The EU debate - Part III

[DMD]

,,

Well they aren't. Again, for the umpteenth time, you accuse others of something which you do yourself. Have you given an opinion on any of your own clips or on her?

You'd have the start of a point if you and your buddies didn't keep trying to gloss over the fact I did answer your question, even though I saw it as a poor attempt to change the subject away from your obvious discomfort at exploring the wider topics.

Now that's cleared up and you're trying to be a bit more adult, are you going to discuss it, or just run and hide as normal?

 

[NSIS]

He said himself this morning she'd lose.

He's probably forgotten.

TBF, I predicted in a round about sort of way by saying she wouldn't win.

I obviously hope she doesn't win, but in this bizarre political atmosphere, who knows?...

 

[petersaxton]

When did I say that it was the extent of EU reform? When did I even hint at that?
I explicitly stated that it wasn't the way to go about that.

what would you have done then?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

,,


You'd have the start of a point if you and your buddies didn't keep trying to gloss over the fact I did answer your question, even though I saw it as a poor attempt to change the subject away from your obvious discomfort at exploring the wider topics.

Now that's cleared up and you're trying to be a bit more adult, are you going to discuss it, or just run and hide as normal?

More hypocrisy. How refreshing. I suppose you don't so much run and hide as enter the battlefield without saying which side you're fighting for.

You gave as evasive an answer as possible which looks increasingly stupid as even if you knew nothing of her before (but still copy and pasted links about her) you do now.

 

[Tobes]

TBF, I predicted in a round about sort of way by saying she wouldn't win.

I obviously hope she doesn't win, but in this bizarre political atmosphere, who knows?...

She's a fascist who's curbed her tone in order to become more mainstream.

The fact she sees Putin as a more preferable partner than the US is a worry - albeit she's bankrolled by a Russian bank, owned by Putin's mate....

She's preaching the same sort of isolationism that we've seen here and the US this year. Will the French go for it? Not sure, I think it'll be closer than it ought to be though.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

what would you have done then?

To reform the EU?
Work with other countries that aren't happy about the aspects that you want to change.
Repeatedly **** UKIP off in public about their refusal to do any work or vote on anything that they're supposed to be interested in.
Demand changes to the financial transparency of the organisation and lobbying off it.

 

[DMD]

This is why I can't take you seriously.

May I remind you of the actual conversation. You asked for my opinion on how we should proceed given where we are, I answered, saying that single market access was absolutely key to our economic future.

You replied with;

Granted, at present, it does, but who knows what the future holds. But even if it's your favoured option, it's not the only one, so it's foolish to chuck all the eggs in one basket.

To which I asked;

What other options to retaining our single market access do you think would provide us with a growing economy moving forwards? As you're saying there's other options, what are they?

Your answer;

There is pretty much the options that the world outside the EU use, and a bundle of others countries in Europe use. It's far from limited to just your one option.

So I asked which European countries you were referring to, you came back with a list, that were either in the single market anyway, or have applied to join the EU - the only exception being Russia.

We're a European country, so what the rest of the World do, is irrelevant, as our key market is the one on our doorstep - the EU.

So with every European country barring Russia (which is partly in Asia anyway) and a Superstate, what other options are there for our future economic prosperity that the entire continent has somehow missed? It's not simplification or narrowing down anything, it's a straightforward question.

You could add America to your argument, they trade in the single market too, as do some other countries. They trade elsewhere as well. It's why I said your view is limited, and your argument narrow and what the rest of the world, and some countries in Europe do, is far from irrelevant. Particularly as the world is opening up to trade and deals.

 

[DMD]

More hypocrisy. How refreshing. I suppose you don't so much run and hide as enter the battlefield without saying which side you're fighting for.

You gave as evasive an answer as possible which looks increasingly stupid as even if you knew nothing of her before (but still copy and pasted links about her) you do now.

I gave an honest answer, unlike you.

So, now that bit of teddy flinging is over, care to going back to discussing the actual policies?

 

[Tobes]

You could add America to your argument, they trade in the single market too, as do some other countries. They trade elsewhere as well. It's why I said your view is limited, and your argument narrow and what the rest of the world, and some countries in Europe do, is far from irrelevant. Particularly as the world is opening up to trade and deals.

When did the US gain tariff free access to the EU single market?

 

[petersaxton]

To reform the EU?
Work with other countries that aren't happy about the aspects that you want to change.
Repeatedly **** UKIP off in public about their refusal to do any work or vote on anything that they're supposed to be interested in.
Demand changes to the financial transparency of the organisation and lobbying off it.

are you saying that without the UKs backing nothing could get done?

 

[DMD]

When did the US gain tariff free access to the EU single market?

When did you mention tariff free in your point?

In case you get forgetful.

May I remind you of the actual conversation. You asked for my opinion on how we should proceed given where we are, I answered, saying that single market access was absolutely key to our economic future.

You replied with;

Granted, at present, it does, but who knows what the future holds. But even if it's your favoured option, it's not the only one, so it's foolish to chuck all the eggs in one basket.

To which I asked;

What other options to retaining our single market access do you think would provide us with a growing economy moving forwards? As you're saying there's other options, what are they?

