The Epsom Derby

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TopClass

TopClass

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2011
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Had absolutely no interest in the antepost market for this since I got into racing but there is one I am on this year.

Toronado is the best High Chapparal juvenile I can ever remember seeing. He did not set the world alight but he was kept away from the tough Group 1s. He reminds me so much of his father because he has a really beautifully balanced but aggressive running style, and I think he will love Epsom if he goes there. He sometimes looks workmanlike but that is because he responds to pressure, so I think he will be really interesting when he goes further up in trip.

He looks set for the 2000 Guineas but I think he will be hard pressed to beat Dawn Approach over the mile, and I suspect having run well in a Guineas and running on strongly, they will very much want to go the Epsom Derby route afterwards. He runs next Thursday on reappearance so anyone who would like a big price for to sit and wait on for the Derby should take it now.


You can rule out Kingsbarns for me- beat a ****e Racing Post Trophy field and has already had setbacks- it smacks a little bit of St Nicholas Abbeys classic season a couple of years back. He might be decent in time, but not ready for the classics IMO. Dawn Approach is not entered at the moment, and Mars has won an egg and spoon on the Dundalk sand! When you look at it like that, as a supporter of Toronado I would have to think 16/1 is a massive, massive price for the Derby?

Aiden O'Brien will surely throw a couple of darts at this and with his plans up in the air a little bit, Foundry might be one of his interesting 'outsiders' of this race. A lovely pedigree (Galileo out of a US 3YO Grade 1 Dirt Winner), he responded really well when asked when winning a 7f maiden at the back end of the last season so it strikes me that he has a bit of natural speed about him, as you would expect with his Dam being a US miler/9f dirt horse. He looked better the further he went and I suspect he might end up running in the Chester Derby trial in May and he has far more potential than The United States, Battle Of Marengo, and Ruler Of The World, and there must still be doubts around Kingsbarns until he runs. Mars will tell us a lot more in the Guineas but I think he will be well beaten in that and he has a lot to prove for a 10/1 shot!


TORONADO 16/1 5pts WIN.

FOUNDRY 20/1 2.5 pts each-way



2013 Epsom Derby Betting

Epsom Derby Race Trends
 
SaveTheHumans said:
If things go to plan from now to the Derby, what price can you envisage Toronado being on the day?
Click to expand...

Great question.

Always a big if but:


If he wins on reappearance next week, he drops to 10s (and probably 6s/7s for the Guineas).

If he runs well in the Guineas (places behind Dawn Approach), he probably starts off 6/1 for The Derby behind an Aiden O'Brien horse(s) and Telescope?
 
I have been interested in Toronado since I saw him win a competitive day on St Leger day last year.
I think he was suppposed to go for the Racing Post Trophy but missed that (hence Kingsbarns didnt have much to beat in that race!)
 
Second stage entries have been released for the Derby - 17 in total including DAWN APPROACH and Frankel's half-brother MORPHEUS:


RECORD 17 SECOND ENTRIES FOR 2013 INVESTEC DERBY​


A record 17 second entries are revealed today for the 2013 Investec Derby, which takes place over a mile and a half at Epsom Downs on Saturday, June 1. The premier Classic has a prize fund of at least £1.325 million and is Britain's richest race.

The second entry stage provides connections who did not enter at the initial yearling stage the opportunity to add three-year-olds to the premier Classic at a cost of £8,000. There were five second stage entries in 2012 and 12 in 2011. The previous record was 13 in 2008.

The third and final opportunity to enter the Investec Derby comes at the supplementary entry stage on Monday, May 27, when the fee rises to £75,000. The winner of the £50,000 Investec Derby Trial (run at the Investec Spring Meeting at Epsom Downs on Wednesday, April 24) will receive a wild-card entry into the Investec Derby, if not already holding an entry.

Dawn Approach, an 8/1 chance with Coral (see below for full list of odds), was unbeaten in six outings last season, ending the campaign with a pair of Group One victories in the Goffs Vincent O'Brien Stakes at the Curragh and in the Dubai Dewhurst Stakes at Newmarket to earn the accolade of European champion juvenile. The son of 2008 Investec Derby hero New Approach, trained by Jim Bolger, is one of three second entries from the Maktoum family's Godolphin operation. Godolphin has also made second entries for the Saeed bin Suroor-trained Secret Number, who finished strongly to be third in the Group Two UAE Derby at Meydan on March 30 and Steeler, from the stable of Mahmood Al Zarooni, who was successful in the Group Two Juddmonte Royal Lodge Stakes at Newmarket in 2012.

Sue Smith became the third female trainer to saddle a Grand National winner last Saturday but, to date, no Investec Derby scorer has been trained by a woman. That could change in 2013 with Willie The Whipper a possible starter for North Yorkshire-based Ann Duffield. The Whipper colt won a six-furlong maiden at Hamilton in August before taking the Listed Silver Tankard over a mile at Pontefract in October, following which he was sold to Qatar Racing Limited. He ended the campaign by taking second in the Group One Criterium De Saint-Cloud in November.

