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Kempton said:
We're over complicating this. It's a **** deal. That can't even be argued.

Just don't enter the game. Don't vote. Cancel membership. It's all there is.
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We are over complicated it by getting involved in their games. Abstain from voting as the trust should have recommended from day one. The Allams will never change, people need to stop trusting them.

As you say, vote with your feet and boycott. My boycott continues but I can't wait for Burton away tomorrow to support the lads.
 
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Fez said:
Why so indignant: it's a conversational turn-of -phrase, not a personal instruction, ffs.

Where the hell did I mention anything about my opinion being any sort of a bench mark for 'reasonable'? Society in general will end up leveling what is reasonable behaviour by how it responds.

I think I have made it clear that detail is important (common ticket transfer policy), but only in-so-much as preventing an egg on the chin moment later. The style of publicising the draconian policing policy is laughable and is open to being held in contempt and publicly laughed at - even better, force them to carry it out and see where that leads. How the hell you and Balkan seem to have come to the strange conclusion that I advocate looking the other way is beyond me.
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I wasn’t indignant. I used a conversational turn of phrase
Can you save your arguments for when I actually disagree with you?
I don’t think you’re advocating much different to me. I was just more interested in looking into the detail that’s all, no big deal

On your question about what is reasonable, I was simply pointing out that society in general tends to have a tougher view on what is reasonable for football supporters than for most other groups

Apologies for agreeing and spoiling the opportunity to argue
 
If these ID proposals were implemented and enforced, then in my opinion, anyone who agrees and signs up deserve everything they get. Unforunately, there are an awful lot of people with the “If you’ve done nothing wrong then there’s nothing to hide” mentality and will comply with any request from a steward- with proof of who they are willingly shown. It’s all academic anyway as, unless I’m missing something, it’s designed to influence people to reject the package and Ehab will announce that we stay as we are.
 
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Den

More https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=308687.0

"Stewards have every right to ask a supporter to show their tickets. They do not have the powers to ask fans to show their ID. However, stewards and the regulations around them often rely on something being a "reasonable request". Whether or not it is reasonable for stewards to ask fans to show them ID is open to debate. It is up to a supporter to decide if, in their personal view, it is reasonable. What fans should be very wary of is allowing stewards to take their ID away to copy it or allowing stewards to note down personal details from ID such as an address or date of birth.

If a fan does not co-operate with a steward in showing ID there is a possibility that a steward may call over a police officer to ask them to search a fan or demand a fan shows ID. In theory a police officer should not get involved as this is civil not criminal law, but in practice they probably will.

Unless the police suspect you of an offence you do not have to give your personal details but the likelihood is the police may threaten you with arrest if you don't. It takes a strong person to stand their ground in these circumstances.

More details on this are available here

The police should not go through your pockets or wallet etc to find ID. If they do you have grounds for complaint.

If a fan is ejected during the game it is likely the stewards will demand the fan gives them their name and address. This again brings us back to the point on whether or not that is deemed a reasonable request and again it is possible stewards will involve the police if a supporter doesn't co-operate. If a fan does give their name and address to the police or stewards then those details will be passed back to LFC who may ban supporters even if a criminal offence hasn't been committed."
 
The Omega Man said:
Den

More https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=308687.0

"Stewards have every right to ask a supporter to show their tickets. They do not have the powers to ask fans to show their ID. However, stewards and the regulations around them often rely on something being a "reasonable request". Whether or not it is reasonable for stewards to ask fans to show them ID is open to debate. It is up to a supporter to decide if, in their personal view, it is reasonable. What fans should be very wary of is allowing stewards to take their ID away to copy it or allowing stewards to note down personal details from ID such as an address or date of birth.

If a fan does not co-operate with a steward in showing ID there is a possibility that a steward may call over a police officer to ask them to search a fan or demand a fan shows ID. In theory a police officer should not get involved as this is civil not criminal law, but in practice they probably will.

Unless the police suspect you of an offence you do not have to give your personal details but the likelihood is the police may threaten you with arrest if you don't. It takes a strong person to stand their ground in these circumstances.

More details on this are available here

The police should not go through your pockets or wallet etc to find ID. If they do you have grounds for complaint.

If a fan is ejected during the game it is likely the stewards will demand the fan gives them their name and address. This again brings us back to the point on whether or not that is deemed a reasonable request and again it is possible stewards will involve the police if a supporter doesn't co-operate. If a fan does give their name and address to the police or stewards then those details will be passed back to LFC who may ban supporters even if a criminal offence hasn't been committed."
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TOM
I know all that
But if their proposed scheme was introduced it is irrelevant what guidance for stewards elsewhere is
You’ll have signed a contract, if you join, to say that you allow them to check your ID at any time
I can only imagine it would be practically enforceable on the way in, but there’s no point quoting what it’s like elsewhere if you’ve signed to say you’re allowing them do that as a condition of you being allowed in
 
People seem to forget just how good the Allams are at reading and acting upon contracts, lease's and other legal documents. Airco Arena, the groundsmen, the gate, SMC passing any profit to HCC, players contracts, and more.

