I'm pretty sure that's not what he did? That's quite a leap from you tbh.
Off Topic The Environmental & Pollution Thread
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I'm pretty sure that's not what he did? That's quite a leap from you tbh.
My criticism is not with Jasper. It is with the video itself. It tells a very small part of the story. Climate change deniers would leap on such a video and say "There you go. Electric vehicles are **** after all, I'm sticking with my diesel."
And you might think that's a bit far fetched, but they do it all the time. I am constantly jaw dropped at the illogical links they make. Sure, some of them are trolls, but many are ordinary uninformed people.
So, sorry Jasper if I gave you the wrong impression.
So are EVs as green as you think, asks the video? It all rather depends on how green you originally thought they were. I can tell anyone right now that an EV is not the answer to the problem. But it can be part of the answer. A bicycle is a lot better. But how many people are going to give up their cars for a bicycle? Or even an E-bicycle? or E-scooter or E-motorbike? Not that many. So an EV is the nearest best thing.
For people waiting for the graphene battery to take over, it will be a bit of a wait. However, here is a fairly non-tech video of a graphene battery in comparison to a lithium-ion battery, amongst a few other things the chap talks about.
Note when he says "premium product", because any battery labelled graphene ain't gonna be cheap, and we need it to be to get into vehicles.
Note when he says "premium product", because any battery labelled graphene ain't gonna be cheap, and we need it to be to get into vehicles.
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This could have been a really valuable thread but it has descended into an obsessive promotion for electric cars. When it hit rock bottom for me was the video about "Maddie Moate gets a proper home charger". Being honest TSS, who gives a flying fig whether Maddie Moate gets a home car charger or not. I understand you like EV's but this thread has got ridiculous recently.
These electric wonder vehicles are yet another heavy industry sucking vast resources out of our planet, and that might even turn out to be worse for the environment than what we have. Have you actually looked at the environmental and human impact the mining, contamination and water deprivation it's causing around the globe? And it is always the poorest, the child labourers and those least able to defend their local way of life that are most harmed by all that is happening. All so people like Elon Musk can be seen as the saviour of planet earth and those who can afford it are able drive 'environmentally friendly' electric cars and feel they are doing their bit. Lovely.
And as for our government 'reducing' the time frame for banning car manufacturers selling new petrol, diesel and hybrid cars to 2035, it's bollocks. All that is about is a PR stunt ahead of COP26 which, like COP25, will achieve nothing, because it's not there to actually achieve anything positive. It's there so the high and mighty can sound like they are doing something by introducing 'targets' while really maintaining the status quo. Targets, assurances and promises mean absolutely nothing. Actions do, and there isn't much of that happening to support all the bullshit they keep spewing out.
These electric wonder vehicles are yet another heavy industry sucking vast resources out of our planet, and that might even turn out to be worse for the environment than what we have. Have you actually looked at the environmental and human impact the mining, contamination and water deprivation it's causing around the globe? And it is always the poorest, the child labourers and those least able to defend their local way of life that are most harmed by all that is happening. All so people like Elon Musk can be seen as the saviour of planet earth and those who can afford it are able drive 'environmentally friendly' electric cars and feel they are doing their bit. Lovely.
And as for our government 'reducing' the time frame for banning car manufacturers selling new petrol, diesel and hybrid cars to 2035, it's bollocks. All that is about is a PR stunt ahead of COP26 which, like COP25, will achieve nothing, because it's not there to actually achieve anything positive. It's there so the high and mighty can sound like they are doing something by introducing 'targets' while really maintaining the status quo. Targets, assurances and promises mean absolutely nothing. Actions do, and there isn't much of that happening to support all the bullshit they keep spewing out.
I like the concept of EV's too but the scale of pollution, contamination and water deprivation that mining for rare earth elements and lithium is causing is appalling. It's happening in places out of our sight so it's easier to avoid but we are exchanging one form of pollution for others and shifting it from our streets to poorer countries.
