You know the broken cog but stand by it in your argument. That doesn't make sense. She had constituency majority, not vote majority.
Thatcher dead!
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You know the broken cog but stand by it in your argument. That doesn't make sense. She had constituency majority, not vote majority.
Hmmm was that 'Back To Basics' Victorian Values John Major? .... "you can stand up and pop your knicks back on now Edwina, I've finished" ... I really don't give a toss what they do ... I just despise their hypocrisy
Strange that these communists have never got in power given their considerable influence
Strange that these communists have never got in power given their considerable influence
Then you don't understand who runs this country, who politicians are really working for, or why there is such an unequal distribution of wealth and rights in this country. Perhaps you need to find these things out before slamming trade unions.
Equally you should understand who ran this country in the 70s , and why thatcher broke up the unions because they were not elected by anyone. The trade unions are in it for themselves, they do very little in reality. They are slammed because they deserve to be, they are full of people who think they should have everything without merit.
I dislike the unions as much or more than politicians, they are of the same mould and are utterly useless, I can't see one positive from either at the moment. The difference with politicians we can vote them out or in, the unions you can't do nothing about beyond just laughing at them and their antics !
Hmmm was that 'Back To Basics' Victorian Values John Major? .... "you can stand up and pop your knicks back on now Edwina, I've finished" ... I really don't give a toss what they do ... I just despise their hypocrisy
Strange that these communists have never got in power given their considerable influence
Obviously you weren't around in the 70s when they ran everything through the back door, they had their objectives, one to have power without being elected, and to listen to their paymasters the communists.
Can't everyone just move on..... please. I have never voted Tory I spent the first 13 years of my working life in a Tinplate plant that Maggie cut in half. given the climate I looked elsewhere for work - hence Canada. I have been a union rep and spent more time fighting those lazy buggers who thought it was my job to protect them than I did fighting the unions. But to blame one person for the ails of a country is ludicrous - The recession in the States was caused by greedy Banks AND greedy people who knew they couldn't afford to buy a house yet went right ahead and bought one - with the evil banker rubbing their hands. I KNOW first hand the inappropriate actions of Trdae Unions I KNOW firsthand what Maggies policies did and I KNOW each had it's part to play in what transpired. As I said - can't we move on............. please
oops - should have been ' fighting the company' getting too excited....... which if you know the Canadian psyche is quite funny!
Lumberjack - the thread is about Thatcher. I suspect it'll move on eventually.
Yes, conspiracy theorists everywhere, PGF.
I stand by my argument because frankly I've seen little to contradict it other than the usual left wing bull**** rhetoric here and in the media. This view is usually put forward by Labour supporters. You know, those guys who were in power for longer than Thatcher but did nothing to repeal any of her governments' laws. Those guys. The same guys who so mishandled the economy not only recently (am I the only one who wants to slap the hypocritical Ed Balls in the face?) but in the 70's that allowed the Unions too much power so that they crippled the country. Thatcher would never have come to power if that hadn't happened. She was almost created by Labour just as she created Blair.
Ultimately, I blame the welfare system for the ills of this country, not Thatcher. I agree with the idea as postulated by the post war Labour Government led by the superb Clement Atlee but over successive generations The Labour Party has fed the welfare system until it's not the safety net it was meant to be but it's now created a sub-class who won't work because it they are either too idle or because it doesn't pay. Thankfully, that offensive mess is now being sorted out by a government who yet again have been left a pile of **** to clean up.
But the welfare mentality has created a society whereby (to quote Kennedy) many people ask not what they can do for themselves or their country but what the country can do for them. Coming from a working class background myself I've seen this in action. I personally know a woman who has won international competitions in cake-icing. Her work is frankly breathtaking. Does she get a job? No. Why? Because the poor dear gets 'vertigo' and has been getting paid more money in disability allowance and rent for her council house than if she worked. It's madness. She's rightly just lost her appeal and will hopefully get off her ass and put her talent to use.
As for this preposterous phrase 'unequal distribution of wealth' that just means there are rich people and there are poor people. Was the same in Roman times and it's the same now. It will always be so. If it's so unfair perhaps you should donate 25% of your income to a food bank or to your unemployed neighbour. No, thought not.
