The EU debate - Part III

[The Prime Minister]

Change will come to the EU. It's both necessary and, I believe, inevitable.

We should have stayed and had a seat at the table pushing for, and driving that change. Instead, we're on the outside peering in and unable to change anything.

As for the so called exit 'strategy', let's not even go there. The EU leaders and negotiators are giggling behind our backs at the sheer level of incompetence

We have been trying for years with no luck, so why stay, better out and waving to the sinking ship called the EU.
France if Le Pen wins will quit the EU same with the Dutch and Italy.

UK gets trade deals while the EU fumble with its head up its own ass.

 

[DMD]

Their entire strategy on tackling the deficit has failed miserably.

Our debt has increased by £600BN under this lot, you absolute belter, in addition to that complete failure our spending on investment and infrastructure has fallen from 3.4% of GDP when Labour left power, to 2% in 2016. So we've incurred debt whilst gaining nothing.

2007 -£529 bn
2008 -£561 bn
2009 -£769 bn
2010 -£1004 bn
2011 -£1149 bn
2012 -£1242 bn
2013 -£1352 bn
2014 -£1459 bn
2015 -£1546 bn
2016 -£1590 bn

Perhaps, but it's where we are, and where we move on from. Playing with the cards we've got, what's your considered opinion on how we move forward in a world outside the EU?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

So, your view on the comparison between the EU policies on protectionism and on border control relative to Le Penn's is....?

One has some thought behind it economically and one is an arbitrary figure with no economic rationale aimed at pandering to her followers rather than benefitting France.

Why should I explain any thoughts further when you don't give an opinion on anything?

You must be quite close to learning enough about her to have an opinion on whether you want her to win.

 

[DMD]

One has some thought behind it economically and one is an arbitrary figure with no economic rationale aimed at pandering to her followers rather than benefitting France.

Why should I explain any thoughts further when you don't give an opinion on anything?

You must be quite close to learning enough about her to have an opinion on whether you want her to win.

When you say that the EU measures on protectionism has economic thought behind it, other than where the borders are, how does that differ from Le Penn's policy?

Likewise, the EU limits the access of those outside of its borders, so other than where the line is drawn, how is that different to Le Penn's French version?

 

[Stan]

The weird thing is that the lefties get upset when the Conservatives go slower on tackling the deficit and howl with rage when they go faster on tackling the deficit. The reality is that there's only so much that the government can do on taxing the rich because the more tax goes up the less the government receives because people don't bother working so hard, the rich leave the country and people are less likely to set up businesses here.

Doesn't matter whether you're a lefty or a righty, the fact is the Tories haven't tackled the deficit, they've made it a lot bigger. Only a Nazi, garage dwelling, kick the foreign bastards out at all costs, **** can't see that the Tories have failed dramatically on this issue.

Tory Stan

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

When you say that the EU measures on protectionism has economic thought behind it, other than where the borders are, how does that differ from Le Penn's policy?

Likewise, the EU limits the access of those outside of its borders, so other than where the line is drawn, how is that different to Le Penn's French version?

Do you just ask questions? You've still not said if you want her to win.

 

[DMD]

Do you just ask questions? You've still not said if you want her to win.

I did answer that, I said I don't know enough to decide, and am grateful to someone as knowledgeable as you on her policies to help me get an idea what they are. So far, you seem to be saying they're similar to the current EU policies.

 

[Tobes]

Perhaps, but it's where we are, and where we move on from. Playing with the cards we've got, what's your considered opinion on how we move forward in a world outside the EU?

I've said it many times, full single market access is essential if we're to ride this out within a couple of years.

May's idea of trying to get the 2 year period extended to maybe 5+ makes sense, but if she doesn't achieve that goal, and the 2 years end without agreement (which imo is an absolute certainty) then falling back on WTO tariffs would be a disaster for our future. As it'd result in a fall in investment to levels not seen in the modern era.

We can't continue to borrow our way out of the shortfall indefinitely - our debt levels are already at circa 90% of GDP under this lot, if GDP falls - as the debt continues to increase - then we're in for an extended period of genuine pain.

 

[NSIS]

We have been trying for years with no luck, so why stay, better out and waving to the sinking ship called the EU.
France if Le Pen wins will quit the EU same with the Dutch and Italy.