The only way to reduce pollution here is for us to change many of things we do and also the way we do them. We need environmentally sustainable public transport that supports our society and enables affordable and reliable travel with as small an impact as possible on this and other countries. It is unjust for us to expect other countries to accept our push for cleaner air by destroying their environment, but that is what we have done historically and look set to continue doing it. I'm not buying into that.
Getting away from the technology thing for a while, these videos are brilliant and well worth a watch. Some people get just get it.
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Kaito, I used to think like you. But you end up wringing your hands wondering whether any of your protestations are going to make a difference.
To me, any little bit of progress towards a reduction in pollution and CO2 is progress, whether that is buying an EV or putting solar panels on your roof, or this ridiculous tory government bringing forward a ban from 2040 to 2035. And this thread hasn't in any way descended into an EV thread. It just happens to be a topical part of the whole conversation. In the past I have talked about planting trees, melting ice caps, you name it. And one person might have "liked" the contribution. I'm trying to engage people in the bigger picture, and what they can do within it, that's all.
All this attention on, "the governments must do this, the governments must do that". The government will do **** all unless we show some movement ourselves.
As to the Maddie Moate videos, just maybe some people are learning something from them.
OK, here's a much more direct article/video on the subject of climate change. How come 1.5°C is so big a deal?:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/scien...rees-of-global-warming-could-change-the-world
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/scien...rees-of-global-warming-could-change-the-world
You don't now the scope of the things I think about or those I am involved with, so do us both a favour and put your lectern away. I accept that you have a heart for the environment and want to change things for the better. So do I. We probably both do what we can to reduce our footprint on this planet. However, we are very different in the way we seeing it being achieved.
Real change will only start to happen when governments around the world are held to account for their continued support and adherence to a capitalist system that is clearly a busted flush. Capitalism relies on an ever increasing production line and ever willing purchasers to keep the money rolling in. That is fine if the resources of this planet were limitless, but they are not and we are fast reaching a tipping point where the damage we are doing, and have done, is going to kill millions of us. The greatest tragedy is that most of those who will perish will be innocent of damaging the planet.
That isn't hand wringing, it's a fact. Carry on extracting minerals, rare earth elements, waste fresh water in pursuit of lithium and then further poison the soil and oceans by increasing acidification. For what? Electric cars? We can all do our bit by living cleaner and better lives and by reducing our dependence on 'stuff' but until real change starts at the very top with governments controlling the big industrial polluters then as a species we face a terminal decline.
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And the PM doesn't get Climate Change:
BBC News - COP26: PM 'doesn't get' climate change, says sacked president
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51368799
BBC News - COP26: PM 'doesn't get' climate change, says sacked president
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51368799
I totally agree with your sentiments Kaito. But what are we to do? I think and have thought pretty much exactly what you have written for as long as I can remember. And we have a right wing government in place, hell bent on a nationalistic capitalist approach. Looks like we're going to have to work with that for the next few years, because we are out of time.
Any Extinction Rebellion members here?
Join up and man the barricades, I've managed to avoid arrest so far being a crusty old fart of three score years and ten. Also the Dutch police not known for their gentle (man)handling.
Be aware big brother is watching. "Counter-terrorism police in south-east England have admitted an "error of judgement" after listing Extinction Rebellion as an "extreme ideology". https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51071959
I've been involved in non violent (mostly) civil disobedience since ban the bomb I wonder if I'm listed as subversive anywhere.
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The only way to make a dent in the rampant capitalism that is wrecking the planet is to reject it on a personal level and encourage others to do the same. Buying stuff is a twisted form of therapy for many people, in a misguided belief that it will bring some form of happiness. It doesn’t. It’s a symptom of a broken and shallow society with a lack of fundamental values and a disregard for those who suffer to provide us with the cheap goods we crave.