Bitching about the rich is just the politics of envy. Wealthy people tend to create wealth by employing people, remember. I suppose many of you would go back to the days when a high level of savings drew down a 98% tax rate. Thatcher changed that, and it was never repealed. Richer people should and do pay higher tax but if you cripple the rich with ridiculous tax rates that we saw in the 70's there is no incentive to create wealth or jobs.
But I come back to my main point. You'll never change my mind about politics and I won't change yours. That's fine. But dancing a jig over an 87 year old Alzheimer sufferer's death is tasteless and pathetic, I don't care what colour your politics are.
Yes, conspiracy theorists everywhere, PGF.
I stand by my argument because frankly I've seen little to contradict it other than the usual left wing bull**** rhetoric here and in the media. This view is usually put forward by Labour supporters. You know, those guys who were in power for longer than Thatcher but did nothing to repeal any of her governments' laws. Those guys. The same guys who so mishandled the economy not only recently (am I the only one who wants to slap the hypocritical Ed Balls in the face?) but in the 70's that allowed the Unions too much power so that they crippled the country. Thatcher would never have come to power if that hadn't happened. She was almost created by Labour just as she created Blair.
Ultimately, I blame the welfare system for the ills of this country, not Thatcher. I agree with the idea as postulated by the post war Labour Government led by the superb Clement Atlee but over successive generations The Labour Party has fed the welfare system until it's not the safety net it was meant to be but it's now created a sub-class who won't work because it they are either too idle or because it doesn't pay. Thankfully, that offensive mess is now being sorted out by a government who yet again have been left a pile of **** to clean up.
But the welfare mentality has created a society whereby (to quote Kennedy) many people ask not what they can do for themselves or their country but what the country can do for them. Coming from a working class background myself I've seen this in action. I personally know a woman who has won international competitions in cake-icing. Her work is frankly breathtaking. Does she get a job? No. Why? Because the poor dear gets 'vertigo' and has been getting paid more money in disability allowance and rent for her council house than if she worked. It's madness. She's rightly just lost her appeal and will hopefully get off her ass and put her talent to use.
As for this preposterous phrase 'unequal distribution of wealth' that just means there are rich people and there are poor people. Was the same in Roman times and it's the same now. It will always be so. If it's so unfair perhaps you should donate 25% of your income to a food bank or to your unemployed neighbour. No, thought not.
Bitching about the rich is just the politics of envy. Wealthy people tend to create wealth by employing people, remember. I suppose many of you would go back to the days when a high level of savings drew down a 98% tax rate. Thatcher changed that, and it was never repealed. Richer people should and do pay higher tax but if you cripple the rich with ridiculous tax rates that we saw in the 70's there is no incentive to create wealth or jobs.
But I come back to my main point. You'll never change my mind about politics and I won't change yours. That's fine. But dancing a jig over an 87 year old Alzheimer sufferer's death is tasteless and pathetic, I don't care what colour your politics are.
If there was ever anything like that, it would have been at the behest of people with a vested interest, if the unions had an interest it would have happened. Still they didn't need to do anything as maggie came into power in 79 and started doing what she did.
If Kinnock did win the elections though, do you think he would have bent over for the unions like Heath and Wilson? Or do you think he would have named Scargill as deputy pm ? People criticise maggie but look what the alternative was
Lumberjack - the thread is about Thatcher. I suspect it'll move on eventually.
Yes, conspiracy theorists everywhere, PGF.
I stand by my argument because frankly I've seen little to contradict it other than the usual left wing bull**** rhetoric here and in the media. This view is usually put forward by Labour supporters. You know, those guys who were in power for longer than Thatcher but did nothing to repeal any of her governments' laws. Those guys. The same guys who so mishandled the economy not only recently (am I the only one who wants to slap the hypocritical Ed Balls in the face?) but in the 70's that allowed the Unions too much power so that they crippled the country. Thatcher would never have come to power if that hadn't happened. She was almost created by Labour just as she created Blair.
