The Breakfast Debate

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Doc said:
LeedsLover you need correcting mate. Although you are correct about GFH in 1 respect, you are forgetting that they own a piece of paper called a DEBENTURE. This means that the club owe GFH a price at a certain point in time down the road. It also means Leeds cannot do anything without GFH agreeing to it first. So hope that clears things up. Either Cellino or Radz needs to buy that debenture back but GFH want more money than its worth, as the price agreed was for 5 years time at a set price. To bin them now Radz is trying to do it early but GFH want higher price.
Click to expand...

LeedsLover you need correcting mate...............nice way of putting it Doc.

Although you are correct about GFH in 1 respect,...............then why do I need to be corrected?

I'm not a banker, and don't profess to know the details of the debenture, I do know if I took out a loan from a bank then they can seize the asset, or any of my assets to recover their money if I default on the loan agreement.

Does anyone actually know the full details of the debenture.

If GFH control every decision needed to be made at LUFC, this would mean there would be thousands of letters, phone calls or emails between LUFC and GFH on a very regular basis, in other words, if LUFC want to take a pisss then they need to ask GFH for permission, every time, I find this hard to believe.

The everyday running, and all related requirements/procedures of LUFC is done by LUFC, not GFH.

Example, A player is classed as an asset to the club, can GFH take a player from LUFC if they feel like it? if so, what would they do with the player? they can't sell him because the player is registered with LUFC, and not GFH, it's also illegal for a single person or group (not football club) to own a player in the UK.

I also find it hard to believe that Cellino would restructure the loan deal giving GFH full control over LUFC, it's not Cellino's way, if this was the case would Radz have bought into the club in the first place?

I'm sure Radz solicitors/advisors, and backing group would've been aware of the full situation before buying 50% of LUFC.

From what I've read, and as I understand it, GFH get a certain amount from LUFC untill 2029, the debt will be paid and finalised, just like repaying a loan back to bank, or, GFH get their money owed in full if full or controlling ownership changes hands.

As far as I'm aware, and as you rightly pointed out, the stumbling block for Radz is GFH want their money once full ownership is transferred to Radz, as per the agreement and, also want more than they're owed. GFH can't go outside this agreement and make demands which are not within the details of the agreement; if the amount owed has been set, as per the agreement, then they can't demand more.

I don't believe GFH have as much control over LUFC as some are making out....... :emoticon-0148-yes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: gombawn
I understand selling Wood for £20m because the thought of all that money is tempting but I also agree with those saying who are we going to replace him with?

What team would be willing to sell a 20 goal a season striker and we probably need two. They are not going to come cheap and what does it say to the rest of the team and future transfer targets?

Once the Cellino issue is resolved and we have Rad 100% in charge keeping players like Wood will signal a purpose of intent, it will say to future transfer targets we mean business and we are going for it.
 
LeedsLover said:
LeedsLover you need correcting mate...............nice way of putting it Doc.

Although you are correct about GFH in 1 respect,...............then why do I need to be corrected?

I'm not a banker, and don't profess to know the details of the debenture, I do know if I took out a loan from a bank then they can seize the asset, or any of my assets to recover their money if I default on the loan agreement.

Does anyone actually know the full details of the debenture.

If GFH control every decision needed to be made at LUFC, this would mean there would be thousands of letters, phone calls or emails between LUFC and GFH on a very regular basis, in other words, if LUFC want to take a pisss then they need to ask GFH for permission, every time, I find this hard to believe.

The everyday running, and all related requirements/procedures of LUFC is done by LUFC, not GFH.

Example, A player is classed as an asset to the club, can GFH take a player from LUFC if they feel like it? if so, what would they do with the player? they can't sell him because the player is registered with LUFC, and not GFH, it's also illegal for a single person or group (not football club) to own a player in the UK.

I also find it hard to believe that Cellino would restructure the loan deal giving GFH full control over LUFC, it's not Cellino's way, if this was the case would Radz have bought into the club in the first place?

