Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Albert's Chip Shop, Aug 28, 2019.
Mad max 5- beyond Brexit
It's not a General Strike, it's an M&S General Strike......
I am DEPARTACUS. and will lead us against the legions of unwashed 6 fingered millennial snowflakes who fight for the unelected Emperor tyrant Corbiniys all hail Departacus
You do realise you are saying:
"We of course need a trade deal with the EU. Rather than negotiate one while we are in a position to implement it efficiently and while we are on somewhat good terms, let's wait until we suffer the disruption of an absence of any trading relationships and until we are an arms length third party to negotiate it."
I don't want to say anything insulting but that is not a smart way to proceed.
And if what you are saying is that we will survive a no deal, we of course will. We will just be poorer and have higher unemployment for quite a while (maybe a long while) as a result of proceeding in this way.
No one voted for no deal
Brexit could have taken many forms.
Everyone knew that because both sides pointed all the pros and cons out..
And still the majority voted Brexit.
It's so simple it could have been written in crayon.
Back our country fella.
Sometimes in life you need to take a step back to take two forward.
This is not about who is backing our country and who isn't. I am. I don't know anyone who isn't.
If it were that simple, it could be written in crayon. The problem is that it is complicated and pretending it is crayon simple is not going to make it less complicated. It is only going to give us a crayon simple strategy to address a complex problem.
Corbyn endorsing this now:
Boris must be laughing his head off here. Ordinary people trying to drive their taxis, get to work get to hospital.. the shops etc... will be affected the most. All it will do is turn public opinion FURTHER against the friend of Hamas, Hezbollah and the leader of an anti Semitic party.. .comrade Corbyn and the rabid baying mob that is the remoaniacs. On LBC last night there was a Remoaniac having a meltdown which would eclipse Bri's. She was saying Boris is as bad as Hitler and that we are now in a dictatorship. It was hilarious so listen to.
I can't wait for the general election now... Corbyn is gonna have his arse handed to him on a silver platter... and then the Labour Party I want to vote for can rise again. For the first and last time at the next election I'll vote Tory... just to wipe that old tramp off the face of the political landscape.
Mate, life is one big set of problems to be fair and the only guarantee is that there s always a solution... it just takes time to find one. FWIW I think we either:
1- Hard Brexit- and then in a couple of weeks post brexit a new deal is done
2- Agree a Deal- at the last minute as the EU realise we are really willing to leave
The EU are already softening their 'immovable stance'...
Boris has them on the hook.
İn 5 years time we'll all look back and laugh about this. I'm pissing myself laughing now.
I think what has bothered me most about this whole affair is how *nobody* - from any party - is defending *representative* democracy.
We invented representative democracy. It is arguably Britain's greatest gift to the world. It's certainly one of the things I'm most proud of about our country.
In direct democracy (i.e. referendums) nobody can be held responsible for the promises they make. In British democracy, if you promise the earth, you have to damn well deliver it, or get voted out 5 years later, or usually, sooner.
The result of the EU advisory referendum was clear: the people advised the government to prepare to leave the EU. Nobody knew what that would look like at the time. He We do now - either a no-deal brexit, or a deal that looks very much like what TM brought back.
In order for this to be democratic - as defined by the country that ****ing invented it - we now need an election with parties standing on *clear* policies:
Tory - No Deal
Labour - Deal (they need to be realistic and admit that any deal will look like what TM got, or set out very clearly what compromises their deal will make)
Lib Dem - Remain
Failing that we need a final referendum with ranked voting on those three options. But we would be better off having parties committing to deliver a particular outcome, and being judged on it.
I agreed up until option 3. Remain should not be an option. The type of leave should be.
Genuine question - would you *ban* from a political party standing on a remain platform at a GE? That's not British democracy at all.
And if you can't ban a party, how can you remove the option in a referendum?
I can see the point that it's possible to repeatedly ask a question until you get the answer you want. The EU have been guilty of this before, sure, as are the SNP.
Equally, we now know what Brexit *really* looks like - we rightly have spent the time and money, and incurred the cost of uncertainty, to find out.
But it looks very different to what many people claimed it would. That doesn't make them liars, or the voters stupid: it was genuine uncertainty. But now we know the nature of the choice, we must allow people to make it. If people want to leave, they can vote for it (and it should be RANKED preference, so the leave vote isn't unfairly split). The final decision (No deal, deal or remain) would have to get >50% of people's first and second choice votes.
I can see *tactically* why you might argue to remove the option - if you wanted to ensure we left. But is there a good democratic reason for doing so? If remain could win, surely it must be on the ballot in a democratic election? And if it can't win, what are you worried about?
What I also don’t like is when politics spils over into civil disobedience.
Both sides of the divide seem to not give a **** about democracy. A pox on everyone who is behaving like a **** over Brexit.
I think the democratic reason would be we've already voted on whether we want to leave. We knew when voting that we didn't have all the facts about what it would look like, so I don't like how people (i.e. remoaners) have tactically introduced that as the reason we need another vote. The same as the tactical reasoning people were duped by the promises. Just **** off with their bullshit. We knew what we were voting for.
The democratic thing to do is enact the result of the first vote. We should not have offered a vote if we were going to move the goalposts at a later date. You could in theory offer another vote on the deal we can get against no deal. I'm not sure why the people need to vote on that though? What are we paying these politicians such huge wages if they can't do their job?
Why remain would get re-introduced, there doesn't appear to be a democratic reason. Not without performing the anti democratic act of threatening not to carry out the first vote. Remain has been and gone for me. Looking at the polls many are suggesting that leave would still win. The only justifiable and democratic reason I can see for another vote involving a remain choice would be if there was an inkling there had been a fundamental shift in what people want. That isn't the case.
The question you ask is back to front. The question should be what justifiable democratic reason is there to offer people the chance to remain. What will piss me off massively as a voter (a remain voter at that) is if we spend the huge amount of money it costs to run another vote only for the polls to be confirmed and we still have to leave. Its not acceptable in terms of timeframes to carry out the first vote, its not acceptable the damage these delays are doing to the economy, and its not acceptable in terms of wasting taxpayers money. Simply shouting from the rooftops like these liberal clowns while quaffing wine, eating cheese and hummus is not a reason to have a vote.