Duffield commented: "We are looking at the Investec Derby for Willie The Whipper. It's obviously tilting at windmills but he has got decent form - second in that French Group One - and we have always thought he is a very nice horse so he is entitled to have an entry.

"He is fine at the moment and will probably start off in the Chester Vase (May 9). He has strengthened up over the winter and come out of it well so we are very hopeful.

"We never got the opportunity to run him on anything over than heavy ground last year and, although he handled it well, we have always thought he would be better on better ground, but time will tell.

"He is out of a Slip Anchor mare who won over a mile and five furlongs so I don't think the step up to a mile and a half will be a problem."

Legendary Newmarket handler Sir Henry Cecil has won the Investec Derby four times, courtesy of Slip Anchor (1985), Reference Point (1987), Commander In Chief (1993) and Oath (1999), and the master of Warren Place has made second entries for three colts this year. The trio are Al Waab, a staying-on third behind Steeler in the Royal Lodge Stakes, the Khalid Abdullah-owned Morpheus, who finished down the field on his only start at Nottingham last season but is an Oasis Dream half-brother to the outstanding Frankel, and Squire Osbaldeston, who was third on his debut at Newmarket in August.

Fellow Newmarket handler William Haggas is the only current handler to have a 100 per cent record in the Investec Derby, having sent out Shaamit to victory with his only runner in 1996. Haggas has entered the unraced Battalion, a son of 2007 Investec Derby scorer Authorized.

Irish handler John Oxx is another trainer to have enjoyed multiple Investec Derby success thanks to Sinndar (2000) and Sea The Stars (2009) and he has made a second entry for the Aga Khan's Zand, the impressive winner of a Leopardstown maiden in October.

There is another Irish-trained second entry in the Andy Oliver-trained First Cornerstone. The son of Hurricane Run was successful twice over seven furlongs in 2012, taking the Listed Coolmore Canford Cliffs Stakes at Tipperary and the Group Two Futurity Stakes at the Curragh, with both of those victories coming in August. He finished the campaign with a close fourth behind Kingsbarns in the Group One Racing Post Trophy at Doncaster in October.

Oliver said: "First Cornerstone is in the Investec Derby, the Prix du Jockey Club and the Irish Derby. The idea would be to start him off in a Derby trial and then we will pick out which one to go for from there. We will just weigh things up nearer the time but it gives us some options.

"Physically, he has done well over the winter. He had a nice long break and really enjoyed himself. He is not a huge horse but he stands over a lot of ground and is a lovely, easy moving horse.

"On bare form, he looks as if he deserves an entry in the Investec Derby. Everything about him smacks that he will stay the trip and his current owners Team Valor said they want to aim him at one of the Derbys.

"He was a good two-year-old, winning a Listed race and a Group Two over seven furlongs on heavy ground. He then had a respiratory infection and went for the Racing Post Trophy on the back of that and his preparation wasn't as desirable as it could have been.

"He arrived at the two-furlong pole upsides Kingsbarns but Chris Hayes (jockey) said he gave a big blow and basically blew up. We were quite happy with the run and whether we would have troubled the winner or not, I don't like speculating too much, but I would have thought we could advance our position to some respect.

"He is a very relaxed horse and loves his work, and at this stage we are very happy with his preparation. We haven't asked him any serious questions yet but we will start to wind him up now.

"All things being equal, he will probably start off in the Derrinstown Derby Trial but we also have the option of running him in the Dante Stakes at York.

"We are a bit in the dark about how he will go on better ground. He has worked on a synthetic surface and although there are no problems, he is pounds or even stones better when he gets on the grass.

"He is a very sound and easy moving horse but he has done all his winning on soft or heavy ground. I'm not going to avoid better ground though because I have no reason to but it is something we will keep in mind."

Jeremy Noseda has made two second entries; Fantastic Moon, who was successful in the Group Three Solario Stakes at Sandown and the unraced Achtung, a full-brother to Authorized.

Van Der Neer, trained by Richard Hannon, has already laid down his credentials this season, having taken the Listed International Trial Stakes at Lingfield on April 6. Last season, the Dutch Art colt was successful on his first two starts before only finding Kingsbarns three-quarters of a length too good in the Racing Post Trophy.


The other second entries are the Kevin Ryan-trained Glory Awaits, King George River, who was previously trained by Aidan O'Brien but has won his last two starts for Alan Bailey, Libertarian, successful on debut at Pontefract on Tuesday (April 9) for Elaine Burke, and Mirsaale, from the Newmarket yard of James Tate.

Together with the remaining yearling entries, 125 three-year-olds in total go forward for glory in the 2013 Investec Derby.
 
Individual horse profiles:

ACHTUNG
b c Montjeu (IRE) - Funsie (FR) (Saumarez)
Form: Unraced
Owner: Paul Makin
Trainer: Jeremy Noseda
Breeder: Paulyn Ltd

Bred by his owner Paul Makin, Achtung is a full-brother to 2007 Derby hero Authorized and is closely related to Hydrogen, a son of champion sire Galileo who was knocked down for 2.5 million guineas at the Tattersalls October Yearling Sale last year and has been entered for the 2014 Investec Derby.

