The EU debate - Part III

[Stan]

So Stan, how many war torn countries have you to had to flee from?

None but I lived in the Middle East for a long time and have worked with the all party parliamentary committee for the country my old man is from. The people Dull and co are so scared of really aren't that scary.

 

[pieguts]

Seems to me most of this misses the point. Safety is a refugee camp where you are sheltered, fed, clothed and watered by the UN and charities. It is not a life for those who are used to working and supporting themselves. Trying to travel further with a family in harsh conditions with no means of support is impractical. The countries around Syria have either closed their borders (Jordan) because they are unable to cope with the numbers or they are in the midst of upheaval themselves (Iraq and Turkey).
Most stay and make a life in the neighbouring countries but there is too many so they are attracted to places that have low unemployment and plenty of work (Northern Europe).
I find it interesting that if a UK citizen sits at home and lives off the state then they are a scrounger, but our perception is refugees should stay put and be supported rather than look for work and a life.
I've been to the Tibetan refugee camps in Nepal and seen people like you and me who just want a future, they make and sell what they can whilst waiting until India, US or some other far flung country accepts them because Nepal decided it could take no more in 1989 due to the large influx.

On this occasion I don't think anyone was saying that Steve. It looks to me like Stan came on here looking for a fight. He asked a question, which in my opinion Hull answered truthfully. It the went on from there.
I think the waters become muddy when you start to talk around fleeing a war torn country and trying to assure that other family members left behind, have the same escape chance once you have settled. Where people evntually settle is another completely different debate IMO.

 

[pieguts]

None but I lived in the Middle East for a long time and have worked with the all party parliamentary committee for the country my old man is from. The people Dull and co are so scared of really aren't that scary.

So basically then, your view is no different to Hull's. Neither of you have experienced these atrocities.

 

[Stan]

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Turkey is fine.
Lots of the people coming to Europe are from Pakistan and Iran and should be sent back.
You are getting plenty of "refugees" moaning about money and accommodation when they are sent to eastern European counties, so that goes to show what they really are.

Also Who would leave there family in a war zone so you can go look for safety, sounds like a coward would do that (Sad Stan), I would take my family with me we all go together.

By all means help genuine "refugees" but send the rest back home.

You're an illiterate moron living in a whites only hamlet in a **** part of the Midlands judging desperate people and "bravely" stating what you would do if you were in their situation. Your understanding of what they're living through is on a par with your grasp of the English language. Based on your repetitive admissions of self preservation at all costs, you'd most likely use your children as a human shield to get your worthless, white trash arse out of Lidl, let alone Syria.

 

[NSIS]

Seems to me most of this misses the point. Safety is a refugee camp where you are sheltered, fed, clothed and watered by the UN and charities. It is not a life for those who are used to working and supporting themselves. Trying to travel further with a family in harsh conditions with no means of support is impractical. The countries around Syria have either closed their borders (Jordan) because they are unable to cope with the numbers or they are in the midst of upheaval themselves (Iraq and Turkey).
Most stay and make a life in the neighbouring countries but there is too many so they are attracted to places that have low unemployment and plenty of work (Northern Europe).
I find it interesting that if a UK citizen sits at home and lives off the state then they are a scrounger, but our perception is refugees should stay put and be supported rather than look for work and a life.
I've been to the Tibetan refugee camps in Nepal and seen people like you and me who just want a future, they make and sell what they can whilst waiting until India, US or some other far flung country accepts them because Nepal decided it could take no more in 1989 due to the large influx.

It seems to me that, yes, there are two separate issues.

Firstly, the question of reaching safety. A place where at least you no longer need to fear for your life.

Secondly, is the question of what will the future bring? Will you ever be able to return to your homeland? Or would you ever want to? It's what makes many seek the comparative certainty of a life in Western Europe.

I think we forget that many of these refugees are highly skilled professional people. Doctors lawyers, scientists, etc. They most probably had a very good lifestyle in their own country until it all kicked off ( with our help in the west, as usual! ). Many probably miss their homes badly. They have had to leave families behind, in some cases. In others, the whole family has fled into a totally unknown future.

Non of these things would any sane person choose to do if the only alternative wasn't something far worse.

 

[steveninaster1]

On this occasion I don't think anyone was saying that Steve. It looks to me like Stan came on here looking for a fight. He asked a question, which in my opinion Hull answered truthfully. It the went on from there.
I think the waters become muddy when you start to talk around fleeing a war torn country and trying to assure that other family members left behind, have the same escape chance once you have settled. Where people evntually settle is another completely different debate IMO.

Family members aren't being left behind in war zones. They are being left in refugee camps .

 

[petersaxton]

Could he get any worse? Jeremy Corbyn left red-faced after huge PMQs gaffe
http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-prime-ministers-question-imf-ifs-theresa-may

 

[Stan]

It seems to me that, yes, there are two separate issues.

Firstly, the question of reaching safety. A place where at least you no longer need to fear for your life.

Secondly, is the question of what will the future bring? Will you ever be able to return to your homeland? Or would you ever want to? It's what makes many seek the comparative certainty of a life in Western Europe.

I think we forget that many of these refugees are highly skilled professional people. Doctors lawyers, scientists, etc. They most probably had a very good lifestyle in their own country until it all kicked off ( with our help in the west, as usual! ). Many probably miss their homes badly. They have had to leave families behind, in some cases. In others, the whole family has fled into a totally unknown future.

Non of these things would any sane person choose to do if the only alternative wasn't something far worse.

