6 defeats for Secretariat, and only 1 for Brigadier Gerard. I know which horse I'd rank higher
I wasn't rating the horses. I was merely pointing out Secretariat burst onto the scene that year.
The Coral Eclipse Legends
- Thread starter TC (Lovely Geezer)
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I wasn't rating the horses. I was merely pointing out Secretariat burst onto the scene that year.
Don't know anything about Bayer and TimeForm, but from what I've read, one needs to add a minimum of 12 to Bayer to get the equivalent TimeForm rating. 151 makes him the best horse ever seen. 
I wasn't rating the horses. I was merely pointing out Secretariat burst onto the scene that year.
I know was just giving my opinion of the 2
The Wiki article on Brigadier Gerrard makes interesting reading. In particular:
I hadn't realised he had broken the course record in the Prince of Wales's Stakes.
He clearly wasn't as good on very soft but still managed to beat soft ground specialists.
I would definitely have him over Sea The Stars and beginning to seriously review my opinion regarding Mill Reef.
My bet is now looking a bit silly because I would want if soft(ish) for Mill Reef to beat the Brigadier but I really want good ground for my main bet Dancing Brave. Any news on the going
- when he was beaten 3l by Roberto he was apparently very ill, yet still had Rheingold behind him
- in the Sussex stakes on soft ground he was only 2 secs outside the course record
- he broke the course record in the Prince of Wales's Stakes over 10f
I hadn't realised he had broken the course record in the Prince of Wales's Stakes.
He clearly wasn't as good on very soft but still managed to beat soft ground specialists.
I would definitely have him over Sea The Stars and beginning to seriously review my opinion regarding Mill Reef.
My bet is now looking a bit silly because I would want if soft(ish) for Mill Reef to beat the Brigadier but I really want good ground for my main bet Dancing Brave. Any news on the going
I could be cleaned out fairly swiftly thenSea The Stars would save me as always! Loved that horse, for some reason I felt attached to him more than any horse I've known. It's all debatable and that's good for the sport as a whole, if we all agreed what a boring place it would be.
I'd be very torn in this race - massive fan of Sea The Stars but Dancing Brave was always a favourite too as I was just beginning to take an interest at that time
The Wiki article on Brigadier Gerrard makes interesting reading. In particular:
I've always regarded him as "essentially" a miler because he was always considered to be the best miler since Tudor Minstrel. His performance in the Sussex Stakes is nothing short of incredible.
- when he was beaten 3l by Roberto he was apparently very ill, yet still had Rheingold behind him
- in the Sussex stakes on soft ground he was only 2 secs outside the course record
- he broke the course record in the Prince of Wales's Stakes over 10f
I hadn't realised he had broken the course record in the Prince of Wales's Stakes.
He clearly wasn't as good on very soft but still managed to beat soft ground specialists.
I would definitely have him over Sea The Stars and beginning to seriously review my opinion regarding Mill Reef.
My bet is now looking a bit silly because I would want if soft(ish) for Mill Reef to beat the Brigadier but I really want good ground for my main bet Dancing Brave. Any news on the going
Yeah he was a great horse by all accounts, 1 defeat in 18 when he was sick and up against a Derby winner isn't bad at all.
He is probably the only horse throughout history who would have been a match for Frankel at a mile. When he won his final QE2 he won 6 lentghs and broke the track record aswell
Like you having looked further into his career, I'm starting to reconsider some of my earlier comments, I'm not sure Dubai Millenium would have beat him at 10f either
As an aside, just had a look at the 1971/2 Arcs. The 1971 version which Mill Reef won was actually on firm ground. The 72 version was on good to firm so I wonder why Brigadier didn't go for that, surely he must have had a good chance on that ground. Mill Reef was being trained for a repeat win that year before his accident.
After Brigadier Gerard won the King George, I seem to recall reading in Joe Mercer’s biography that he told Dick Hern that his class got him home, inferring that he probably did not get the trip; plus his race itinerary had been mapped out with the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes and the Champion Stakes as the objectives.
You would expect that the Arc record would have stood for years from the era before courses were habitually watered. I wonder when was the last time that Longchamp was genuinely good to firm – probably the last drought in Paris.
They were pushing it going for the KG with the Brigadier. When he lost at York he had run in a race in late May (9 days after his seasonal debut), run in the POW about 3 weeks later and then a further 3 weeks later ran in the Eclipse. Two weeks later he ran in the KG. So when he came to York he'd had a 3 week rest but in the previous 9-10 weeks had had 5 races. No-one would attempt that today. At York Hern denied he was ill, Murless (a great admirer) said he looked tired and Timeform said despite breaking the course record he didn't show his form.
His 3yo Sussex Stakes run was supposed to be quite something. It was certainly soft and he was against the best French older milers. He led from the start (he was adaptable that way) and the report was that with 4f to go he was hard held and everything else was scrubbing away. He sauntered to a 6 length win in a very fast time given the conditions.
I'd also highlight his Middle Park win when he totally murdered two 6f sprinters Mummy's Pet and Swing Easy who the next year won most of the top sprint races.
Having said all that I'd still say Sea the Stars.
His 3yo Sussex Stakes run was supposed to be quite something. It was certainly soft and he was against the best French older milers. He led from the start (he was adaptable that way) and the report was that with 4f to go he was hard held and everything else was scrubbing away. He sauntered to a 6 length win in a very fast time given the conditions.
I'd also highlight his Middle Park win when he totally murdered two 6f sprinters Mummy's Pet and Swing Easy who the next year won most of the top sprint races.
Having said all that I'd still say Sea the Stars.
Well TC gave us a bum steer there. Ha ha Brigadier Gerard and Mill Reef were never in the field!!
There's been a stewards and the result has been altered. Sea The Stars replaces Dancing Brave who has been D/Q after the jockey failed to weigh in! Spencer also receives a 2 weeks ban and will miss champions day in October after failing to ride to obtain the best possible position aboard Pebbles. Connections tied to Spencer are thrilled with the ban.
The Coral Eclipse Legends race was only ever going to go back forty years as this was their fortieth anniversary of sponsoring the event.
Since we were not told what the going was supposed to be for this event, there was no realistic way of determining which horse was going to win. I am not sure why Corals would have had Sea The Stars favoured over Dancing Brave.
Since we were not told what the going was supposed to be for this event, there was no realistic way of determining which horse was going to win. I am not sure why Corals would have had Sea The Stars favoured over Dancing Brave.
There's obviously some rich members on this forum
They even bribed the stewards I hear
Dancing Brave was far from unbeatable, he lost twice as a 3yo and was clinging on in the KG with Shardari coming back at him at the line, to barely win half a length. and Shardari was nothing special, he lost more races than he won. His Arc win was a nice victory, but he benifited from them going to hard up front, and I'm far from convinced the likes of Berin, Tryptich and Sharastani where the vintage crop they where billed as.
Dancing Brave's career has a lot of similarities with Sea The Stars, neither of them won any of their races that impressively , so all there rivals ratings where upped just to justify giving the pair high Timeform ratings. Fame And Glory and Rip Van Winkle got similar treatment to the likes of Bering, Tryptich and Sharastani by Timeform just to justify lofty ratings for Sea The Stars and Dancing Brave.
I think a horse should have to earn a lofty rating, like the likes of Shergar, Brigadier Gerard and dare I say it Harbinger did