AL WAAB (IRE)
ch c Danehill Dancer (IRE) - Aunt Julia (In The Wings)
Form: 1123-
Owner: Mubarak Al Naemi
Trainer: Sir Henry Cecil
Breeder: Aunt Julia Syndicate

A 75,000 euro purchase at the Goffs Orby Yearling Sale in October, 2011, the son of Danehill Dancer was a comfortable winner of a seven-furlong maiden on his debut at Newmarket in July last year, before readily landing a novice event over the same course and distance on August 16. He continued his improvement at Newbury on September 8, when beaten a head by Havana Gold in the Listed Ascendant Stakes over a mile. That defeat did not deter connections and Al Waab rounded off his campaign with a staying-on third behind Steeler in the Group Two Royal Lodge Stakes at Newmarket on September 29.
Race Record: Starts: 4; Wins: 2; 2nd: 1; 3rd: 1 Win & Place Prize Money: £26,702

BATTALION (IRE)
b c Authorized (IRE) - Zigarra (Halling (USA))
Form: Unraced
Owner: Sheikh Juma Dalmook Al Maktoum
Trainer: William Haggas
Breeder: Kildaragh Stud

Battalion is from the family of Grade Two-winning US miler Silent Name and sold for 55,000 guineas at the Tattersalls October Yearling Sale in 2011. His trainer William Haggas has a 100 per cent record in the Derby, having saddled his only runner Shaamit to victory in 1996.

DAWN APPROACH (IRE)
ch c New Approach (IRE) - Hymn Of The Dawn (USA) (Phone Trick (USA))
Form: 111111-
Owner: Godolphin
Trainer/Breeder: Jim Bolger IRE

Dawn Approach is from the first crop of New Approach, who was trained by Jim Bolger to win eight of his 11 starts including five Group One contests - the National Stakes (2007), Dewhurst Stakes (2007), Investec Derby (2008), Irish Champion Stakes (2008) and Champion Stakes (2008). His dam, Hymn Of The Dawn, was also trained by Jim Bolger. Dawn Approach made his first appearance early last season, recording a comfortable victory over five furlongs at the Curragh on March 25 by a length and three-quarters from Canary Row. Next time out at Naas on May 16, he moved up to six furlongs and beat Canary Row once again, but this time he powered right away to win by an impressive five and a half lengths. The step up to Listed company was now on the agenda and Dawn Approach returned to Naas on June 4 to contest the Rochestown Stakes over six furlongs. He once again raced close to the pace and came away in the final furlong to take the honours by two and three-quarter lengths from Mister Marc with subsequent Group One winner Pedro The Great back in fifth. A further progression in class then beckoned with Dawn Approach making the trip across the Irish Sea to line up in the six-furlong Group Two Coventry Stakes on the opening day of Royal Ascot, June 19. Starting the 7/2 second favourite, Dawn Approach took a keen hold early before asserting in the final furlong to defeat subsequent dual Group Two winner Olympic Glory by three-quarters of a length. Following his Royal Ascot victory, Dawn Approach was purchased by Godolphin. His first start in the blue silks of Godolphin came in the Group One Vincent O'Brien Stakes over seven furlongs at the Curragh on September 15, when he was the warm 2/5 favourite. Settled in third behind the runaway leader Flying The Flag, Dawn Approach gave his supporters little cause for concern as he powered away in the final furlong for a decisive four and three-quarter length victory. For his final start of 2012, he returned to Britain to contest the Group One Dubai Dewhurst Stakes at Newmarket on October 13. Starting at 30/100, he was the comfortable two and three-quarter length victor from his stable companion Leitir Mor. He was given a rating of 124, 6lb clear of Kingsbarns in second, for his exploits last season earning him the accolade of European champion two-year-old.
Race Record: Starts: 6; Wins: 6; 2nd: -; 3rd: -; Win & Place Prize Money: £366,188

FANTASTIC MOON
ch c Dalakhani (IRE) - Rhadegunda (Pivotal)
Form: 1150-
Owner: Saeed Suhail
Trainer: Jeremy Noseda
Breeder: Hascombe and Valiant Studs

A son of 2003 Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe winner Dalakhani out of the nine-furlong Listed scorer Rhadegunda, Fantastic Moon realised 210,00 guineas at the 2011 Tattersalls October Yearling Sale. He made winning debut in a seven-furlong novice contest at Newmarket on August 3 last year, before lowering the colours of Royal Ascot victor Tha'ir in the Group Three Solario Stakes at Sandown on September 1. As a result, he was sent off favourite for the Group Two Royal Lodge Stakes over a mile at Newmarket later the same month but could never get involved, finishing fifth. His final outing of the season came at Santa Anita, USA, on November 3, when he trailed home 10th of 14 in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf after missing the break.
Race Record: Starts: 4; Wins; 2; 2nd: -; 3rd: -; Win & Place Prize Money: £27,554
 
FIRST CORNERSTONE (IRE)
ch c Hurricane Run (IRE) - Bintalreef (USA) (Diesis)
Form: 3114-
Owner: Team Valor International Llc
Trainer: Andrew Oliver IRE
Breeder: L K I Bloodstock Ltd