I'm sure Radz solicitors/advisors, and backing group would've been aware of the full situation before buying 50% of LUFC.

From what I've read, and as I understand it, GFH get a certain amount from LUFC untill 2029, the debt will be paid and finalised, just like repaying a loan back to bank, or, GFH get their money owed in full if full or controlling ownership changes hands.

As far as I'm aware, and as you rightly pointed out, the stumbling block for Radz is GFH want their money once full ownership is transferred to Radz, as per the agreement and, also want more than they're owed. GFH can't go outside this agreement and make demands which are not within the details of the agreement; if the amount owed has been set, as per the agreement, then they can't demand more.

I don't believe GFH have as much control over LUFC as some are making out....... :emoticon-0148-yes:
Click to expand...

Why use one word when a million will do .....
 
  • Like
Reactions: wakeybreakyheart and FORZA LEEDS
LeedsLover said:
LeedsLover you need correcting mate...............nice way of putting it Doc.

Although you are correct about GFH in 1 respect,...............then why do I need to be corrected?

I'm not a banker, and don't profess to know the details of the debenture, I do know if I took out a loan from a bank then they can seize the asset, or any of my assets to recover their money if I default on the loan agreement.

Does anyone actually know the full details of the debenture.

If GFH control every decision needed to be made at LUFC, this would mean there would be thousands of letters, phone calls or emails between LUFC and GFH on a very regular basis, in other words, if LUFC want to take a pisss then they need to ask GFH for permission, every time, I find this hard to believe.

The everyday running, and all related requirements/procedures of LUFC is done by LUFC, not GFH.

Example, A player is classed as an asset to the club, can GFH take a player from LUFC if they feel like it? if so, what would they do with the player? they can't sell him because the player is registered with LUFC, and not GFH, it's also illegal for a single person or group (not football club) to own a player in the UK.

I also find it hard to believe that Cellino would restructure the loan deal giving GFH full control over LUFC, it's not Cellino's way, if this was the case would Radz have bought into the club in the first place?

I'm sure Radz solicitors/advisors, and backing group would've been aware of the full situation before buying 50% of LUFC.

From what I've read, and as I understand it, GFH get a certain amount from LUFC untill 2029, the debt will be paid and finalised, just like repaying a loan back to bank, or, GFH get their money owed in full if full or controlling ownership changes hands.

As far as I'm aware, and as you rightly pointed out, the stumbling block for Radz is GFH want their money once full ownership is transferred to Radz, as per the agreement and, also want more than they're owed. GFH can't go outside this agreement and make demands which are not within the details of the agreement; if the amount owed has been set, as per the agreement, then they can't demand more.

I don't believe GFH have as much control over LUFC as some are making out....... :emoticon-0148-yes:
Click to expand...
"I'm not a banker, and don't profess to know the details of the debenture..."

So why, when you admit to knowing fcuk all about it, do you then go on to write a feckin' dissertation on the situation? And establish exactly feck all! <doh>
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marcos Barber and FORZA LEEDS
Whitejock said:
"I'm not a banker, and don't profess to know the details of the debenture..."

So why, when you admit to knowing fcuk all about it, do you then go on to write a feckin' dissertation on the situation? And establish exactly feck all! <doh>
Click to expand...
Because he,s given the clearest explanation that Gfh do not own any part of leeds United. Only the wallies could argue otherwise
 
  • Like
Reactions: LeedsLover
gombawn said:
Because he,s given the clearest explanation that Gfh do not own any part of leeds United. Only the wallies could argue otherwise
Click to expand...

As you claim to be the clever accountant, maybe you should explain what the debenture entails - in English though - most on here wouldn't understand number crunching talk, or didicoy for that matter <ok>
 
  • Like
Reactions: Whitejock
gombawn said:
Because he,s given the clearest explanation that Gfh do not own any part of leeds United. Only the wallies could argue otherwise
Click to expand...
Got to disagree with you there, old boy.

