Thatcher Dies

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Zingy said:
I said something similar on Facebook last night, comparing it to Savile's death as he was seen as a hero when he died too. Got a huge backlash from supposed friends and even some family. Left a bitter taste in my mouth how some people were quick to judge me on my views but openly saw her as a 'great' lady.
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Jimmy Saville leaving a bitter taste in the mouth eh...:bandit:
 
I seem to remember the **** telling us to rejoice at the hundreds of deaths she ordered when the Belgrano was sunk, so it's ok to rejoice no that she's popped her clogs.:cool:
 
Page_Moss_Kopite said:
I seem to remember the **** telling us to rejoice at the hundreds of deaths she ordered when the Belgrano was sunk, so it's ok to rejoice no that she's popped her clogs.:cool:
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haha, true enough, anyway **** her, the auld Tory witch.
 
Redreggy said:
I'm 51 and lived through Thatchers Rule.Just gonna say had a pact with me mate to meet in the pub within the hour of hearing about her death.Done and sorted.<cheers>
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Nice one Reggy <ok> I was celebrating in the pub last night. Only one person in there had good things to say about her. He's 33. He didn't stay in for very long <laugh>
 
KingEric07 said:
A village in Doncaster.

Whereas I certainly won't shed any tears I still think it's a bit wrong to celebrate someone dying but each to their own.
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Although there is the issue of people celebrating her death, that is a sideline to the main points in the argument.
Of greater importance imo, is the need for Thatcherism to be put in it's historical context and shown for what it was- and unfortunately still is.
As I said earlier, those of us old enough to know the pre-Thatcher era can see the big picture. The Falklands, privatisation, even the miners, no matter how important individually, are just pieces of the jigsaw. Thatcherism engendered a complete change in people's attitude to themselves and society- a return to the rule of greed and selfishness and sod everyone who isn't me attitude which has been with us so long now that many people under 40 don't even realise there was an alternative.
She wasn't solely responsible for that philosophy, of course, but she is representative of it, and her death is seen as emblematic. Of course, the philosophy is entrenched now, and it's hard to see how it can end, but for some, it must be seen as the only form of justice they are ever likely to get.

Like I said, I won't celebrate her passing- unfortunately her legacy lives on- but I can understand those who will.
I think the uncritical hero worship by the establishment is in danger of becoming the accepted version, and so the public show of anti-Thatcher sentiment serves as a balance for those who didn't know, or didn't care, about her and the effects of her tenure.
 
I have a hope.Perhaps her passing will enable her undoubted complicity in the Hillsborough cover-up to enter the public domain.

We can always live in hope <ok>

Methinks this thread has legs and should certainly be stickied. Over to you Gerrez and your fellow mods <ok>
 
saintanton said:
Although there is the issue of people celebrating her death, that is a sideline to the main points in the argument.
Of greater importance imo, is the need for Thatcherism to be put in it's historical context and shown for what it was- and unfortunately still is.
As I said earlier, those of us old enough to know the pre-Thatcher era can see the big picture. The Falklands, privatisation, even the miners, no matter how important individually, are just pieces of the jigsaw. Thatcherism engendered a complete change in people's attitude to themselves and society- a return to the rule of greed and selfishness and sod everyone who isn't me attitude which has been with us so long now that many people under 40 don't even realise there was an alternative.
She wasn't solely responsible for that philosophy, of course, but she is representative of it, and her death is seen as emblematic. Of course, the philosophy is entrenched now, and it's hard to see how it can end, but for some, it must be seen as the only form of justice they are ever likely to get.

Like I said, I won't celebrate her passing- unfortunately her legacy lives on- but I can understand those who will.
I think the uncritical hero worship by the establishment is in danger of becoming the accepted version, and so the public show of anti-Thatcher sentiment serves as a balance for those who didn't know, or didn't care, about her and the effects of her tenure.
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I'm not old enough to remember Saint to be honest.

I'mnot particularly slagging people off for celebrating her death, hence the each to their own comment, it's just not what I like to see personnally.

Your experience and life lessons obviously leave you with a wider grasp of the whole picture than I could understand at my age. I do however agree with you about how she is now being painted with all of her flaws seemingly forgotten.

BTW - did you see Ed Millibands press release yesterday. Spineless bastard, ****ing Doncaster MP supposedly, talking about how great she was. The dickhead needs to shut up before he loses any credibility he has left <ok>
 
KingEric07 said:
I'm not old enough to remember Saint to be honest.

I'mnot particularly slagging people off for celebrating her death, hence the each to their own comment, it's just not what I like to see personnally.

Your experience and life lessons obviously leave you with a wider grasp of the whole picture than I could understand at my age. I do however agree with you about how she is now being painted with all of her flaws seemingly forgotten.