First Cornerstone comes from a family laden with stamina and his siblings include Group Three Jockey Club Cup third Buxted. The son of Hurricane Run shaped nicely when third on his debut over seven furlongs at Down Royal on July 27 last year, but stepped up considerably on that form when landing a Listed contest over the same trip at Tipperary on August 10, despite starting the 33/1 outsider of seven. He was subsequently purchased by leading international syndicate Team Valor and proved that effort was no fluke when recording a decisive length and half verdict over Flying The Flag in the Group Two Futurity Stakes at the Curragh on August 26. He ended the season with fourth in the Group One Racing Post Trophy at Doncaster on October 26, beaten three and three quarter lengths.
Race Record: Starts: 4; Wins: 2; 2nd: -; 3rd: 1; Win & Place Prize Money: £85,413

GLORY AWAITS (IRE)
ch c Choisir (AUS) - Sandbox Two (IRE) (Foxhound (USA))
Form: 0019344-
Owner: A & A
Trainer: Kevin Ryan
Breeder: J Fisher

Glory Awaits failed to make an impression in a pair of six furlong maidens at York and Ripon on his first two starts but sprung a surprise when stepped up to seven furlongs at Haydock on June 14, scoring by a nose at odds of 50/1. A combination of heavy ground and a step up in class found him out when last of nine in the Group Two Superlative Stakes at Newmarket on July 14, but he performed better back at the July Course when third of five in a competitive novice event won by Fantastic Moon the following month. The son of Choisir stepped up in trip and into handicap company for the first time at Doncaster on September 15, and ran respectably to finish fourth. He returned to Pattern company for a high-class renewal of the Group Three Autumn Stakes at Newmarket in October and put in a career best performance to finish fourth after making most of the running.
Race Record: Starts: 7; Wins: 1; 2nd: -; 3rd: 1; Win & Place Prize Money: £5,707

KING GEORGE RIVER (IRE)
b c Danehill Dancer (IRE) - Butterfly Blue (IRE) (Sadler´s Wells (USA))
Form: 17(3)-(2)(2)(1)(1)
Owner: John Stocker
Trainer: Alan Bailey
Breeder: Barrownstown Stud

Formerly with Aidan O'Brien, King George River made a winning debut for the Irish champion trainer with an easy two and a quarter length success at Gowran Park on July 3. He disappointed in a Listed contest at Tipperary in August and was subsequently sold to owner John Stocker for 34,000 guineas at the Tattersalls Autumn Horses-in-Training Sale. The son of Danehill Dancer made his debut for trainer Alan Bailey at Lingfield in December, coming home third in a novice event over a mile on Polytrack. After filling the runner-up spot in two handicaps at Lingfield in January and February respectively, he gained his first win for new connections in a mile handicap at the same course on February 15. He completed the double with a comfortable two and a half length victory in a nine-furlong handicap at Wolverhampton on March 7.
Race Record: Starts: 7; Wins: 3; 2nd: 2; 3rd: 1; Win & Place Prize Money: £21,026

LIBERTARIAN
b c New Approach (IRE) - Intrum Morshaan (IRE) (Darshaan)
Form: 1
Owner: Hubert John Strecker
Trainer: Elaine Burke
Breeder: Serpentine Bloodstock

From the first crop of 2008 Investec Derby hero New Approach, Libertarian is a half-brother to 10-furlong Group Three winner Prince Siegfried and realised 40,000 guineas at the Tattersalls Craven Breeze-Up Sale last spring. He did not run as a two-year-old but looked a horse of considerable potential when scoring comfortably over 10 furlongs at Pontefract on April 9, despite racing green throughout.
Race Record: Starts: 1; Wins: 1; 2nd: -; 3rd: -; Win & Place Prize Money: £5,175

MIRSAALE
ch c Sir Percy - String Quartet (IRE) (Sadler's Wells (USA))
Form: 5137-
Owner: Saif Ali
Trainer: James Tate
Breeder: Anthony & Victoria Pakenham

Epsom success runs through Mirsaale, being a son of 2006 Investec Derby winner Sir Percy and a half-brother to Meeznah, who was second past the post in the 2010 Investec Oaks. He was knocked down for 50,000 guineas to Rabbah Bloodstock on behalf of his owner Saif Ali at the 2011 Tattersalls October Yearling Sale and made an encouraging debut behind leading 2,000 Guineas hope Ghurair when fifth in a competitive seven-furlong maiden at Newmarket on July 13. He didn't need to improve to win a three-runner maiden easily at Brighton in August but took a step up when third in the Listed Ascendant Stakes over a mile at Newbury on September 8, beaten two and a half lengths. He dropped back to seven furlongs at Newmarket on October for a valuable Tattersalls sales contest and ran on from the back of the field to finish seventh.
Race Record: Starts: 4; Wins: 1; 2nd: -; 3rd: 1; Win & Place Prize Money: £10,671

MORPHEUS
b c Oasis Dream - Kind (IRE) (Danehill (USA))
Form: 7-
Owner: Khalid Abdullah
Trainer: Sir Henry Cecil
Breeder: Juddmonte Farms Ltd

