Thatcher dead!

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DaiswanHuwsmate said:
So a country invades a territory not theirs,


That jagger is your problem....the both countries believe the Falklands are theirs and they have a case......They see us as invaders and they believe that strongly. So in their eyes they were doing nothing wrong......we were the aggressors.
We did not need to send a task force out there so quickly as the Argentinians were not killing anyone on the island and all they were doing was claiming back what they see is their island.......I dont know who is the real owners of the Falklands but it does not warrant a bloodshed for it. Thatcher used the situation for her own gratification and instead of getting around the table and debating the situation she sent a poor equipped task force and aggressively took it back not caring who would get killed. I was there i know the island is a worthless bit of land thats costs us billions of pounds to keep....its a **** hole of a place......She ignored any advice by the commanders out there. She murdered hundreds of argentinians on a ship that was not going to the Falklands and admiral sandy Woodward made sure she had the facts that the belgrano was outside the zone and heading back to Argentina.
This was a blow for someone like her as it ruined her plans and she ordered the sinking anyway and that was a crime....
Up until then there was no bloodshed and it could have stayed that way if she had listened to her advisers.....talks were the answer not bloodshed and she and she alone caused the deaths of many service personnel on both sides....people dont forget and like marbon said she dont deserve any military finally and she should have a quiet private sendoff.....mark my words this funeral wont go as smoothly as the government thinks it will and there is no need for it.

EVEN IN DEATH SHE CAUSES UNNESSESSARY MAYHEM
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Dai they tried diplomacy but the junta wanted something that is not theirs, like all dictators all they know is taking by force. They invaded they were the ones who started it all, to say she murdered people is fundamentally wrong, otherwise for every conflict the people would be murderers, Bosnia, Ireland, Iraq (twice) , Afghanistan and every conflict that has happened. So Tony Blair, John Major, Cameron would be guilty. Your problem is you don't like thatcher, and are blaming her for a war somebody else started then she finished.
 
DaiswanHuwsmate said:
Argentina's politics has nothing to do with us just like ours has nothing to do with them. We cant tell them how to run their country so everything you said dragon is irrelevant.
the issue is the Falklands and the Falklands only. we say its ours and they say its theirs,
Are you serious when you say thatcher had the right to sink a ship outside the exclusion zone WE set up that was in international waters heading home and knew it was full of service personnel...what right did she have? she murdered them people in cold blood for no reason than to boost her ego....she was advised by the highest British commander not to do it......she acted no better than the 9/11 7/7 terrorists did...she killed innocent people who had no chance......so dont come all this junta rubbish it has nothing to do with us how they run their country.....plenty of welsh people live there. its all about the island and who owns the sovereignty, she should have sat down and talked and if she had done that like many of her advisers wanted her to do many lives would have been saved.....she was out of order and a war criminal...
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Funny how Admiral Lewin asked for the ship to be sunk, he was the highest military person, so it sort of goes against what you are saying Dai

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano#section_2
 
mustyfrog said:
when is her funeral, after that i think its time to close this thread
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You'll know Musty, when you see all hell breaking in loose in London.

Next Wednesday mate, at the tune of £8-£10million quid, curtsey of the tax payer <ok>
 
DaiswanHuwsmate said:
So a country invades a territory not theirs,


That jagger is your problem....the both countries believe the Falklands are theirs and they have a case......They see us as invaders and they believe that strongly. So in their eyes they were doing nothing wrong......we were the aggressors.
We did not need to send a task force out there so quickly as the Argentinians were not killing anyone on the island and all they were doing was claiming back what they see is their island.......I dont know who is the real owners of the Falklands but it does not warrant a bloodshed for it. Thatcher used the situation for her own gratification and instead of getting around the table and debating the situation she sent a poor equipped task force and aggressively took it back not caring who would get killed. I was there i know the island is a worthless bit of land thats costs us billions of pounds to keep....its a **** hole of a place......She ignored any advice by the commanders out there. She murdered hundreds of argentinians on a ship that was not going to the Falklands and admiral sandy Woodward made sure she had the facts that the belgrano was outside the zone and heading back to Argentina.
This was a blow for someone like her as it ruined her plans and she ordered the sinking anyway and that was a crime....
Up until then there was no bloodshed and it could have stayed that way if she had listened to her advisers.....talks were the answer not bloodshed and she and she alone caused the deaths of many service personnel on both sides....people dont forget and like marbon said she dont deserve any military finally and she should have a quiet private sendoff.....mark my words this funeral wont go as smoothly as the government thinks it will and there is no need for it.

