I did not say that UK. motorists were more cupable than others - I am not concerned about the nationality of the driver, but rather the air that I am forced to breath. It is high time that we as a society reassessed our relationship to this horrible lump of metal. It achieved four things which I cannot live with: 1. It's impact on Co2 emissions, and the climate which I share. 2. The influence which it has on the health of everyone who breathes it in. 3. The millions of valuable and endangered insects which are killed by cars every year. 4. The fact that the entire infrastructure - public transport, small shops in small villages etc. has been run down to accomodate this industry. 5. The potential living space of our cities which are taken up with the needs of cars which could be put to better use.
Off Topic The Environment
- Thread starter Leo
- Start date
If you have anything constructive to contribute W_Y, then please do it, without resorting to snide comments.
6. It's kept the German economy running for years.
7. CO2 emissions have been reduced, The real health issue is with NOX and particulates - VW had a massive fine in the US for lying about the emissions from their cars and in the EU? Absolutely nothing because they have the EU in their pocket.
8. Unplanned and unnatural population grow focussed in the cities is caused this level of traffic - guess who you can thank for that?
Stop blaming the car, blame the politicians for allowing this growth.
I did not say that UK. motorists were more cupable than others - I am not concerned about the nationality of the driver, but rather the air that I am forced to breath. It is high time that we as a society reassessed our relationship to this horrible lump of metal. It achieved four things which I cannot live with: 1. It's impact on Co2 emissions, and the climate which I share. 2. The influence which it has on the health of everyone who breathes it in. 3. The millions of valuable and endangered insects which are killed by cars every year. 4. The fact that the entire infrastructure - public transport, small shops in small villages etc. has been run down to accomodate this industry. 5. The potential living space of our cities which are taken up with the needs of cars which could be put to better use.[/QUOTE
Then you are unaware what others read into the links you make between higher rates of asthma in the UK and motorists. Using emotive language (it is high time, this horrible lump of metal, I am forced to breathe) and relentlessly listing opinions as if they were facts (the entire infrastructure etc) does not encourage debate. I don't mean to cause offence, Cologne...you're very committed to many things and I commend you for it., but there are other equally valid ways of perceiving the modern world....
And that is my final word
It is now a well known fact that most of the inner city pollution is caused by diesel engines vehicles, taxies, buses, lorries, white vans and of course German Diesel engined cars sold to the public under the biggest (not British) government con ever
If our ancestors had your vision of the future cologne we would all be living in mud huts, without any hygiene facilities, adults dying by the time they are 35, probably 7 or 8 out of ten children dying before they reach the age of 2
This of course would make for a wonderful environment for flies and mosquitoes
Your utopia maybe but not mine or any other modern humans
If our ancestors had your vision of the future cologne we would all be living in mud huts, without any hygiene facilities, adults dying by the time they are 35, probably 7 or 8 out of ten children dying before they reach the age of 2
This of course would make for a wonderful environment for flies and mosquitoes
Your utopia maybe but not mine or any other modern humans
I do not recall saying anything about Germany - in fact Germany is worse in this respect. They almost have diesel running in their blood. The only country in the EU. which has no speed limits on it's motorways, and where people scream about human rights at the thought of them being introduced. I really do wish that Germany would manufacture something usefull - apart from oversized cars, weapons, and pesticides. Unfortunately the whole thing of Brexit, right wing populism in Europe, refugees etc. has distracted everyone from the fact that Germany tries to take the high ground on environmental issues yet, at the same time, is the only country in the EU. with rising Co2 emissions. We should be able to confront them with this rather than being distracted by things like Brexit.
Have I mentioned anything about horses and carts Duggie ? How do you know what my vision of the future is ? You have taken on a lot of assumptions here simply based on my dislike of cars. I would like to see more people in a comfortable, reliable, public transport system - is there anything stone age about that ? I am well aware that a great deal of pollution in London is caused by other forms of motorized transport, and i would prefer to reduce that as well. But you cannot compare the Co2 emissions per head of 30 people travelling in a bus, compared to the same number in private cars. Are the buses in London not electric yet, or at least hybrid ?
Cologne
my comments were tongue in cheek
The future is hybrid cars that could run in towns powered by the energy stored from motorway driving
The real problem with electric cars is that the electricity to power them has to be generated by burning fossil fuels or by nuclear fusion neither of which create less pollution than petrol cars
Hydrogen would be a good solution if only the American oil giants didn't have the patent for it locked away somewhere for safe keeping
The other cause of global pollution is that India, China etc are building their economies on 100 year old power technology because America and Europe wont share our more modern power generation technology
I think we all want the same future for our children but the genie is out of the bottle and cant be put back
maybe the real threat from Pandora's Box is our modern lifestyle
my comments were tongue in cheek
The future is hybrid cars that could run in towns powered by the energy stored from motorway driving
The real problem with electric cars is that the electricity to power them has to be generated by burning fossil fuels or by nuclear fusion neither of which create less pollution than petrol cars
Hydrogen would be a good solution if only the American oil giants didn't have the patent for it locked away somewhere for safe keeping
The other cause of global pollution is that India, China etc are building their economies on 100 year old power technology because America and Europe wont share our more modern power generation technology
I think we all want the same future for our children but the genie is out of the bottle and cant be put back
maybe the real threat from Pandora's Box is our modern lifestyle
I do not think that the future can be in simply replacing one technology with another Duggie. To trust that technology will cure the problem of Co2 emissions is a blind alley - it can be a supportive measure but nothing more than that. I would hazard a guess and say that just under half of all car journeys are firstly short distance, and secondly unnecessary. We all know that a driver who drives a 10km distance 10 times per day does more damage to the environment than if he drove 100km in one journey. The reason being that more emissions occur in the first 5 mins. of driving than at any other. So we need to reduce the amount of 'short' journeys which are made - or remove the necessity for them. This is where infrastructue comes in - particularly in rural areas. 'A' realizes that he has no bread, milk etc. and drives to the nearest town (3 miles) and then back again - cast the clock back 30 years and he would have had a local post office and so the journey would have been unnecessary. How many rural towns have moved towards supermarket 'out of town' shopping - which is both a result of the car industry, and also a reason for the problem becoming worse. Both Britain and Germany had more railway stations in the 1950s than they do now - more reliable, and extensive, bus services. But they have all been run down because of the car industry. The way forward is to reduce the necessity of short distance driving, using as many means as possible.