The home-bred Morpheus comes from a revered family and has a lot to live up to. He is a half-brother to the outstanding Frankel, who was undefeated in 14 starts and is arguably the greatest Flat horse of all time, as well as Group Three scorers Noble Mission and Bullet Train. The son of Oasis Dream looked in need of the experience when finishing seventh on his debut over a mile at Nottingham on October 17.
Race Record: Starts: 1; Wins: -; 2nd: -; 3rd: -; Win & Place Prize Money: £0

SECRET NUMBER
b c Raven's Pass (USA) - Mysterial (USA) (Alleged (USA))
Form: (1)-(1)(3)
Owner: Godolphin
Trainer: Saeed bin Suroor
Breeder: Darley

Secret Number hails from a fine family. His siblings include Group One-winning milers Dubai Destination and Librettist who both carried the famous royal blue silks of Godolphin. After winning a Kempton Park maiden in October, Secret Number was next seen on March 9 in the Listed Al Bastakiya Stakes over nine and a half furlongs at Meydan, Dubai, on Tapeta. The son Raven's Pass was slowly into stride but, despite encountering trouble in running, stayed on well in the straight to record a comfortable two length success. He was the well-supported favourite for the Group Two UAE Derby over the same course and distance on Dubai World Cup Night but conceded a lot of ground at the start before staying on strongly in the closing stages to snatch third.
Race Record: Starts: 3; Wins: 2; 2nd: -; 3rd: 1; Win & Place Prize Money: £217,635

STEELER (IRE)
ch c Raven's Pass (USA) - Discreet Brief (IRE) (Darshaan)
Form: 212113-
Owner: Godolphin
Trainer: Mahmood Al Zarooni
Breeder: Airlie Stud

Steeler is out of Park Hill Stakes winner Discreet Brief and trainer Mark Johnston paid 80,000 guineas for the son of Raven's Pass at the 2011 Tattersalls October Yearling Sale. He finished to good effect over seven furlongs to take second, beaten a head, on his debut at Haydock in July, before overcoming greenness to land a valuable maiden over the same trip at Glorious Goodwood on August 4. A rise in class followed in the Group Three Acomb Stakes at York on August 22, and he was far from disgraced in second behind Roger Charlton's Dundonnell but returned to winning ways with cosy success in a Listed contest at Goodwood on September 4. Another win followed at Newmarket on September 29, when he relished to step up to a mile to land the Group Two Juddmonte Royal Lodge Stakes by a length. He was unsuited by the soft ground when third in the Group One Racing Post Trophy at Doncaster on his final start of the season. He has moved from Mark Johnston to Godolphin trainer Mahmood Al Zarooni for the forthcoming season.
Race Record: Starts: 6; Wins: 3; 2nd: 2; 3rd: 1; Win & Place Prize Money: £118,141

SQUIRE OSBALDESTON (IRE)
b c Mr Greeley (USA) - Kushnarenkovo (Sadler's Wells (USA)
Form: 3-
Owner: Paul Hickman & G Johns
Trainer: Sir Henry Cecil
Breeder: Kushnarenkovo Syndicate

A 100,000 guineas purchase at the 2011 Tattersalls October Yearling Sale, Squire Osbaldeston is out of sister to Racing Post Trophy and St Leger winner Brian Boru and from the family of 2010 Investec Derby hero Workforce. The son of Mr Greeley shaped with promise in third on his debut over a mile at Newmarket on August 17, beaten five lengths.
Race Record: Starts: 1; Won: -; 2nd: -; 3rd: 1; Win & Place Prize Money: £673
 
VAN DER NEER
b c Dutch Art - Lalectra (King Charlemagne (USA))
Form: 112-(1)
Owner: Saeed Manana
Trainer: Richard Hannon
Breeder: Jeremy Green & Sons

Van Der Neer, a 55,000 guineas purchase at the 2011 Tattersalls October Yearling Sale, created a big impression on his debut over six furlongs at Yarmouth on September 20 last year, scoring decisively by a length and three quarters. The son of Dutch Art readily accounted for a select field of previous winners when stepped up to seven furlongs at Leicester on October 16, before chasing home Kingsbarns in the Group One Racing Post Trophy over a mile at Doncaster 11 days later. He returned this season with a comfortable success in the Listed International Trial Stakes over a mile at Lingfield on April 6, and is now on course for the first Classic of the season, the QIPCO 2000 Guineas at Newmarket on May 4.
Race Record: Starts: 4; Wins: 3; 2nd: 1; 3rd: -; Win & Place Prize Money: £76,395

WILLIE THE WHIPPER
b c Whipper (USA) - Anna Simona (GER) (Slip Anchor)
Form: 112-
Owner: Qatar Racing Limited
Trainer: Ann Duffield
Breeder: J S B Anderson