EVEN IN DEATH SHE CAUSES UNNESSESSARY MAYHEM
Click to expand...

Argentina has no claim to the islands. They were uninhabited when the SPANISH got there, and the Spanish did not hand it over to the Argentines upon independence. They abandoned the islands and left them unclaimed, that is where the UK claimed them. Now with the inhabitants wanting to remain British it would a dictatorship should Argentina want to take control, and that is a direct contravention of UN rules.

Argentina is not getting the Falklands.
 
First time ever I've been confused with Dragon. Get a grip Dai. <laugh>

My take on the Falklands is that they are an unfortunate by-product of having an empire. We colonised lots of places around the world because that was how we built an empire. Little thought was given to indiginous peoples (as Project says there weren't any really in the Falklands), then wealth was created and taken from those countries. We were pretty much top of the tree, even though we did some distasteful things.

Reminds me of "What have the Romans ever done for us?" from Life of Brian because we did a whole lot of good too. India has been stuck in a time warp since we left and is a country of beggars with a tiny - and recent - group of billionaires. Their infrastructure has pretty much remained as we left it. Look at the mess in Africa since we agreed to independence to various countries there. The same happened to the French and Portugese when they pulled out.

Nobody is suggesting that the U.S is handed back en masse to the American Indians, and likewise the Aborigines in Australia. What would happen to the generations of people who have lived there over the years? There may be right and wrongs in our colonisation of far-flung places. Times were different then. But we are where we are and you can't just hand over control of a territory to another country (or acquiesce to an invasion by a vicious junta that murdered its own people) when 98% of the population who live there don't want it.

The second that Galtieri planted his soldiers' feet on the Falklands he was the aggressor - and was doomed because he completely underestimated Thatcher's resolve. Regardless of whether you liked or hated Thatcher to suggest the whole thing was in some way manufactured by her must be a joke.
 
Mabon weve got Nottingham Forest tomorrow - should be fun.

Sad really that anyone from a working class community can try and justify Thatcher destroying communities and leaving thousands and thousands without work.

Relying on food parcels and unable to buy clothes for their children , faced with losing their homes.

I drive around S Wales in my job. Even now the signs are there of the destruction she caused. Boarded up shops and pubs and areas relying on benefits when they should have work. The Valley areas developed from work from indusry. That industry was taken away by Thatcher.

Very very sad when someone from our own area trys to justify the destruction using profit for what for thousands their way of living destroyed.

Thatcher would be delighted with the im all right attitude shown.
 
The problem with that hilts is that a lot of shops have closed in this recession not the last one or the one before. The reason why we are in recession is not just what a succession of governments have done, or not done. But has occurred worldwide.

Thatcher was responsible for a lot of things, good and bad, the same for Cameron and Blair , blame them for their actions, they have has a chance to make their mark, but have failed and are failing miserably.

For me when the mines went, it had a huge effect on the community I grew up in, I looked at it and thought I'd do something I could travel in , that I did for almost 20 years, I wouldn't accept staying put, I went to other areas and other countries and enjoyed myself.

I'm not one that accepts that nobody could do something for almost 3 decades, and that thatcher has prevented people getting jobs in all those years, if you can't work because medically you can't that is fine, if you can't work because you are to lazy to get off your arse, then you deserve nothing.

I have worked without any need to have benefits, I have retrained at my own expense to do other jobs, I have again retrained to do my job better, and have spent the last 5 months getting the correct training, I start another one on Monday, that will last another few months and I have 2 others after.

So sorry if I don't subscribe to the excuses even now after 30 years that its still her fault, I'm from a mining village I got off my arse and did something.
 