Your answer;

There is pretty much the options that the world outside the EU use, and a bundle of others countries in Europe use. It's far from limited to just your one option.
So I asked which European countries you were referring to, you came back with a list, that were either in the single market anyway, or have applied to join the EU - the only exception being Russia.

We're a European country, so what the rest of the World do, is irrelevant, as our key market is the one on our doorstep - the EU.

So with every European country barring Russia (which is partly in Asia anyway) and a Superstate, what other options are there for our future economic prosperity that the entire continent has somehow missed? It's not simplification or narrowing down anything, it's a straightforward question.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

are you saying that without the UKs backing nothing could get done?

No. Where did you get that from?

 

[The Zlatan]

Cherry picking of parts of the piece whilst deliberately completely ignoring the salient point and why I ****ing posted it

According to Hall, there is a new type of racism — “cultural racism,” which is my focus here. Racism is no longer about race (skin color) but culture. People are Othered and discriminated against not (simply) because of the color of their skin (or other phenotypes) but because of their beliefs and practices associated with some “imagined culture.”
Cultural racism, therefore, happens when certain people perceive their beliefs and customs as being culturally superior to the beliefs and customs of other groups of people. Cultural racism, in-turn, reproduces the idea of “the hierarchy of cultures,” meaning, in the context of current affairs, that “our” Western culture is superior to “their” Islamic culture. This way of thinking is problematic because it essentializes diverse classifications like “Westerners” and “Muslims.” It creates a binary of “Western = civilized” and “Islamic = uncivilized.”

There's your beliefs summed up in a paragraph.

The idea that your attempted semantics somehow makes you - a person who thinks that the spread of black skin amongst the UK populous is something that needs to be countered and is an open Islamophobe - not a racist, is laughable in it's idiocy. You're a racist pure and simple, your views are akin to White Supremacists, you judge people on their skin colour or religion not their actual individual beliefs about where they live i.e. in the UK.

As in your tiny little warped mind, you've concluded that Muslims full stop are a threat. You have lumped the entire Muslim UK community into the same category, based solely on your small minded, bigoted and racist outlook. Your fascist 'solution' to the 'problem' is to promote a breeding programme amongst whites ffs, and yet you're somehow not a racist? Get to **** to absolute belter.

Flat out wrong. I have addressed the 'salient' point of the article in my first response after it was posted, you completely chose to ignore it (which I've already called you out for) and decided to go after the parts that you could call me a racist for while accusing me of ignoring the article. Everyone can see what you are doing. You can keep trying to divert attention as much as you like, but it's not working.

 

[Tobes]

When did you mention tariff free in your point?

In case you get forgetful.

That's the entire point of retaining our single market access

Do you even understand how it works?

 

[DMD]

That's the entire point of retaining our single market access

Do you even understand how it works?

So there's no point at all in the trade that the US and others do with the EU then. okey doke.

The fact remains, as convenient as it may or may not be there are other options for trade, which is where this all started.

 

[Tobes]

Flat out wrong. I have addressed the 'salient' point of the article in my first response after it was posted, you completely chose to ignore it (which I've already called you out for) and decided to go after the parts that you could call me a racist for while accusing me of ignoring the article. Everyone can see what you are doing. You can keep trying to divert attention as much as you like, but it's not working.

Piss poor response, that's nothing more than - **** I've been downed again.

You are a racist, as you've proven yourself to be with numerous posts over the last month or so. Hence the reason you've been labelled as such on here, by everyone of sane mind.

 

[petersaxton]

No. Where did you get that from?

well seeing has you were saying the UK weren't doing much I wondered why the other countries hadn't reformed the EU already

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I gave an honest answer, unlike you.

So, now that bit of teddy flinging is over, care to going back to discussing the actual policies?

You claim to know nothing about them. Perhaps it's best to watch your own links or do some reading first. Pete's list will do.

Even when I said I was against the death penalty you don't commit to an opinion on it going with "I'll accept it either way". It's not like anyone here knows your identity. What do you have to gain from not giving an opinion?

This is a rhetorical question of course.

 

[Tobes]

So there's no point at all in the trade that the US and others do with the EU then. okey doke.

The fact remains, as convenient as it may or may not be there are other options for trade, which is where this all started.

Oh look a strawman

The simple fact is that our EU single market access is vital to our economy, not only for tariff free trade, but also due to customs clearance, which in the World of 'just in time' deliveries is essential for efficiency and losing it would not only make our goods more expensive but also at a distinct disadvantage in the European market

Pointing at the US and saying look we trade with them, also avoids the point that most of our manufacturing industry is foreign owned and is based here in order to have access to the European market btw.

No free access means a massive downturn in Global business locating (or retaining their bases) here in the medium / long term.

I've asked you what those other options are, and you're still yet to tell me

 

[The Zlatan]

Piss poor response, that's nothing more than - **** I've been downed again.

You are a racist, as you've proven yourself to be with numerous posts over the last month or so. Hence the reason you've been labelled as such on here, by everyone of sane mind.

Go back and address what I said about your 'salient' point...

You won't, you know you're wrong, you just want the last word now.