BTW - did you see Ed Millibands press release yesterday. Spineless bastard, ****ing Doncaster MP supposedly, talking about how great she was. The dickhead needs to shut up before he loses any credibility he has left
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This was what I was referring to in my first post, Eric- the fact that all her so-called enemies will trip over themselves to offer tribute.
It's hypocritical- but worse than that, it shows that they see the whole thing as a bit of a game where they're just trying to get one over on each other.
I'm not bothered with party politics, I'm ideologically opposed to conservatism because in my view it's an outdated philosophy from an era when class was considered a valid way of judging people, and being utterly against Thatcherism I would feel hypocritical now if I made a false show of respect for someone in death that I could never feel while she was alive.
 
Red Hadron Collider:4549053 said:
I have a hope.Perhaps her passing will enable her undoubted complicity in the Hillsborough cover-up to enter the public domain.

We can always live in hope <ok>

Methinks this thread has legs and should certainly be stickied. Over to you Gerrez and your fellow mods <ok>
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If it has the legs you speak of then it won't need to be stickied <ok>
 
saintanton said:
This was what I was referring to in my first post, Eric- the fact that all her so-called enemies will trip over themselves to offer tribute.
It's hypocritical- but worse than that, it shows that they see the whole thing as a bit of a game where they're just trying to get one over on each other.
I'm not bothered with party politics, I'm ideologically opposed to conservatism because in my view it's an outdated philosophy from an era when class was considered a valid way of judging people, and being utterly against Thatcherism I would feel hypocritical now if I made a false show of respect for someone in death that I could never feel while she was alive.
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Clear your message box mate. A PM is awaiting you.
 
<sorry>Why I do not totally agree with some terrible policies of Margret Thatcher I cannot rejoice about her death. My condolence to her two children.
 
saintanton said:
This was what I was referring to in my first post, Eric- the fact that all her so-called enemies will trip over themselves to offer tribute.
It's hypocritical- but worse than that, it shows that they see the whole thing as a bit of a game where they're just trying to get one over on each other.
I'm not bothered with party politics, I'm ideologically opposed to conservatism because in my view it's an outdated philosophy from an era when class was considered a valid way of judging people, and being utterly against Thatcherism I would feel hypocritical now if I made a false show of respect for someone in death that I could never feel while she was alive.
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Normally I would concur the idea that history was written by the victors. However, as last night wore on I was surprised that, as the establishment began to roll out it's version of the Thatcher history and legacy, it was met with a growing wall of resistance. From the Cameron "Saviour of our nation" to the growing numbers of commentators focusing upon the divisiveness of her tenure and policies. It will not be easy for this establishment to cement their version of events as 'history'.

saint and I agree fully upon the philosophical reasons for our opposition to Thatcherism and our evaluation of the damage that it has done. I have always been a Socialist, I am convinced that the wellbeing of society is intrinsically linked with a state dedicated to the aspirations of opportunity for all its people within a mixed economy. Therefore there is no way that I can condone a leader who implements raw market policies upon the people within a fraudulent economic monetarist policy. The effects of that fraud are still with us and will affect us all for decades to come.

It is therefore essential that the establishment re-writing of history is always confronted with facts to disprove its assertions. Neither should we allow the commentators to change history. Today, the media will point to the Miners Strike as the hallmark of Thatchers attack upon the unions and the left in general. Let us not forget that the Miners Strike came at the end of the attack upon upon British industry in general. Hence the split in the ranks of the Left at the time of their strike. I can remember long arguments with miners at the start of the strike when they demanded support along the lines of "where were you when our factories were being closed, the equipment exported and the roofs ripped off?"

So vigilence and firm opposition but only on the basis of fact and truth - even if it hurts.
 
Foredeckdave said:
Normally I would concur the idea that history was written by the victors. However, as last night wore on I was surprised that, as the establishment began to roll out it's version of the Thatcher history and legacy, it was met with a growing wall of resistance. From the Cameron "Saviour of our nation" to the growing numbers of commentators focusing upon the divisiveness of her tenure and policies. It will not be easy for this establishment to cement their version of events as 'history'.

saint and I agree fully upon the philosophical reasons for our opposition to Thatcherism and our evaluation of the damage that it has done. I have always been a Socialist, I am convinced that the wellbeing of society is intrinsically linked with a state dedicated to the aspirations of opportunity for all its people within a mixed economy. Therefore there is no way that I can condone a leader who implements raw market policies upon the people within a fraudulent economic monetarist policy. The effects of that fraud are still with us and will affect us all for decades to come.

It is therefore essential that the establishment re-writing of history is always confronted with facts to disprove its assertions. Neither should we allow the commentators to change history. Today, the media will point to the Miners Strike as the hallmark of Thatchers attack upon the unions and the left in general. Let us not forget that the Miners Strike came at the end of the attack upon upon British industry in general. Hence the split in the ranks of the Left at the time of their strike. I can remember long arguments with miners at the start of the strike when they demanded support along the lines of "where were you when our factories were being closed, the equipment exported and the roofs ripped off?"

So vigilence and firm opposition but only on the basis of fact and truth - even if it hurts.
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Little unfair to leave me out of that dave. I was there too <ok>
 
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