The Eclipse

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People just want SYT to be the real deal, so they are believing the sour grapes of AOB at Ascot, but anyone with half a brain who can look at a race objectively, can see that SYT ran to similar form if not worse form at Sandown. Rewilding was always going to make a better 4yo with his frame and build, so it's clear he is a miles better horse than the one who was beat in the Derby.

If So You Think, Workforce, St Nicholas Abbey and Rewilding all clash in the King George, my money will be with Rewilding as he has the best form so far this season:biggrin:
 
King Shergar said:
but anyone with half a brain who can look at a race objectively, can see that SYT ran to similar form if not worse form at Sandown.
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I don't doubt for a minute that Rewilding has improved enormously from 3 to 4, and he might well be the best around. What i cannot accept is that So You Think was as good at Ascot as he was at Sandown. To me he improved a little at the very least. He was too free, hit the front too soon and got tired at Ascot. At Sandown none of those problems arose. I can therefore only draw the conclusion that he improved.
 
Zenyatta.....The race tactics probably suited him more at Sandown, as he had a good horse in Workforce to toe him into the straight, where as at Ascot he only had the pacemaker Jan Vermeer who was never going to have enough left to keep the gallop going into the straight, so he got left out infront, and was done late on. Where as at Sandown it was a reversal of roles, Workforce could have done with a horse to follow turning in, but obviously Confront isn't good enough to keep up the gallop to the 2 furlong pole.

So maybe the way the race panned out at Sandown worked out better for So You Think, but I dont believe he improved between races:biggrin:
 
King Shergar said:
So maybe the way the race panned out at Sandown worked out better for So You Think, but I dont believe he improved between races:biggrin:
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Surely his performance must have been better then if "the way the race panned out at Sandwon worked out better for So You Think"?

Your argument that the race suited him better and yet he didn't improve surely makes no sense whatsoever, unless i'm missing the point that is!

I think Stoute and Moore decided to dictate from the front in the home straight. Jimmy Fortune on Confront made no attempt to maintain his lead for as long as possible and moved over to allow Workforce through coming round the bend. Confront was not being ridden along when Workforce went past him. I think Moore must have thought that this was the best way to beat SYT because he knew he wasn't going to do him for speed. I think it is one race where there can be no excuses. Both Workforce and SYT were able to run the races they wished, it was just that the latter was better on the day.
 
I can see what Shergar is saying Zenyatta. The tactics were different at Sandown and he had a better horse to give him something to aim at up the straight. I am still sceptical that fitness was the problem for SYT at Ascot and don't think any conclusions can be drawn by using Sri Puta as a yardstick. I believe SYT was more suited by the way the race panned out at Sandown and therefore did not necessarily need to improve to win.
 
FulkesFestival40 said:
I believe SYT was more suited by the way the race panned out at Sandown and therefore did not necessarily need to improve to win.
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This is exactly my point. If he was more suited by the way the race was run at Sandown (which i would agree with 100%) then surely he must have delivered an improved performance?

I think this might be where we are getting our wires crossed. You are saying that the horse himself didn't necessarily need to improve to deliver the improved performance, because the way the race panned out was sufficient to bring about that level of improvement in his performance. If that is the case then i can accept that, but i wouldn't say that i entirely agree with it.
 
I've given up trying to figure whether SYT or Sri Putra improved between the two races (whichever way improvement is interpreted). The only concrete way we could be sure is if Rewilding had been in the Eclipse.

The main thing I can take out of the race is that it was a fast time over 10f and Workforce ran a cracker in the circumstances and augurs well for the possibility of a second Arc. (Beginning to sound like a Workforce fan).

The fact that Rewilding beat SYT over 10f (in another fast time) does make one wonder just how good Rewilding will be over 12f.

If Rewilding, WF and SNA all compete in the KG it will be a race worth travelling to see. And if SYT turned up also, well my mouth is watering as I type. And if Pour Moi came over, surely it would be the best line up for decades. I wonder what will be left to ponder by the time the Arc comes round.
 
Zenyatta.....What we are saying is that the way the other horses were ridden at Sandown, suited SYT better, this doesnt mean I'm saying the horse was in better shape either way!

Workforce was obviously the main threat, and arguably only threat in the Eclipse, so when he took up the running all SYT had to do was stalk him and let Workforce decide when the button was pressed, and react to any move he made. I'm not disputing wether they were the intended tactics from Moore as they probably where, but they did play into SYTs hands.

At Ascot SYT found himself out infront, with all the danger likely to come from behind, there was no class horse, out infront, just the pacemaker. So SYT was forced to take it up and had to be sent on to win his race when he was, as there is nothing worse than giving horses behind you first run.

So what I'm saying is the fact The danger was infront of SYT at Sandown it allowed Heffernen to use Workforce to decide when the cards were played in the straight, were as in the POW, the danger was from behind so they didn't have the luxury of knowing what the other horses were up to.

I believe Moore got his tactics wrong on Workforce on Saturday, and Workforce would have had a better chance, had he been held up, they should have let Confront bomb along infront at a good clip, and Workforce should have been arriving late on the scene just like Rewilding was. At the end of the day though hindsight is a wondeful thing, so I wouldn't blame Moore for the ride :biggrin:
 
I've had my say, but I will add, that I think that So You Think "had" to improve. I have to ask myself, "was AOB lying when he said he thought he'd left the horse underdone?" If so "did he actually pour more work into SYT since the PoW or not?" If he did, then the horse had to be fitter. If he was fitter, surely he had to improve?

I think Rewilding is a better type now.

I think that Workforce put in a huge effort in the Eclipse.

I think So You Think improved.

And now for the news flash.

I think at a mile and a half So You Think will be better than So You Think over 10f.
 
Ron said:
Wow. That will be something to savour.
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I was going to say the same thing.

If he takes his chance in the Arc i think i'll be very tempted to make the trip to Paris. Workforce v So You Think v Pour Moi v St Nicholas Abbey v Rewilding v Sarafina v Baraan v Reliable Man v Golden Lilac v Galikova v Fame And Glory. Now that would be a pretty handy line-up!
 
I think I might jump on the train to Paris to watch that one Zenyatta.
 
NassauBoard said:
Surely he will be going Cox Plate and then Breeders Cup?
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I think it will be International, Irish Champion and then no idea.

I would think that his final target will be determined by how he gets on in those two races. I don't think the Breeders Cup is very likely because Await The Dawn is going to be their primary representative in the Classic. And, ironically, the original owners who retain an interest don't seem very keen on the idea of going back to Australia. There is also the quarantine issues to factor in.

Another possiblity is it would be great to see SYT in the new Champion Stakes at Ascot. If both he and Canford Cliffs, and maybe some others turned up, then it would be a real success. It might be wishful thinking but we can hope. That might be worth a visit too!
 
Good info and thanks for it. I would guess that means that a raid on the Breeders Cup and also another UK/Ireland race would be the way.

Surely they will send the three year olds to the Arc?
 
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