Willie The Whipper was sold to Ann Duffield for a modest 21,000 euros at the Goresbridge Flat Breeze-Up Sale in May, 2012. Making his debut at Hamilton on August 30 in a six-furlong maiden, he was a well-supported 6/4 favourite and despite looking very green at times was the ultimately the very comfortable eight-length winner. After a break of just under two months, Willie The Whipper was next seen out at Pontefract on October 22 for the Listed Silver Tankard over a mile. Held up towards the rear, he stayed on well to record a smooth length and three-quarters victory. His owner Jimmy Kay sold Willie The Whipper privately to Qatar Racing before his third and final outing of 2012, which came in the Criterium de Saint-Cloud on November 10 - the only Group One for two-year-olds to take place over 10 furlongs. He raced much more prominently in the French contest but was unable to cope with the facile winner Morandi, who went on to score by seven lengths with Willie The Whipper plugging on for second. All his three runs so far have come on heavy ground.
Race Record: Starts: 3; Wins: 2; 2nd: 1: 3rd: -; Win & Place Prize Money: £63,903

ZAND (IRE)
b c Zamindar (USA) - Zanara (IRE) (Kahyasi)
Form: 21-
Owner: H H Aga Khan
Trainer: John Oxx IRE
Breeder: His Highness The Aga Khan's Studs S C

Zand comes from a family of strong stayers and is also related to Zarkava, who won the French fillies' Triple Crown - Poule d'Essai des Pouliches, Prix de Diane and Prix Vermeille - in 2008 before rounding off the campaign with a facile display against the colts in Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe. Zand was arguably unlucky not to make a winning debut over a mile at the Curragh on September 15 last year, staying on strongly to take second after encountering trouble in running, but dominated his rivals next time out with an impressive front-running performance at Leopardstown on October 27.
Race Record: Starts: 2; Wins: 1; 2nd: 1; 3rd: -; Win & Place Prize Money: £11,821
 
Full list of those who stand their ground:

THE 2013 INVESTEC DERBY​

Class 1, Group 1, £1,325,000 Total Prize Fund, 4.00pm, Epsom Downs, Saturday, June 1, 2013. For three-year-olds only, entire colts & fillies, one mile, four furlongs and 10 yards. Entries closed December 6, 2011 (442 entries). First scratchings deadline noon, March 5, 2013 (111 remained, 3 subsequently scratched), £8,000 secondary entry stage noon, April 9, 2013 (17 second entries received), second scratchings deadline noon, May 17, 2013, £75,000 supplementary entry & five-day confirmation stage, noon, May 27, 2013, final declaration stage 10am, May 30, 2013. Form figures supplied by Weatherbys and are correct up to and including the racing of Tuesday, April 9, 2013. May not include some overseas form.

