The ballot...

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By the way what the **** is an evidenced concern?

I think that lady is sitting in the seat that is assigned to a man, Officer please arrest her.

Evidenced bollocks
 
I’ve inspected your ticket (Mr 40 year old) and believe it’s not yours and it’s a child’s.

Bye!


Arf.


As for pub land lords... it’s simple land law license. Same as letting a postie on your drive.
It’s not some time hallowed special power. You remove a permission and someone is not allowed in.

And if a supporter is NOT in agreement with the T and Cs then there is no contract in place and they have no right to be there. So can be told to leave.
Meh. This is a waste of breath.
 
Mr. Shoes said:
I’ve inspected your ticket (Mr 40 year old) and believe it’s not yours and it’s a child’s.

Bye!


Arf.


As for pub land lords... it’s somple land law license. Same as letting a postie on your drive.
It’s not some time hallowed special power.
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You have moved to goal posts. This is about having to prove who you are.
 
The Omega Man said:
You have moved to goal posts. This is about having to prove who you are.
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The Omega Man said:
Let me make it clear.

The Police will not arrest you for not disclosing your name.
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Pace code g extract:

...to enable the name of the person in question to be ascertained (in the case where the constable does not know, and cannot readily ascertain, the person’s name, or has reasonable grounds for doubting whether a name given by the person as his name is his real name):
An officer might decide that a person’s name cannot be readily ascertained if they fail or refuse to give it when asked, particularly after being warned that failure or refusal is likely to make their arrest necessary (see Note 2D). Grounds to doubt a name given may arise if the person appears reluctant or hesitant when asked to give their name or to verify the name they have given


That’s pretty irrefutable?
 
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Mr. Shoes said:
Pace code g extract:

...to enable the name of the person in question to be ascertained (in the case where the constable does not know, and cannot readily ascertain, the person’s name, or has reasonable grounds for doubting whether a name given by the person as his name is his real name):
An officer might decide that a person’s name cannot be readily ascertained if they fail or refuse to give it when asked, particularly after being warned that failure or refusal is likely to make their arrest necessary (see Note 2D). Grounds to doubt a name given may arise if the person appears reluctant or hesitant when asked to give their name or to verify the name they have given


That’s pretty irrefutable?
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Stop posting ****e. What you have quoted is completely out of context.
 
Holy ****in ****. 63 pages of **** knows what. I would like to say that in some small way I have learned something. But thank you all for trying to clear the muddied waters, all I got was splinters from scratching my head.
 
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I’ve had enough.

Next time a steward asks for ID you can sit and ignore them. Allegedly.

Try it.

See why happens. Easier than reading this bollocks.
 
Not clear if this is anything to do with this argument but my experience is thus. I drove an independent mini bus to Cardiff v City a couple of years ago and on arriving at Cardiff's ground the police shoved a video camera in all of our faces as we got off the bus. I refused to be filmed as I hadn't done anything wrong, everyone else was to full of beer to care. I was then refused entry to the ground. The excuse given was something about them ( Cardiff City) having the right to let who they wanted into the ground and on this occasion they didn't want me. I simply went to the next block of turnstiles, away from the stewards and police and produced my ticket.
Again Stoke away, ushered into a fenced car park by the police then asked for my name and address, which I refused to give as I hadn't done anything wrong. This time the police contacted the mini bus firm, who refused our booking the next time we tried to book the bus, which show the police had leaned on them in some way.
To me this 'membership' scheme is nothing but another way of forcing ID cards onto football fans which opens the door for the authorities to do exactly what they want. They have forgotten that we are all customers, not criminals.
 
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**** me, 21 pages in a week.

Has anything happened at all or just more babble?

Has anyone voted in vote for no concessions attempt #2
 
Mr. Shoes said:
Eh??

I’m lost. You can’t grant anyone extra legislative powers (unless it’s desginated by legislation).

Under civil law you just create entitlements by contract. You can’t contract to bestow legislative powers on someone but you can create rights (there are laws to prevent contract terms that are incompatible with statute and excessive).

