The EU debate - Part III

[DMD]

No,

if they're a celebrity, it would hardly be necessary, would it?..

The mention of a person's career hardly equates to the gratuitous mentioning of their faith or ethnicity.

I disagree. As the current investigation seems to suggest, there is a culture of child abuse in some areas, including the so called elite of politicians and celebrities, as well as painful as some find it, some other religious based cultures. Trying to deny that risks not resolving the over all issue, and offers some perverts a place to hide. It's not saying all celebrities or asians are perverts, but that those things were a factor in why the abuse continued as it did.

 

[NSIS]

I disagree. As the current investigation seems to suggest, there is a culture of child abuse in some areas, including the so called elite of politicians and celebrities, as well as painful as some find it, some other religious based cultures. Trying to deny that risks not resolving the over all issue, and offers some perverts a place to hide.

As has been pointed out, these grooming gangs account for a minute percentage of the total.

There is absolutely no other reason for the likes of the Fail to keep mentioning that they're Muslim, other than their usual attempts at influencing their readership into thinking what they want them to.

I agree these people should be hounded wherever they are. But the repeated mentioning of the offenders ethnicity serves no other purpose than repeated attempts to spread the publisher's own prejudices.

 

[DMD]

As has been pointed out, these grooming gangs account for a minute percentage of the total.

There is absolutely no other reason for the likes of the Fail to keep mentioning that they're Muslim, other than their usual attempts at influencing their readership into thinking what they want them to.

I agree these people should be hounded wherever they are. But the repeated mentioning of the offenders ethnicity serves no other purpose than repeated attempts to spread the publisher's own prejudices.

But as also was pointed out, the abuse was allowed to continue because of fears of being accused of racism, and of fears that the local community, rather than seek out the perverts, would riot at the allegation. It's why the undercover programme that revealed it over a decade ago was pulled,and the abuse continued.

They're hardly singled out, as Catholic Priests and care homes get a similar mention, as do politicians and celebrities. That's because it is, without a doubt, a factor with sections within those groups and contributed to how they sourced victims.

Not all politicians and celebrities and priests are perverts, but the others don't seem to feel marginalised at the revelation people within their group are sexual deviants and others helped cover it up.

The mention of such things is hardly a trait of just one element of the media either.

 

[NSIS]

But as also was pointed out, the abuse was allowed to continue because of fears of being accused of racism, and of fears that the local community, rather than seek out the perverts, would riot at the allegation. It's why the undercover programme that revealed it over a decade ago was pulled,and the abuse continued.

They're hardly singled out, as Catholic Priests and care homes get a similar mention, as do politicians and celebrities. That's because it is, without a doubt, a factor with sections within those groups and contributed to how they sourced victims.

Not all politicians and celebrities and priests are perverts, but the others don't seem to feel marginalised at the revelation people within their group are sexual deviants and others helped cover it up.

The mention of such things is hardly a trait of just one element of the media either.

The covering up is, of course, unacceptable. And those responsible should be brought to account.

A tiny minority of Catholic priests abused children who were placed in their care. Celebrities, like Saville, did it because they felt secure that victims would be too intimidated by their status to report him. Or because others, who were possibly aware of his activities, would not be believed if they did speak out.

I don't recall the same constant outcry from The Fail, constantly mentioning 'Catholic' priests.

The incidents we're discussing were perpetuated by street gangs recruiting and grooming teenage girls. I'm still of the opinion that mentioning they're faith is irrelevant in context of their offenses.

 

[PowerSpurs]

I agree that the media have an aversion to giving the moderates a voice. That is shameful.

For me, it means the moderates need to push harder. They don't seem to struggle to roll out a "community leader" for other events. I know some will argue they shouldn't need to, but if they don't, they have less of an argument for being lumped with the extremists.

That is effectively saying that Muslims are guilty unless they prove themselves innocent.

 

[Stan]

Should they fail to mention when the accused is a politician or celebrity too?

 

[DMD]

The covering up is, of course, unacceptable. And those responsible should be brought to account.

A tiny minority of Catholic priests abused children who were placed in their care. Celebrities, like Saville, did it because they felt secure that victims would be too intimidated by their status to report him. Or because others, who were possibly aware of his activities, would not be believed if they did speak out.

I don't recall the same constant outcry from The Fail, constantly mentioning 'Catholic' priests.

The incidents we're discussing were perpetuated by street gangs recruiting and grooming teenage girls. I'm still of the opinion that mentioning they're faith is irrelevant in context of their offenses.

It's not just about the mail, the additional descriptors are a trait shared by most, if not all of the media. Catholic Priests and care homes have long been mentioned when the link was with abuse.

It wasn't simply street gangs, it was systematic abuse by a section in that community, and their religion and ethnicity was a factor in why it continued for a decade or more after it was revealed. That is in direct context.

It would be less relevant if we had a clear value in British society, and that any section of British Society including the elite, would be brought to task without fear or favour.

If political leaning is to be brought into it, the left is to blame for the erosion of the sense of these Islands identity, and the promulgation of the idea that even mentioning certain races or religions is automatically racist. Those people hid behind that.