Form Horse Owner Trainer

ACHTUNG Paul Makin Jeremy Noseda
(5)- AGREEMENT (IRE) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
1123- AL WAAB (IRE) Mubarak Al Naemi Sir Henry Cecil
51- AMRALAH (IRE) Prince A A Faisal Mick Channon
0333- ANOTHER COCKTAIL Michael Kerr-Dineen Hughie Morrison
ARBELAN (FR) H H Aga Khan Alain de Royer Dupre FR
114- ASHDAN Khalid Abdullah John Gosden
26121- ASK DAD Andrew Tinkler Richard Hannon
ATARAXIS (FR) Niarchos Family Sir Henry Cecil
4-3 AU REVOIR (IRE) Sue Magnier Aidan O'Brien IRE
3-1 BARADARI (IRE) H H Aga Khan Jean Claude Rouget FR
BATTALION (IRE) Sheikh Juma Dalmook Al Maktoum William Haggas
3111- BATTLE OF MARENGO (IRE) Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
2-1 BRAVODINO (USA) Niarchos Family Jonathan Pease FR
(1)162- CAP O'RUSHES Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
4(1)(1)- CAT O'MOUNTAIN (USA) Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
(4)- CHIEF EXECUTIVE (IRE) East Wind Racing Ltd Jo Hughes
021310- COUNT OF LIMONADE (IRE) Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
0-(0)0 CYCLONE Andrew Tinkler Richard Hannon
3-(5) DALGIG Ken Gundlach Jamie Osborne
5- DANCE KING Bjorn Nielsen David Lanigan
6- DARE TO ACHIEVE Bernard Kantor & Markus Jooste William Haggas
111111- DAWN APPROACH (IRE) Godolphin Jim Bolger IRE
(4)- DEMONIC Khalid Abdullah Sir Henry Cecil
DENOTE Mrs E A Bass Paul Cole
DESERVING HONOUR Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
ETERNAL RAY (IRE) George Strawbridge Freddy Head FR
0-3 EVERGLADES ISLAND (IRE) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
34- EXCELLENT RESULT (IRE) Godolphin Saeed bin Suroor
120- EXCESS KNOWLEDGE Khalid Abdullah John Gosden
13- EYE OF THE STORM (IRE) Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
1150- FANTASTIC MOON Saeed Suhail Jeremy Noseda
FEEL LIKE DANCING Lady Bamford John Gosden
5(1)- FESTIVE CHEER (FR) Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
3114- FIRST CORNERSTONE Team Valor International LLC Andy Oliver IRE
120- FLYING THE FLAG (IRE) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
32-1 FORTIFY (IRE) Sue Magnier Aidan O'Brien IRE
1- FOUNDRY (IRE) Sue Magnier Aidan O'Brien IRE
GALEB WARRIOR Tony Bloom William Haggas
15- GALILEO ROCK (IRE) Sue Magnier & Michael Tabor David Wachman IRE
GENIUS BOY Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
0019344- GLORY AWAITS (IRE) A & A Kevin Ryan
(2) GOLD MEDAL (IRE) Julie Wood Richard Hannon
23(1)- GREATWOOD Highclere Thoroughbred Racing - Archer Luca Cumani
GROUNDBREAKING Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
(6)- HEIRLOOM Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
41- HILLSTAR Sir Evelyn de Rothschild Sir Michael Stoute
23- IMPROVISATION (IRE) Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
2- INDIAN CHIEF (IRE) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
JAMMY GUEST (IRE) John Guest Racing George Margarson
(2)(2)(1)(1) KING GEORGE RIVER (IRE) John Stocker Alan Bailey
351- KINGDOM (IRE) Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
11- KINGSBARNS (IRE) Sue Magnier Aidan O'Brien IRE
2134- KINGSTON JAMAICA (IRE) Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
LAKE MICHIGAN (IRE) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
LAKE NOVA (IRE) Sue Magnier Aidan O'Brien IRE
41- LEADING LIGHT (IRE) Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
23(2)132- LEITIR MOR (IRE) Jackie Bolger Jim Bolger IRE
1 LIBERTARIAN Hubert Strecker Elaine Burke
40- LLAREGYB (IRE) Anne Coughlan David Elsworth
5(1)- LORD PROVOST (IRE) Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
0(2)10- MAGICIAN (IRE) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
MANNDAWI (FR) H H Aga Khan Alain de Royer Dupre FR
(1)- MARS (IRE) Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
(1)- MIGHTY YAR (IRE) Tony Evans Sir Henry Cecil
5130- MIRSAALE Saif Ali James Tate
001-2 MOMBASA Wis Green Partners Ralph Beckett
0- MORPHEUS Khalid Abdullah Sir Henry Cecil
1- MUTASHADED (USA) Hamdan Al Maktoum Roger Varian
NELSON'S VICTORY Victory Bloodstock Limited Jane Chapple-Hyam
416- NEVIS (IRE) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
NEW LOOK (IRE) Sheikh Mohammed No current trainer
231- NICHOLS CANYON Rachel Hood & Elaine Lawlor John Gosden
04(6)(4)-0(0) OCEAN APPLAUSE Bill McLuskey John Ryan
1-1 OCOVANGO Prince A A Faisal Andre Fabre FR
PARKER RIDGE (FR) Wildenstein Stables Limited Luca Cumani
10150- PASAKA BOY RWH Partnership Jonathan Portman
51515- PEDRO THE GREAT (USA) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
5(2)- PERSEPOLIS (IRE) Highclere Thoroughbred Racing - Sloan Sir Michael Stoute
3-4 PIET MONDRIAN Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
5 PLINTH (IRE) Anne Marie O'Brien Aidan O'Brien IRE
5- POINT PIPER (USA) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
04(3)- PORTMONARCH (IRE) Robert V LaPenta David Lanigan
QAHIR (IRE) H H Sheikh Abdulla bin Khalifa Al Thani Freddy Head FR
13- RACE AND STATUS (IRE) Jackie & George Smith Andrew Balding
35211- RESTRAINT OF TRADE (IRE) Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
ROYAL FLAG Godolphin Saeed bin Suroor
1 RULER OF THE WORLD (IRE) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
SAINT AND SINNER (GER) Gestut Karlshof Andreas Wohler GER
SARDINIA (IRE) Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
SASKATCHEWAN Wildenstein Stables Limited Luca Cumani
SATWA STORY Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
(1)-(1)(3) SECRET NUMBER Godolphin Saeed bin Suroor
(1)- SIR WALTER SCOTT (IRE) Derrick Smith Aidan O'Brien IRE
SLEEPING GIANT (GER) Wildenstein Stables Limited Luca Cumani
0- SMOKE SCREEN Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
SPESSARTINE (IRE) Edwin Phillips Robert Eddery
3- SQUIRE OSBALDESTON (IRE) Paul Hickman & G Johns Sir Henry Cecil
212113- STEELER (IRE) Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
SUGAR TRAIN Khalid Abdullah David Smaga FR
010- SUPERPLEX (FR) Stall Eivissa Michael Figge GER
(2)20(1)-(1) SWING EASY Mrs B B Mills, J Harley, T Jacobs Robert Mills
42-3 TABLEAUX (USA) Sue Magnier Aidan O'Brien IRE
(6)- TAKAATHUR (USA) Godolphin Saeed bin Suroor
21- TARIKHI (USA) Godolphin Saeed bin Suroor
TEKTITE Niarchos Family Jonathan Pease FR
21- TELESCOPE (IRE) Highclere Thoroughbred Racing -Wavertree Sir Michael Stoute
114230- THA'IR (IRE) Godolphin Saeed bin Suroor
6- THATCHMASTER (USA) Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
1- THE UNITED STATES (IRE) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
3- THE VATICAN (IRE) Sue Magnier Aidan O'Brien IRE
(2)32 THE WELSH WIZARD (IRE) John & Barbara Cotton, Sir Alex Ferguson, J Hanson Charlie Hills
(2)- TINGHIR (IRE) Bjorn Nielsen David Lanigan
111- TORONADO (IRE) HE Sh Joaan Bin Hamad Al Thani Richard Hannon
2115- TRADING LEATHER (IRE) Jackie Bolger Jim Bolger IRE
410- TWILIGHT ZONE (IRE) Michael Tabor Aidan O'Brien IRE
112-1 VAN DER NEER Saeed Manana Richard Hannon
23- VAYAKHAN (FR) H H Aga Khan Alain de Royer Dupre FR
VICTORY SONG (IRE) Sue Magnier Aidan O'Brien IRE
WAVER (IRE) Anne Marie O'Brien Aidan O'Brien IRE
112- WILLIE THE WHIPPER Qatar Racing Limited Ann Duffield
40- WINTERLUDE (IRE) Godolphin Mahmood Al Zarooni
0-(1) WOODSTOCK (IRE) Julie Wood Richard Hannon
64- ZAIN EAGLE Asaad Al Banwan Gerard Butler
21- ZAND (IRE) H H Aga Khan John Oxx IRE