Why do some people think they would not spend money to implement their stupid regulations? they paid good money to take down the HCC sign from the stadium, for what? Always remember they are petty, vindictive, childish ****s.
 
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There’s some rubbish being spouted on here.
The club (read stewards) can throw you out if they want as you only have a contract to be there and if you breach it they can remove you. You agree all this in your purchase t and c’s

A steward can ask for ID. If you refuse they can’t force you to show any but they can eject you. They’d need a reason though to show they aren’t just being excessive.

It’s missing The point by miles to say they can’t make anyone show it...
the argument is they can demand it if it’s a contract term and they can eject or terminate the contract if you don’t.
Like any legal actions, the requests must be based on some expectation you are breaching some rule rather than just speculative asking.

Effectively, the club could say any patron must provide photo ID when asked or be liable to ejection. Realistically that wouldn’t look great and the likely option is words to the effect that if a club official suspects abuse of the payment terms they may request proof of your entitlement to any concession which includes identity.

Done.
 
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dennisboothstash said:
I wasn’t indignant. I used a conversational turn of phrase
Can you save your arguments for when I actually disagree with you?
I don’t think you’re advocating much different to me. I was just more interested in looking into the detail that’s all, no big deal

On your question about what is reasonable, I was simply pointing out that society in general tends to have a tougher view on what is reasonable for football supporters than for most other groups

Apologies for agreeing and spoiling the opportunity to argue
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This is a tad similar to ‘I was only joking’.

You had a dig. You never mentioned society (I did), you referred to my take on reasonable. But never mind.

You seem to constantly refer to my arguing, why, as I do no more and probably much less than you. I think you jump in and don’t understand what has already been said. Either that or you enjoy arguing...
 
YoThere’s some rubbish being spouted on here.
The club (read stewards) can throw you out if they want as you only have a contract to be there and if you breach it they can remove you. You agree all this in your purchase t and c’s

Let’s see if you contradict yourself.

A steward can ask for ID. If you refuse they can’t force you to show any oh dear but they can eject you. They’d need a reason though to show they aren’t just being excessive. So not showing your ID wouldn’t be enough

It’s missing The point by miles to say they can’t make anyone show it...but they can’t
the argument is they can demand it if it’s a contract term and they can eject or terminate the contract if you don’t. You just said that they would need another reason
Like any legal actions, the requests must be based on some expectation you are breaching some rule rather than just speculative asking. Like spot checks, as the club suggests it could do anywhere in the stadium at any time, but Supporters Direct advice “Do not give your details” even if you are being chucked out for pitch invasion.

Effectively, the club could say any patron must provide photo ID when asked or be liable to ejection. What happened to them needing a reason Realistically that wouldn’t look great and the likely option is words to the effect that if a club official suspects abuse of the payment terms they may request proof of your entitlement to any concession which includes identity. Drivel

Done. You would be, like a kipper.
 
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If the Allams don't introduce concessions or introduce concessions with compulsory ID checks the protests continue. Its not complicated. The club is dying and the Allams are too incompetent to turn it around.
 
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Tom, mate. If we can't sort the mess the Allams are making, all that excellent charity work will be ****ed.

There's no reason why you should trust me, but...
 
The Omega Man said:
YoThere’s some rubbish being spouted on here.
The club (read stewards) can throw you out if they want as you only have a contract to be there and if you breach it they can remove you. You agree all this in your purchase t and c’s

Let’s see if you contradict yourself.

A steward can ask for ID. If you refuse they can’t force you to show any oh dear but they can eject you. They’d need a reason though to show they aren’t just being excessive. So not showing your ID wouldn’t be enough

It’s missing The point by miles to say they can’t make anyone show it...but they can’t
the argument is they can demand it if it’s a contract term and they can eject or terminate the contract if you don’t. You just said that they would need another reason
Like any legal actions, the requests must be based on some expectation you are breaching some rule rather than just speculative asking. Like spot checks, as the club suggests it could do anywhere in the stadium at any time, but Supporters Direct advice “Do not give your details” even if you are being chucked out for pitch invasion.

Effectively, the club could say any patron must provide photo ID when asked or be liable to ejection. What happened to them needing a reason Realistically that wouldn’t look great and the likely option is words to the effect that if a club official suspects abuse of the payment terms they may request proof of your entitlement to any concession which includes identity. Drivel

Done. You would be, like a kipper.
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WTF is all that?

The Omega Man said:
Whilst some on here believe that a contract overrides English Law it doesn’t and it never will.
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That’s true. You can’t contract out of legislation.
But, being serious, what legislation are you on about !???
 
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Fez said:
This is a tad similar to ‘I was only joking’.

You had a dig. You never mentioned society (I did), you referred to my take on reasonable. But never mind.

You seem to constantly refer to my arguing, why, as I do no more and probably much less than you. I think you jump in and don’t understand what has already been said. Either that or you enjoy arguing...
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Still trying to have one then?
Fair play for not giving up.
 
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