Not regurgitating arguments that have already been done on this thread Hilts, but South Wales was not Thatcher's victim. It was the victim of being the cradle of state-run heavy industry which had its day. 12,000 people worked at Port Talbot. Now it's much much lower yet they are more efficient and actually produce a lot more steel. Admittedly this is partly through improved tech. South Wales was awash with publicly owned, gigantic, failing businesses that were over-manned and where the Unions that effectively ran them had too much power. That was the problem. Thatcher was the cure, and there were bound to be casualties, unfortunately. Thatcher's main problem, I think, was an apparent lack of empathy with those who suffered - and I acknowledge there were many. The industrialised areas of the U.K were in many ways the victims of their own success.

I know others disagree and that's their right. Good luck v Forest. Only a matter of time to promotion. <ok>
 
Jager said:
Funny how Admiral Lewin asked for the ship to be sunk, he was the highest military person, so it sort of goes against what you are saying Dai

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano#section_2
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I know as a matter of fact that Admiral Sandy Woodward who was the Admiral of the Fleet was the highest commanding officer there, He sailed on HMS Hermes and before we reached the Falklands he Visited every single war ship sailing there on passage.....wikipedia can be added to by anyone so you cant take anything as 100% fact......


sorry dragon for putting your name instead of kangaroo's..<ok>

good post hilts, people have short memories and still argue when people from these communities still say they are suffering......She was a control freak and was a dangerous person....
 
name me a PM who isnt/wasnt a control freak Dai, over here we have had Keating, Howard, Rudd, Gillard to name a few in recent years who (bar Keating) just want to be USA best buddies, only Keating saw the opportunity China is for our growth. cannot really comment on Thatcher, only from what i read in the papers over the years but reading several threads on a few boards i am surprised at the animosity, had no idea she was that hated.

PS for Dai, when I was in Malaysia in 83 i think, HMS Ambuscade was in port and a few of us went for a visit, welcomed with open arms, have a jumper with "HMSC Ambuscade, a map of the Falklands and underneath Falkland Islands 1982"
 
ValleyGraduate12 said:
You'll know Musty, when you see all hell breaking in loose in London.

Next Wednesday mate, at the tune of £8-£10million quid, curtsey of the tax payer <ok>
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And that figure is only the first estimate of the cost. As with all Government funded things, the costs go on increasing as the days go by.

It would have been a lot cheaper and easier just to burn her in the back garden and quicker, and Mark could have joined her as well. I am the god of hellfire, and I bring you........
 
MabonJack said:
i think wednesday 17th April should now be made a national holiday,
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Not for MP`s surely? they have enough holidays now as it is. I mean they have more holidays than they are actually in work, and I use that term "work" very loosely indeed.
 
according to our Foreign Minister Bob Carr (who is married to a Malaysian) she once made a comment to him (with his wife in earshot), that us Aussies must watch out for the Asian invasion of people and must curb our immigration policy to prevent us turning Asian.
 
Thatcher was the worst enemy Britain has ever faced, not least because she triumphed: she deregulated insanely greed, immoral banks leading to failure after failure, she obliterated sustainable industry and unions so that the common man would be forced to dance to the tune of despicable corporations. She warped the way this country works so that only vile neoliberal individuals can get into positions of power. She broke Britain as a civilised society. The appalling sycophancy of the ultra-right has been entirely counter-democratic - demanding silence from Thatcher's innumerable victims under the feeble pretense of respecting the dead when they laughingly applauded the death of Chavez just a few weeks ago. It is a show of the awful depths which her ideology pushed this nation to that not only did she and her successors (especially Blair and Cameron) drive us to this place but that people feel like they can defend it.
 
Jager said:
Personally Mabon I find that a bit sick, you may not have liked her, but it doesn't mean others didn't
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i hated the bitch, and still do now Jager what i saw that old cow do in the name of british democracy made me ashamed to be british which is still the case today there are millions in this country who will be celebrating the demise of the wicked witch next wednesday, i hope she rots in hell because that is where she deserves to go.
 
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