 

[The Prime Minister]

That is effectively saying that Muslims are guilty unless they prove themselves innocent.

Not at all

 

[DMD]

That is effectively saying that Muslims are guilty unless they prove themselves innocent.

To an extent, yes. That's largely due to the perceptions of people that look into the ideology, and of the mainstream coverage. People make personal comments on here, yet don't back them up. The onus falls on the one accused to either ignore it, and let it sit, or challenge it and call bullshit.

When an ideology is using the name of the group you represent, I'd say you do have a duty to yourself and that ideology to call bullshit.

 

[Stan]

Not at all

Love the fact I've got inside your tiny little mind Kustard. So much so that, in your fury, you've managed to **** up the spelling of Stanley.

Mission accomplished

 

[Stan]

PM warned British jobs may go abroad if she limits immigration

http://news.sky.com/story/pm-warned-british-jobs-may-go-abroad-if-she-limits-immigration-10660054

London is a city celebrated for attracting the world's best talent and offering opportunity.

It is why Ritu Soni, a single parent to two girls, made the move from India to the UK five years ago.

She is sponsored to work by mobile telecoms company Lebara, and says she has noticed a change in attitude towards her family since the vote to leave the EU which has made her feel unwelcome.

"Suddenly there was Brexit and bam!" she said. "The next morning the girls woke up and they're brown. It really gutted me to notice that.

"It took me a long time to get them to understand that even in the modern, developed world there are people who now have a licence to be xenophobic or carry out racist attacks."

 

[PowerSpurs]

If political leaning is to be brought into it, the left is to blame for the erosion of the sense of these Islands identity, and the promulgation of the idea that even mentioning certain races or religions is automatically racist. Those people hid behind that.

This is absolutely wrong. The problem is actually that the ethnic majority is always given the benefit of the doubt or even protected by the system if they are in the 'elite' whereas minorities are harassed routinely on grounds that can only be described as racist. The old joke that it suspicious to be black and driving a BMW is only too true. The solution is quite easy: stop discriminating and then there will be no grounds for accusations of racism. Blaming the 'left' for actually having the temerity to point out that racism exists is missing the point completely.
There are an awful lot of people around with racist beliefs. One issue with the current laws making some racism criminal is that people find ways of hiding their racism. But that doesn't mean it is somehow all right to put up with it.

 

[DMD]

This is absolutely wrong. The problem is actually that the ethnic majority is always given the benefit of the doubt or even protected by the system if they are in the 'elite' whereas minorities are harassed routinely on grounds that can only be described as racist. The old joke that it suspicious to be black and driving a BMW is only too true. The solution is quite easy: stop discriminating and then there will be no grounds for accusations of racism. Blaming the 'left' for actually having the temerity to point out that racism exists is missing the point completely.
There are an awful lot of people around with racist beliefs. One issue with the current laws making some racism criminal is that people find ways of hiding their racism. But that doesn't mean it is somehow all right to put up with it.

I think a fair few, especially on the left have an odd idea of what "racism" is. They contribute to the problem they claim to be defending. That ideology is failing, and should do so sooner rather than later in favour of a more uniting ideology we can all get behind.

The elite are a minority. The majority are after them with pitchforks and castration shears.

 

[PowerSpurs]

I think a fair few have an odd idea of what "racism" is.

Yes - mostly on the right who seem to think for example, that a higher proportional crime rate amongst blacks justifies things like stop and search being applied in a discriminatory way. This is wrong on so many levels that I have not got time to list them. But the most important one is that it says 'innocence until proven guilty' doesn't apply equally.

 

[Stan]

Fantastically hysterical article in the Daily Kustard today. As ever, no evidence to support the content of the article but the use of capital letters in the title proves that it's true

JUNCKER'S POWER GRAB: British intelligence could be snatched by EU unless we Leave NOW

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-defence-British-intelligence-services-Brexit

 

[Stan]

Brilliant

Theresa May has backing of the sensible majority

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/733139/Theresa-May-backing-sensible-majority

 

[DMD]

Yes - mostly on the right who seem to think for example, that a higher proportional crime rate amongst blacks justifies things like stop and search being applied in a discriminatory way. This is wrong on so many levels that I have not got time to list them. But the most important one is that it says 'innocence until proven guilty' doesn't apply equally.

It's largely in the left. Picking out one arguable issue on offender profiling doesn't support the bigger issue of the use of the term 'racist'.

It's become so misused as a means of stifling debate, it's counter productive.

 

[steveninaster1]

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[PowerSpurs]

It's largely in the left. Picking out one arguable issue on offender profiling doesn't support the bigger issue of the use of the term 'racist'.

It's become so misused as a means of stifling debate, it's counter productive.

The fact you think that is 'arguable' speaks volumes. It's use to stifle debate is just as likely on the right than on the left (eg by Zionists)

 

[DMD]

The fact you think that is 'arguable' speaks volumes. It's use to stifle debate is just as likely on the right than on the left (eg by Zionists)

The fact people at a variety of levels are debating it, I'd say arguable is a reasonable comment.

I don't disagree with the abuse of Zionist etc, it does the same thing. Neither are productive in resolving the problem.