to read newspapers like the Mail or Express. There are always exceptions - I think that's an important thing to note. Not everyone conveniently fits a category. I especially don't even like to categorise people, preferring to be open-minded, so I can honestly tell you that I don't 'lump'. :)
 
Le Tissier's Laces said:
I used to teach James Barker who was 12 when he was killed in the Omagh bombing. You couldn't meet a young kid more full of life. He was a cheeky little bugger, but a pleasure to be around. Still think about him a lot whenever something like this happens.
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That's horrible. As a teacher myself I can only imagine the heartbreaking duty of telling his classmates. Something that I'm sure will live with you. This was one of the most callous, pointless and horrific events of the troubles, especially after both sides of the community had recently plotted a path for peace with the GFA. Let's hope these days never return
 
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thebronze14 said:
That's horrible. As a teacher myself I can only imagine the heartbreaking duty of telling his classmates. Something that I'm sure will live with you. This was one of the most callous, pointless and horrific events of the troubles, especially after both sides of the community had recently plotted a path for peace with the GFA. Let's hope these days never return
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Hear hear.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
A commentator on TV said it was the first attack on the government.....I thought you've got a short memory. Airey Neeve's murder, the Brighton hotel bombing, not to mention the rocket attack on number ten (the reason there are gates in Downing Street).
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Not to mention the blitz, which is still living memory for some Londoners (like my mum).
 
thebronze14 said:
That's horrible. As a teacher myself I can only imagine the heartbreaking duty of telling his classmates. Something that I'm sure will live with you. This was one of the most callous, pointless and horrific events of the troubles, especially after both sides of the community had recently plotted a path for peace with the GFA. Let's hope these days never return
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'Fortunately' (I use that term loosely) I wasn't teaching him at the time as he and the family had just moved out there. Was my first ever job and just a summer scheme type lark whilst I was at uni. He left an impression though and I was horrified when what happened came to light. That moment you see the victims faces in the paper and think "****, I know that person". Same thing with Dylan at the Shoreham air crash. The first you know of it is in the press.

Completely agree with your final point. We must move on.
 
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fran-MLs little camera said:
Perhaps you are just wrong to lump readers of a paper into one homogeneous group. Of course one reads the paper that is on your side of the political spectrum, but readers are individuals....I cannot believe that I am strangely unique. The Mail is also very readable without being too simplistic.....I certainly don't read any paper solely for the politics. The Express is just a bit thin and too quick a read. I used to have the Telegraph, but gave up on the grounds of cost years ago when I was struggling and have never gone back to it.
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You are not unique as these papers are popular and although I don't usually buy a paper if I do it's one of these. I have been surprised that some people, who seem to be against discrimination, discriminate against someone just because of the newspaper they read. It has surprised me how close minded some can be. I can't think of one single paper that I could read and agree with all that is written. I am an individual with my own thoughts after all. I don't read this forum and agree with all of it, so why is a paper any different? As for saying educated people don't read them that is just nonsense.
 
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Whiteley Saint said:
You are not unique as these papers are popular and although I don't usually buy a paper if I do it's one of these. I have been surprised that some people, who seem to be against discrimination, discriminate against someone just because of the newspaper they read. It has surprised me how closed minded some can be. I can't think of one single paper that I could read and agree with all that is written. I am an individual with my own thoughts after all. I don't read this forum and agree with all of it, so why is a paper any different? As for saying educated people don't read them that is just nonsense.
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I remember my Dad telling me that he once went to an interview for a teaching position and was asked what paper he read. He said "The Times" and the man nodded as if to say "excellent - we'll take him", but then my dad followed with "and the Morning Star" so I can get a truly balanced opinion"
Needless to say, he didn't get the job!
 
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davecg69 said:
I remember my Dad telling me that he once went to an interview for a teaching position and was asked what paper he read. He said "The Times" and the man nodded as if to say "excellent - we'll take him", but then my dad followed with "and the Morning Star" so I can get a truly balanced opinion"
Needless to say, he didn't get the job!
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Snobs. :)
 
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As a side issue, level of education may suggest a certain level of intelligence, but absence of higher education does not mean you lack intelligence. You have to remember this especially when considering older people. I went to Uni in the sixties....it was far less common than now. Bright girls were directed to shorthand-typing courses and both sexes would commonly have to go out to work as soon as possible. This means that estimating intelligence by education levels in older people is especially fraught with difficulties.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
As a side issue, level of education may suggest a certain level of intelligence, but absence of higher education does not mean you lack intelligence. You have to remember this especially when considering older people. I went to Uni in the sixties....it was far less common than now. Bright girls were directed to shorthand-typing courses and both sexes would commonly have to go out to work as soon as possible. This means that estimating intelligence by education levels in older people is especially fraught with difficulties.
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Very true. Most families wanted their kids out to work unless they were going to study for a profession like law, medicine etc. Nothing to do with intelligence just life choices or necessity. I don't have a degree but have worked over recent years with many who have. I had no problem doing the same job and in some cases picking up new things a lot quicker.
 
I worked in a crisp factory when I was young during the long vac and I noticed then that the young workers were far less bright than the older women. I know you pick up stuff as you get older, but I think youngsters were beginning to get chances in life, so the bright ones were in some apprenticeship or office work, whereas the older women had no choice but factory work however clever they were. My mother went to a grammar school (the one I later attended), but her mother made her leave as soon as she was old enough to work in a tailors. My Dad who was artistic wasn't allowed to accept an apprenticeship with a silversmith, but had to quite unnecessarily start labouring work. I think that was why my parents were determined that my brother and I went as far as we wanted or could. The greatest gift is good parents.
 
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