If you contract to say that any person in the ground agrees to provide evidence of concession entitlement, that leads to a legitimacy for a steward to ask for ID.

Checking seat numbers and entry records can quickly give an indication of whether the person sat somewhere looks the right age...

Failure to comply doesn’t give the steward magic powers to arrest. In reality you’d be asked to leave if you were caught out and may face some sort of retrospective action if you had a club account?

There are different arguments being conflated here.
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As I said it depends what's in the contract. Is it reasonable to evict a person for breach of contract simply because they forgot to bring their passport or other photographic evidence of ID?

I didn't mention powers of arrest.
 
Obadiah said:
As I said it depends what's in the contract. Is it reasonable to evict a person for breach of contract simply because they forgot to bring their passport or other photographic evidence of ID?

I didn't mention powers of arrest.
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Didn't the club say they're bringing in membership cards with a photo on?
 
Phil West-Upper. said:
To me this 'membership' scheme is nothing but another way of forcing ID cards onto football fans which opens the door for the authorities to do exactly what they want. They have forgotten that we are all customers, not criminals.
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^^This ..... as well as me not having a club 'membership' I certainly aren't having an ID card.
 
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I think we have lost sight of what the actual propose system is in all of this discussion:

  1. We will be empowering stewards to do regular on the spot checks on the stadium grounds including: before entry, at the gates, in the stadium, whilst you are seated, and as you are leaving- in short, anywhere at any time in the stadium. You will need to be able to prove who you are, and if you can’t the membership card will be confiscated.
  2. If you are found to be abusing the revised rules i.e. using someone else’s card or using a card that is not the correct age group for you, the Club will confiscate your card on the spot and you will be ejected from the stadium.
  3. Following confiscation, to get your card back you will need to collect your card from the Stadium after 48 hours (during Ticket Zone opening hours). To collect your card you will need to prove your identity again with photo ID. If you have bought the incorrect card for your age group, you will need to pay the backdated amount for monies owed since you registered as a Member. You will also be charged a fine of £35. Please note, your card would be placed ‘on hold’ until the fine is paid.
They do not say they will eject you for refusing/being unable to prove your ID. Eviction is only mentioned if you are using somebody else's card or a card for a concession you are no tentitled to.

If you can't or won't prove your ID they will confiscate your card and expect you to get it back from them 48 hours later bringing ID with you.

So if you lend someone a ticket, make sure they refuse to show ID and you can collect it yourself later.
 
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TreeHugger said:
I think we have lost sight of what the actual propose system is in all of this discussion:

  1. We will be empowering stewards to do regular on the spot checks on the stadium grounds including: before entry, at the gates, in the stadium, whilst you are seated, and as you are leaving- in short, anywhere at any time in the stadium. You will need to be able to prove who you are, and if you can’t the membership card will be confiscated.
  2. If you are found to be abusing the revised rules i.e. using someone else’s card or using a card that is not the correct age group for you, the Club will confiscate your card on the spot and you will be ejected from the stadium.
  3. Following confiscation, to get your card back you will need to collect your card from the Stadium after 48 hours (during Ticket Zone opening hours). To collect your card you will need to prove your identity again with photo ID. If you have bought the incorrect card for your age group, you will need to pay the backdated amount for monies owed since you registered as a Member. You will also be charged a fine of £35. Please note, your card would be placed ‘on hold’ until the fine is paid.
They do not say they will eject you for refusing/being unable to prove your ID. Eviction is only mentioned if you are using somebody else's card or a card for a concession you are no tentitled to.

If you can't or won't prove your ID they will confiscate your card and expect you to get it back from them 48 hours later bringing ID with you.

So if you lend someone a ticket, make sure they refuse to show ID and you can collect it yourself later.
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The stewards haven't got the legal power to take the card off you if you refuse to give it or show it to them.
 
Obadiah said:
The stewards haven't got the legal power to take the card off you if you refuse to give it or show it to them.
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Can't find a facepalm emoji. I'm sure if you were to refuse to hand it over then they could just void the card for the seat in question and make you go in with ID to reactiviate it then.
 
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