The Button Question?

Yet they still can't beat Alonso in an average car.

 

That Ferrari is now not an average car; they've made significant upgrades since the start of the season - it's certainly a strong car now and was stronger than the McLaren up until today's upgrades.

 

In comparison to the McLaren, Red Bull and Lotus, the car is average. it's driver talent getting the job done, not the car.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. Alonso is a top driver but that Ferrari had too much today for Button to catch it.

 

Rubbish. It was a poor car for the first few races. Now it is atleast on par if not better than Red Bull and McLaren. Dont get me wrong i think Alonso is the best driver at the moment, but not by the margin over the likes of Vettel, Button, Hamilton and co to be doing that in an average car.

It is at worst a very good car.

 

Explain Massa's performances then. The guy isn't the worlds worst driver, yet he barely scores points.

 

Because Massa is not what he was. Ruined confidence and a clear number two. He is driving badly and with the field very close he's going to get bad results. Say the cars are even in the top three. Then do you really see him putting in the shift to beat Vettel, Webber Hamilton and Button? Why do you think there's so much talk about he being replaced.

For Alonso to dominate races in an average car he would need to be a solid half second quicker than the other world champions he is beating and i dont buy that at all. Especially looking at say 2007. the last rime we had direct comparison with another of the top drivers. Not criticising him at all, but i think you are unfair to Ferrari with those comments.

 

OK, fair point, i stand corrected

 

Agree with all of this. Ferrari have been right up there since the Mugello test.

 

I think Alonso pointed out that he wasnt the quickest today, but was able to get enough traction out of turn 3 to defend into turn 6. He was also quite fortunate with the back markers and managed to look after his tyres better than Jenson who had an extra lap on his - which was probably the difference!

For me the Ferrari is equal to the others but with the combination of Alonso as the driver they are the fastest over the race distance! JB started too far back to really challenge and when he didnt pass Alonso straight away I felt that he should have switched to a 3 stop and had a run at them at the end. Given that there was less than a 1/10th beween JB, Alonso & Vettle for most of the race it would be hard to say that either of the front 3 had a better car than each other.

 

I think Alonso pointed out that he wasnt the quickest today, but was able to get enough traction out of turn 3 to defend into turn 6. He was also quite fortunate with the back markers and managed to look after his tyres better than Jenson who had an extra lap on his - which was probably the difference!

For me the Ferrari is equal to the others but with the combination of Alonso as the driver they are the fastest over the race distance! JB started too far back to really challenge and when he didnt pass Alonso straight away I felt that he should have switched to a 3 stop and had a run at them at the end. Given that there was less than a 1/10th beween JB, Alonso & Vettle for most of the race it would be hard to say that either of the front 3 had a better car than each other.

 

Suprise suprise.

 

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McLaren have taken their collective eye off the ball.

 

I was pleased to see a resurgent Jenson Button today. He raced very well and was a genuine contender for the victory, but had too much to do after the first couple of laps. Alonso was in command all the way through, and had judged his race brilliantly to leave plenty (of tyres) in hand if he'd been caught by Button who'd had to be hard on his tyres, simply to pose a distant threat.

I want to add that I have seen a rather distorted view that Alonso is not driving the best car. There can be no doubting his considerable racing 'nous' (he was even aware of the advantage of having Hamilton behind him, acting as a buffer to Vettel) but Massa's performances are not something I give much credence to as an argument for a poor car.

It should be clear to any follower of F1 – especially those sufficiently interested to visit and contribute a forum – that F1 cars evolve very quickly and that this is likely to be amplified in such a hotly contested season. Ferrari may have lagged behind at the start but are now steaming ahead. McLaren's massive Hockenheim upgrade has already happened but was only enough for them to draw roughly level. I expect Ferrari to be next with any significant performance improvement (certainly relative to McLaren). Then again Red Bull, Lotus and Mercedes are in roughly the same ball-park and may also bring updates more in tune with Ferrari's timing, whilst McLaren's consistent dropping of the ball has left them out of step with the other front runners and has left them an awful lot of work to do to find further improvement to keep up, in my opinion.

 

Good to see Button recovering. Needs to do well at the next race as well though.

Also I hope we don't see a repeat of last season from Lewis, a good start slowly degrading into a disastrous season...

 

My thanks to BLS for his simple but very informative graph.

 

In my haste its now short changing Button 3 points

 

McLaren are definitely the fastest now. Ferrari are close, but still behind Red Bull and McLaren.

 

No, Red Bull are fastest. FACT.