My brother in law runs a business in SA that has hundreds of call centre staff. Many of them are people who have escaped tyranny in Zimbabwe. He has people working his call centres who are qualified doctors and lawyers, arguably better educated and qualified than him! They haven't chosen to work in a call centre, they chose to study for years to become incredibly qualified professionals. Circumstance, geography and luck has placed them where they are. I'm sure they'd rather go home, be close to their families and practice their preferred professions. But they are condemned in SA, like they would be here by the scared ****s, for "stealing" jobs.

 

[steveninaster1]

Could he get any worse? Jeremy Corbyn left red-faced after huge PMQs gaffe
http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-prime-ministers-question-imf-ifs-theresa-may

**** off you sad echo chamber

 

[pieguts]

Family members aren't being left behind in war zones. They are being left in refugee camps .

I'm not sure that's what either Stan or Hull were claiming and the reference to television clips does not support what you saying either Steve.

 

[steveninaster1]

I'm not sure that's what either Stan or Hull were claiming and the reference to television clips does not support what you saying either Steve.

The UNHCR confirm that those fleeing syria match the demographics of the country but that the bulk of those in refugee centres are women and children.

 

[Stan]

I'm not sure that's what either Stan or Hull were claiming and the reference to television clips does not support what you saying either Steve.

I'm claiming that Dull, Kustard, Pete and the rest of the scared ****s are sermonising about what they'd do if they were put in a situation that they have absolutely no understanding of. They don't even want these people living in the same country as them so how are they so well qualified to judge them?

It's very easy to sit in a caravan in Kiddy or a council office in Hull, relying on the state to pay your rent, and lecture about what you'd do if your terrified family were living in a war zone and under the threat of a band of psychopaths murdering you for sport.

 

[pieguts]

The UNHCR confirm that those fleeing syria match the demographics of the country but that the bulk of those in refugee centres are women and children.

I'm not debating those statistics, but again the comments from both Stan and Hull were around where does the initial member flee too, to try to secure an escape for his other family members (whether currently residing in a camp or fending for thereselves)

 

[Stan]

Kustard, I've asked this several times but you refuse to answer the question: why are you so scared of living near people who aren't Christian (despite the fact that you say you don't believe in religion) or who were born in England?

 

[Stan]

I'm not debating those statistics, but again the comments from both Stan and Hull were around where does the initial member flee too, to try to secure an escape for his other family members (whether currently residing in a camp or fending for thereselves)

Pieguts, what do you consider to be the acceptable escape strategy from a war zone? I don't think there is a text book approach to it despite the fact that the scared ****s seem to think it's like arranging a family day out to Alton Towers.

 

[pieguts]

I'm claiming that Dull, Kustard, Pete and the rest of the scared ****s are sermonising about what they'd do if they were put in a situation that they have absolutely no understanding of. They don't even want these people living in the same country as them so how are they so well qualified to judge them?

It's very easy to sit in a caravan in Kiddy or a council office in Hull, relying on the state to pay your rent, and lecture about what you'd do if your terrified family were living in a war zone and under the threat of a band of psychopaths murdering you for sport.

I understand your comments, but unless you have experienced this yourself, you're not qualified to pass judgment on others?
I will flip the question Stan. If the UK had a civil war which you were able to flee from and then send for your family, where would do that from? The closest "safe" country or one many thousands of miles away.
This safe country may not be you or your families final destination because of a whole raft of other social or economic benefits.
I don't think on this occasion Hull was saying they shouldn't be allowed into the UK as refugees, it was more around trying to ensure your families safety from the closet "safe" neighbouring country.
And how have we gone from "simpleton to ****s"?

 

[pieguts]

Pieguts, what do you consider to be the acceptable escape strategy from a war zone? I don't think there is a text book approach to it despite the fact that the scared ****s seem to think it's like arranging a family day out to Alton Towers.

I don't have a strategy as fortunately I've never needed one. I would like to think as per a previous post (was typing that as this was posted), that I would initially try to remain as close to other family members as safely possible, whilst trying to get us reunited. However, this is a very simplistic view and is likely to be ridiculed by yourself.

 

[Stan]

I understand your comments, but unless you have experienced this yourself, you're not qualified to pass judgment on others?
I will flip the question Stan. If the UK had a civil war which you were able to flee from and then send for your family, where would do that from? The closest "safe" country or one many thousands of miles away.
This safe country may not be you or your families final destination because of a whole raft of other social or economic benefits.
I don't think on this occasion Hull was saying they shouldn't be allowed into the UK as refugees, it was more around trying to ensure your families safety from the closet "safe" neighbouring country.
And how have we gone from "simpleton to ****s"?

The only people I'm judging are the scared ****s who are judging the unfortunate people who are trying to escape hell on earth.

 

[Stan]

I don't have a strategy as fortunately I've never needed one. I would like to think as per a previous post (was typing that as this was posted), that I would initially try to remain as close to other family members as safely possible, whilst trying to get us reunited. However, this is a very simplistic view and is likely to be ridiculed by yourself.

I don't ridicule, I rationalise.

 

[steveninaster1]

I don't have a strategy as fortunately I've never needed one. I would like to think as per a previous post (was typing that as this was posted), that I would initially try to remain as close to other family members as safely possible, whilst trying to get us reunited. However, this is a very simplistic view and is likely to be ridiculed by yourself.

Isn't it great seeing rational thought applied to an irrational situation. Comparing how people say they would escape a burning building and how they actually escape in real circumstances often shows that those claiming they would save women and children are the first to run out screaming.