For every piece of cheap clothing or shopping bag full of cheap food, somewhere someone is barely existing on a desperately low standard of living, often unable to afford a healthy diet or basic medicines when they or their family members fall ill. Millions of adults and children are trapped in modern slavery to provide big business with obscene profits and us with the junk we buy. Because we hardly ever see it, it’s easy to ignore it is happening. We have become very adept at turning a blind eye to things we would rather not be faced with or think about. We even manage to ignore the homeless people on our own streets as we walk by them in our quest for our next shopping fix.
Anti-consumerism is growing but it’s growing far too slowly. It has to become the default state for us, and consumerism has to become alien to our way of life if we are to have a future. That can be achieved by emphasising the pleasure of becoming more sustainable and refusing to support a system based on the exploitation of people and the destruction of our environment. It's vitally important to refuse to support the consumer madness that is eating our planet and leaving us with a hollow feeling of being lost in it all.
Yes, I joined XR.
Agreed. For me that is a long term aim. People have to be weaned off the easy consumerism. If you say "this is the way it has got to be", people will reject it completely. So it has to be slowly done, but as fast as possible (if you get me).
The next decade is going to see enormous change. Meanwhile, we start it off with Climate denier Trump, climate confused Johnson, A Brazilian ultra right wing President, who says the Rainforest is Brazil's to do with as they see fit. An Australian government who still want to burn coal. Plus Putin manipulating. It's not a great start point.
Jeez, and I had a wee bit of (obviously mistaken) faith in Trudeau:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ocrisy-canadas-leaders-have-reached-a-new-low
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ocrisy-canadas-leaders-have-reached-a-new-low
... It’s not a great place to start TSS, but we have to start somewhere.
The local economy model in this country has largely been destroyed by a predatory corporate capitalism which is supported and upheld by a corrupt political system based on a concept of entrapment and modern day slavery. The only way to fight corporate capitalism on a local level is to reject it by removing our funding for it and start rebuilding local economies and communities from the ground up. By interacting with other communities the word spreads and it quickly becomes self sustaining and with regenerative farming it also becomes environmentally healing.
It’s a tragedy that we have lost our precious local family businesses and welcomed in the huge ‘one stop shops’. We were lied to and led to believe this was progress, and as a nation we are willing to believe just about anything these days, so we fell for it. We love ‘cheap’ because we are addicted to consumerism. The more junk we can buy the better we like it but we have to reject it if we are going to reverse the damage being done to our planet.
Buying locally grown fruit, vegetables, meat and fish does very little harm to the environment, supports and stimulates a localised economy and reduces transport pollution. Buying local produce involves us in interacting with others on a closer personal level and is a rejection of the sterile supermarket mentality of ‘grab and go’ shopping.
We either re-establish the traditional values we once held dear, we have to reconnect with and care for the environment and live sustainable community based lifestyles, or mother nature is going to do it for us. When mother nature does reject our continued rape and pillaging of the planet it will be too late to go back and change. We either rapidly start to change now or we are finished.
Agreed.
Actually I had an old thought the other day. When I first married, we were going to be self-sufficient. But life and careers got in the way. But my back garden is doing very little of worth these days. I might start planning my own vegetable plot.
An alternative view on the destruction of coral reefs. Not raised water temperatures, but altered chemistry:
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/0...-we-are-changing-the-chemistry-of-the-planet/
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/0...-we-are-changing-the-chemistry-of-the-planet/
Ooh - Jasper is being deliberately provocative!
As at 07.55 this morning, 43% of electricity usage in the UK was being produced by renewables.
I’m 2019, there were 103 days where renewables were more than 50% of usage. In 2015 there were only 12 days when this happened. I’d say that’s pretty good progress and it can only get better. (All facts can be checked from the National Grid database)
So ...... I think you’re being a tad obtuse here, Jasper.
My take is that EVs and renewables have to be the future or we’ll have no planet to leave our grandchildren. Yes, there’s a lot we still have to do but we must all try and do our bit.