Doc and TC have given much clearer, more specific & accurately concise explanations, and I can see that TC is positively bristling going by his post, above. The point of my post was that LL professed to know bugger all about the subject then went on to tell us all about it at length - & told us nothing we didn't already know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wakeybreakyheart
TC (Lovely Geezer) said:
As you claim to be the clever accountant, maybe you should explain what the debenture entails - in English though - most on here wouldn't understand number crunching talk, or didicoy for that matter <ok>
Click to expand...
Never claimed to be clever, you just assume I am which is understandable. I have no idea what the debenture entails because I haven,t seen the agreement. Neither has anyone else on here
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eireleeds1 and Whitejock
Whitejock said:
Got to disagree with you there, old boy.

Doc and TC have given much clearer, more specific & accurately concise explanations, and I can see that TC is positively bristling going by his post, above. The point of my post was that LL professed to know bugger all about the subject then went on to tell us all about it at length - & told us nothing we didn't already know.
Click to expand...
You are just letting your dislike of LL blind you in this matter. Maybe TC and doc were clearer and concise but LL was more accurate. Get a grip its TC we are talking about!!!
Gfh do not own any shares in leeds and without seeing the specific terms of the denture it is just a loan secured against some assets which it appears in this instance becomes immediately repeatable upon a change of ownership. And that last bit is speculation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LeedsLover and Eireleeds1
LL needs to read up on debentures ffs. GFH may own no shares but they OWN a portion of the club. The debenture is a vehicle for purchasing shares but at a price in the future. It allowed Cellino to take 100% of the club on paper but not in reality as GFH still own a part & as part of the debenture agreement they still have voting rights as any Major boatd decisions which may affect the valuation of the club must be agreed with GFH. Hope that makes sense, so they dont own shares but have a bit of paper much more powerful than shares. They have budgeted for a certain price in 5 years time but Radz wants them to accept a price now, theres the stumbling block.

Radz is powerless due to GFH debenture simple as that
 
  • Like
Reactions: Whitejock and Chippy / Glory
Some of you may be aware that some top golf clubs dont have normal memberships. If you want to join the club you have to buy a debenture then pay an anual membership fee. The debenture is owned by the member & he is then a part owner of the golf club and he has voting rights. If he leaves he sells his debenture at the going rate based upon club valuation
 
If GFH shares were worth say £5m but Cellino didnt hav ethe money to buy the shares, he gives them a debenture based upon a valuation of said shares in 5 years time which could be £8m. Simple and easy and gets the deal done. Doesnt really help a new owner though if he has to get permission of GFH for big decisions.

End
 
Doc said:
LL needs to read up on debentures ffs. GFH may own no shares but they OWN a portion of the club. The debenture is a vehicle for purchasing shares but at a price in the future. It allowed Cellino to take 100% of the club on paper but not in reality as GFH still own a part & as part of the debenture agreement they still have voting rights as any Major boatd decisions which may affect the valuation of the club must be agreed with GFH. Hope that makes sense, so they dont own shares but have a bit of paper much more powerful than shares. They have budgeted for a certain price in 5 years time but Radz wants them to accept a price now, theres the stumbling block.

Radz is powerless due to GFH debenture simple as that
Click to expand...


Thats it in a nutshell.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Whitejock
Doc said:
LL needs to read up on debentures ffs. GFH may own no shares but they OWN a portion of the club. The debenture is a vehicle for purchasing shares but at a price in the future. It allowed Cellino to take 100% of the club on paper but not in reality as GFH still own a part & as part of the debenture agreement they still have voting rights as any Major boatd decisions which may affect the valuation of the club must be agreed with GFH. Hope that makes sense, so they dont own shares but have a bit of paper much more powerful than shares. They have budgeted for a certain price in 5 years time but Radz wants them to accept a price now, theres the stumbling block.

Radz is powerless due to GFH debenture simple as that
Click to expand...
Sounds like Santa Clause is involved.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back