The Coral Eclipse Legends

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TC (Lovely Geezer)

TC (Lovely Geezer)

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Imagine you are a bookmaker
How would you price an Eclipse containing these legends?

Sadlers Wells
Dancing Brave
Sea The Stars
Mill Reef
Brigadier Gerrard
Nashwan
Giants Causeway
Halling
Mtoto
 
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The race would be a bit of a muddle, since as far as I can recall none of the contenders was really a front runner, which would suggest that it would turn out to be a sprint up the straight.

Just on the ratings alone, Dancing Brave is the best horse listed at middle distances so I would expect him to be the favourite. Brigadier Gerard ran most of his best races at a mile, his sole defeat coming at ten furlongs to Roberto; whilst his class got him home in the King George over twelve. On a straight line of form, the Brigadier would presumably be expected to handle Mill Reef, although that has always been a point of contention. When the Brigadier won, the ground was soft and the much-vaunted rematch with Mill Reef did not happen due to the latter’s career ending illness.

There are some interesting absentees from this line-up. No room at the start for Daylami, Nathaniel, Hawk Wing or Wollow. I suppose the history of the race does favour the older horses but is Sadler’s Wells in there simply so that Vincent O’Brien is represented without going back to the 50s?
 
Nathaniel and Hawk Wing?...certainly not.

Pebbles?...definitely yes.

Shoot out between the Brigadier and Dancing Brave for me with Giants Causeway making the running which he did before in winning a G1 if memory serves.

Anyhow,I simply detest these threads that don't involve Frankel.

Simply not on..he would have smashed them all to pieces..small pieces..smithereens...and into their molecular state.

Not his fault Sandown was so far to travel from his barn.
 
Sadlers Wells was a smashing racehorse.

As a kid,I remember him winning the Eclipse beating Time Charter and another in a tight finish..can't quite remember the third beast..may have been a Moller/Wragg colt.

Time Charter won The Oaks,Sun Chariot,Champion Stakes,King George,Coronation Cup and Prix Foy.

Worthy member of the elite roll call.
 
QuarterMoonII said:
The race would be a bit of a muddle, since as far as I can recall none of the contenders was really a front runner, which would suggest that it would turn out to be a sprint up the straight.

Just on the ratings alone, Dancing Brave is the best horse listed at middle distances so I would expect him to be the favourite. Brigadier Gerard ran most of his best races at a mile, his sole defeat coming at ten furlongs to Roberto; whilst his class got him home in the King George over twelve. On a straight line of form, the Brigadier would presumably be expected to handle Mill Reef, although that has always been a point of contention. When the Brigadier won, the ground was soft and the much-vaunted rematch with Mill Reef did not happen due to the latter’s career ending illness.

There are some interesting absentees from this line-up. No room at the start for Daylami, Nathaniel, Hawk Wing or Wollow. I suppose the history of the race does favour the older horses but is Sadler’s Wells in there simply so that Vincent O’Brien is represented without going back to the 50s?
Click to expand...

Could have had Artaius (77) or Solford (83)
 
I agree Pebbles should definitely be in there. I was wondering about Royal Palace and Busted
 
Dexter said:
Sadlers Wells was a smashing racehorse.

As a kid,I remember him winning the Eclipse beating Time Charter and another in a tight finish..can't quite remember the third beast..may have been a Moller/Wragg colt.

Time Charter won The Oaks,Sun Chariot,Champion Stakes,King George,Coronation Cup and Prix Foy.

Worthy member of the elite roll call.
Click to expand...

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Cheers TC..thats brings back memories..loads of G1 winners in behind there including Waasl and Cormorant Wood...high quality race.

Very little dodging went on then..racehorses did what they bred to do..the clue is the name.
 
There are a few others that should be in that list - but Corals are doing a virtual legends event to celebrate 40 years of sponsoring the race.

They have Sea The Stars and Dancing Brave as 3/1 joint favourites - If it were a real race I would be smashing Sea The Stars off the board at that price <ok>


Will be very interesting to see how the computers and racing scientists see ot the race - will post it here if I get my hands on a copy!
 
Agree with Ron, definitely Royal Palace. Still the best Eclipse I've seen

The third to Sadler's Wells was Morcon. I would not have Sadler's Wells in this line-up ahead of Royal Palace and Busted. He was a very good horse but not a great horse: he just happened to be a really great sire. He was lucky to win the Eclipse as Time Charter had a terrible run and gifted him the race (Mercer must have decided to retire that day after that ride). The fact that Morcon was so near devalues the form.

Brigadier Gerard did not have to do much to win his Eclipse as Mill Reef did not turn up: one of the most boring Eclipses. But he was as good at 10f as he was at 8f and his POW win in record time was extraordinary.

Nashwan was a great horse when he won his classics but his Eclipse was almost a disaster as Carson gave his pacemaker too much rope.

I'd say the race as cast is between Sea the Stars and Brigadier Gerard, with Dancing Brave a close third.
 
Bustino74 said:
Agree with Ron, definitely Royal Palace. Still the best Eclipse I've seen

The third to Sadler's Wells was Morcon. I would not have Sadler's Wells in this line-up ahead of Royal Palace and Busted. He was a very good horse but not a great horse: he just happened to be a really great sire. He was lucky to win the Eclipse as Time Charter had a terrible run and gifted him the race (Mercer must have decided to retire that day after that ride). The fact that Morcon was so near devalues the form.

Brigadier Gerard did not have to do much to win his Eclipse as Mill Reef did not turn up: one of the most boring Eclipses. But he was as good at 10f as he was at 8f and his POW win in record time was extraordinary.

Nashwan was a great horse when he won his classics but his Eclipse was almost a disaster as Carson gave his pacemaker too much rope.

I'd say the race as cast is between Sea the Stars and Brigadier Gerard, with Dancing Brave a close third.
Click to expand...

I think Dancing Brave would split the 2!
 
3/1 Dancing Brave
7/2 Sea The Stars
4/1 Brigadier Gerard
7/1 Mill Reef
8/1 Mtoto
9/1 Nashwan
16/1 Giants Causeway
25/1 Halling
33/1 Sadlers Wells
 
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How can Nashwan be a 9/1 shot, he only ever lost 1 race throughout his career, and won every G1 he raced in. He also won the Eclipse more impressively than most of those:biggrin:
 
Without looking Shergs, it doesn't matter how many races a horse won (or how many G1s). It's what it has been rated capable of. So for example, if it were a truly run race and they were to smash the course record, how many in the race would have been capable of doing that? If it were a tactical affair,run at a muddling pace, not only would it be boring, but it wouldn't prove a thing.
 
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