I know people don’t like the mixing of threads, but this does pose political questions, I think. The ‘independent’ car driver vote is too powerful to take on. If you disincentivise personal transport via tax (unless you tax as a proportion of disposal income, which is far too radical, God knows politicians are scared to raise taxes anyway, let alone by any method as smart as that), you make it something exclusively for the well off.
As for tobacco (sorry, cologne
) I would ban its sale immediately. It has no positives for society whatsoever, and imho, should not be a ‘matter of choice’ as its addicts don’t have free choice because their brains are subject to the drugs’ control. And that goes for all these ‘vape’ shops, too.It's not a case of declaring war on car drivers Andy, but rather working to make the alternatives more attractive. A comfortable, clean and reliable public transport system would be a start, together with town planning which makes things like walking, or cycling, an attractive option. Another thing is broadband internet, which enables many people to work from home - thus avoiding the necessity to drive to work each day. At some stage we must arrive at a 'realistic' price for petrol - at the moment a glass of petrol is cheaper than a glass of orangejuice.I know people don’t like the mixing of threads, but this does pose political questions, I think. The ‘independent’ car driver vote is too powerful to take on. If you disincentivise personal transport via tax (unless you tax as a proportion of disposal income, which is far too radical, God knows politicians are scared to raise taxes anyway, let alone by any method as smart as that), you make it something exclusively for the well off.
As for tobacco (sorry, cologne
If you would ban smoking because of its addictive properties - then where do you end on this ? The same case could be put for banning all alcohol.
I largely agree, cologne, but I think the choice of car use should provoke more forethought. I think you allude to that a bit with your reference to petrol price. I think that Transport 2000, all those years ago, suggested doubling the price of petrol, but anything like that would be a political disaster for any party, let alone my proposal!
Re tobacco, I think there is no comparison with alcohol. Alcohol can be enjoyed by probably the majority without necessarily being addicted. Not so tobacco. Its only purpose is to feed the addiction it creates. There are no positives, imho, not one.
D
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Guest
You're probably right - but, and I am being tongue in cheek - am not aware of anyone beating up their wife because they had 1 Marlboro too many.
It's an economic argument as well - as a 20 a day man for 30 years I must have paid in around 30k to the treasury and haven't had any medical treatment as a direct result. I will also die younger than the average non smoker so will claim less in pensions and, as a public sector worker, will also claim less from that fund too. So, in the words of Alf Garnett, I'm performing a national service and there's lots like me!
I was forty a day for about fifteen years then quit. So as they say “There’s none so pure as a reformed whore.”
As for alcohol, its effects can be repellent and I’m sure it would have been made illegal had it been newly discovered/invented. I’m not an unequivocal fan of alcohol, I was saying that it doesn’t compare with tobacco, which is concentrated evil.
Giving up smoking is easy, I do it around 20 times per day.I was forty a day for about fifteen years then quit. So as they say “There’s none so pure as a reformed whore.”
As for alcohol, its effects can be repellent and I’m sure it would have been made illegal had it been newly discovered/invented. I’m not an unequivocal fan of alcohol, I was saying that it doesn’t compare with tobacco, which is concentrated evil.
A few weeks ago the price of diesel shot up by €0.10 a litre here in France. It was designed to equalise the price with petrol, and also make people think about what they spent on fuel. It certainly has had the effect of less journeys with so many diesel cars on the road. Nothing to do with more revenue for the treasury of course.
However there are many electric charging points being built in even the small towns. Free to use, but you hardly ever see cars wired up to them.
However there are many electric charging points being built in even the small towns. Free to use, but you hardly ever see cars wired up to them.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
I used to help people stop smoking... Its so much easier than people imagine...
I gave up smoking once. Worst 25 minutes of my life.
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I gave up smoking when i was 12yrs old (I started when i was also 12)
Even at that age i realised that cost v pleasure made it a waste of time
i started drinking at 14 and gave up excessive drinking when i was 18 partly due to cost v pleasure and also it didn't mix with tearing round on a 650cc motorbike
Even at that age i realised that cost v pleasure made it a waste of time
i started drinking at 14 and gave up excessive drinking when i was 18 partly due to cost v pleasure and also it didn't mix with tearing round on a 650cc motorbike