125 entries go forward
41 Irish-trained
10 French-trained
2 German-trained

THE FOLLOWING ENTRIES HAVE BEEN SCRATCHED:BALMORAL MILLS (IRE), SIR PRANCEALOT (IRE), WINGED FOOT (IRE)
 
TopClass said:
Great question.

Always a big if but:


If he wins on reappearance next week, he drops to 10s (and probably 6s/7s for the Guineas).

If he runs well in the Guineas (places behind Dawn Approach), he probably starts off 6/1 for The Derby behind an Aiden O'Brien horse(s) and Telescope?
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Well, then, if things do go to plan you got yourself a very good bet potentially. The reason i ask is because i also like Toronado alot and rarely play ante post but now i feel i may get on him at 16's as it coud turn out to be a snip. Goodluck Toppy, nice write as usual :emoticon-0148-yes:

Edit: PN, great stuff too. Thanks for posting that up, good stuff.
 
What price the Rothschild owned Stoute horse for the Derby (33s currently) when Ryan Moore chooses that one over Telescope?!
 
Telescope is my pick for the Derby, Highly regarded by the Stoute team and Highclere. As Derby written allover him from his last win where he ran on powerfully and through his pedigree. Ryan Moore likely to ride and if the market is anything to go by hes had alot of support in recent days...

Ocovango, Looks an intresting prospect from Monsieur Fabre. Now he's got the Derby monkey of his back he clearly knows the right sort and I can see him being a dark horse

Aidan O'Brien's best hope is Kingsbarns, But I've a horrible feeling we might not see the horse all year. Mars looks a very bright prospect but looks more of a miler/miler quarter horse. Jury is still out on Battle of Marengo

Dawn Approach as absolutely no chance of staying the Derby trip and that 8 grand they've just paid to enter him, Well they might aswell have burned it!
 
I think he might have a shout toppy, he looked pretty green to me today, and the ground looked tacky to me. So he did well to win. Not sure he's the fastest horse in the world, so he may be better over the St Leger distance, but he'll certainly improve for today's effort:biggrin:
 
Can I also add that over the years AOB usually sends a good horse to that race, previous winners include Galileo, High Chapparel, Yeats and Fame and Glory. So chances are Battle of Marengo is pretty useful :biggrin:
 
I backed Telescope at 10's and 8's hoping I could lay the stake off after the Dante at 2's or 3's and end up with a free bet.

Today's race gave us a nice winner but the ground was atrocious so what we can take from it is anyone's guess. At least he's proven his well being and that he's trained on.
 
Bostonbob said:
I backed Telescope at 10's and 8's hoping I could lay the stake off after the Dante at 2's or 3's and end up with a free bet.

Today's race gave us a nice winner but the ground was atrocious so what we can take from it is anyone's guess. At least he's proven his well being and that he's trained on.
Click to expand...

What do you see in Telescopes form to make you want to back him?

The horse that beat him FTO finished 8th NTO, and the 2 horses in 2nd and 3rd behind him when he won 2nd time up hardly frank the form. Elkayaad came 4th in a maiden before he was 2nd to Telescope, and hasn't been out since. Whilst Excellent result, who was beaten 3 lenghs by Telescope in 3rd on his debut, went on to finish 4th second time up 9 lenghs behind the winner.

I understand Sir Micheal warrants respect, but he's been in poor form for 2 seasons now, and Telescopes juvenile form looks poor to me for a Derby favourite. So I just don't get why you'd back him at 10s, nevermind 6s which is his current best price :biggrin:
 
Bostonbob said:
I backed him at 10's and 8's because I knew I'd be able to lay him off at much shorter and have a free bet at a decent price.
Click to expand...

What happens if he gets beat in the Dante though? I'd lay it back before he runs next, as his form doesn't look anything special :biggrin:
 
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