UK gets trade deals while the EU fumble with its head up its own ass.

Except it's not going to happen.

The French will not elect Le Pen. They will also not leave the EU, and it will be the UK with its head stuck up its own arse. Which won't really change much as that's where the Gvt has their's now!...

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I did answer that, I said I don't know enough to decide, and am grateful to someone as knowledgeable as you on her policies to help me get an idea what they are. So far, you seem to be saying they're similar to the current EU policies.

Pete, the usually useless fat xenophobe you felch, provided a nice list. I've never pretended to be an expert on her- one doesn't have to be to have an opinion. You must have an opinion based on what you know. Perhaps one based on the links you paste on here with no context or opinion attached?

 

[DMD]

Pete, the usually useless fat xenophobe you felch, provided a nice list. I've never pretended to be an expert on her- one doesn't have to be to have an opinion. You must have an opinion based on what you know. Perhaps one based on the links you paste on here with no context or opinion attached?

You voiced a very clear opinion on her policies, I assumed you'd done a bit of reading to come to that conclusion, but seemingly not.

 

[NSIS]

Assuming that the EU still exists in any meaningful form in the near future.

Plenty inside are fearful for its future, particularly economically. The rest of the world is looking like an attractive trading market for countries less encumbered.

Inside the EU is also not where we are, so it's fairly meaningless to consider.

The EU will still exist

We won't be in it...

And, yes, it's very meaningful to consider because we could and should have been there helping to bring about the necessary modernisation of the union.,

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

You voiced a very clear opinion on her policies, I assumed you'd done a bit of reading to come to that conclusion, but seemingly not.

You can assume what you like. I assume you're an argumentative **** afraid to voice his far right opinions and you've done nothing to suggest otherwise.

 

[DMD]

I've said it many times, full single market access is essential if we're to ride this out within a couple of years.

May's idea of trying to get the 2 year period extended to maybe 5+ makes sense, but if she doesn't achieve that goal, and the 2 years end without agreement (which imo is an absolute certainty) then falling back on WTO tariffs would be a disaster for our future. As it'd result in a fall in investment to levels not seen in the modern era.

We can't continue to borrow our way out of the shortfall indefinitely - our debt levels are already at circa 90% of GDP under this lot, if GDP falls - as the debt continues to increase - then we're in for an extended period of genuine pain.

That presupposes the single market exists, but alternatives such as free trade areas and customs unions could equally be the way forward, and advancing those could reduce the impact of the single market anyway. It would bring Europe more in line with the rest of the world, so better equipped for the future.

 

[DMD]

You can assume what you like. I assume you're an argumentative **** afraid to voice his far right opinions and you've done nothing to suggest otherwise.

It seems you not having a clue, and simply spouting media sound bites is a fact, and accounts for that petulant reply.

 

[DMD]

The EU will still exist

We won't be in it...

And, yes, it's very meaningful to consider because we could and should have been there helping to bring about the necessary modernisation of the union.,

But we're not there, so the EU as was doesn't exist.

I should have won the lottery, but I didn't so I can't live my life as if I have. It's just a harsh reality.

 

[Tobes]

That presupposes the single market exists, but alternatives such as free trade areas and customs unions could equally be the way forward, and advancing those could reduce the impact of the single market anyway. It would bring Europe more in line with the rest of the world, so better equipped for the future.

Which it does....so it's a moot point.

 

[DMD]

Which it does....so it's a moot point.

Granted, at present, it does, but who knows what the future holds. But even if it's your favoured option, it's not the only one, so it's foolish to chuck all the eggs in one basket.

 

[Tobes]

But we're not there, so the EU as was doesn't exist.

I should have won the lottery, but I didn't so I can't live my life as if I have. It's just a harsh reality.

Eh? There's 27 other nations still part of it, just because we've opted out, it's not going to suddenly become an irrelevance.

 

[pieguts]

The EU will still exist

We won't be in it...

And, yes, it's very meaningful to consider because we could and should have been there helping to bring about the necessary modernisation of the union.,

Sorry this is where you and I disagree.
My view is that a "remain" vote would have been the green light to carry on, as is.
Why modernise if people appear to be happy?