Ultimately, I blame the welfare system for the ills of this country, not Thatcher. I agree with the idea as postulated by the post war Labour Government led by the superb Clement Atlee but over successive generations The Labour Party has fed the welfare system until it's not the safety net it was meant to be but it's now created a sub-class who won't work because it they are either too idle or because it doesn't pay. Thankfully, that offensive mess is now being sorted out by a government who yet again have been left a pile of **** to clean up.
But the welfare mentality has created a society whereby (to quote Kennedy) many people ask not what they can do for themselves or their country but what the country can do for them. Coming from a working class background myself I've seen this in action. I personally know a woman who has won international competitions in cake-icing. Her work is frankly breathtaking. Does she get a job? No. Why? Because the poor dear gets 'vertigo' and has been getting paid more money in disability allowance and rent for her council house than if she worked. It's madness. She's rightly just lost her appeal and will hopefully get off her ass and put her talent to use.
As for this preposterous phrase 'unequal distribution of wealth' that just means there are rich people and there are poor people. Was the same in Roman times and it's the same now. It will always be so. If it's so unfair perhaps you should donate 25% of your income to a food bank or to your unemployed neighbour. No, thought not.
Bitching about the rich is just the politics of envy. Wealthy people tend to create wealth by employing people, remember. I suppose many of you would go back to the days when a high level of savings drew down a 98% tax rate. Thatcher changed that, and it was never repealed. Richer people should and do pay higher tax but if you cripple the rich with ridiculous tax rates that we saw in the 70's there is no incentive to create wealth or jobs.
But I come back to my main point. You'll never change my mind about politics and I won't change yours. That's fine. But dancing a jig over an 87 year old Alzheimer sufferer's death is tasteless and pathetic, I don't care what colour your politics are.
You have repeated several times your point about people dancing a jig over an 87 year old Alzheimer sufferer's death and I don't see anyone currently doing that on this thread.
Just as you outline the excesses of the welfare state perhaps you would be prepared to outline the excesses of Daves cronies and the banking system and also explain why the multi-national companies are failing to pay billions in taxes and are allowed to get away with it (If you say it is the same under Conservative and Labour without giving a valid explanation I will be disappointed
)
I have already explained why no government has repealed two of the laws, but if you choose to ignore it then that is your prerogative but it is cheap to keep saying nobody repealed them because the Conservatives haven't done it neither. In fact, it was the Conservatives who stood alone in the western world and last year said no to changing those two laws back to what they should be.
I shall explain again though:
Thatcher and Reagan together dismantled a law that prevented banks in the investment and retail sectors from accessing people savings to fund their own acquisitions and to give people and companies loans. The entire system relied on people to never access their own savings which by law they would be entitled. When people did access their savings, the back had to give that money to them... but it was already used and given to others. The banks are then in debt because they spent money that they didn't have, they used everybody else's.
The other law required banks to ensure beyond reasonable doubt that those who wanted a loan or mortgage had to prove that they could afford the repayments, as well as all living costs and to be able to save money. This law was repealed so that the banks could stimulate the economy by moving money around and help both the United States and the United Kingdom make more money. It helped the UK in the immediate term but as we all know now the long term effect has been disastrous. But hey, quite a few experts told her it wouldn't work long term but Maggie being Maggie didn't care one bit.
Both of these laws were designed to directly stop the very recession we are in now. If she hadn't done this then these banks would not have given people cash that the bank didn't have. Because the US and UK did this, all other western nations followed suit because the banks in their nations threatened to move so they could enjoy the new deregulation rules offered elsewhere.
With these new rules, the UK was the only nation that intentionally drove up the value of the pound sterling to the benefit of the British financial industry. It killed off manufacturing and raw material sectors because we could no longer get other countries to afford our products. Other nations had far more intelligent leaders who tried to keep the value of their currencies low, so they could have secondary and tertiary industries to supplement their economies. With UK quickly having only one strong sector, the finance sector which was now allowed to loan out money it didn't have, we were stuck with it. Any notion of devaluing the pound sterling or putting those regulations back in place was met by threats that the banks would move to the already expanding China (they had their 7% annual growth since early 1990s), that would decimate the British economy with no other sector to take the slack. Canada was on of the few Western Nations that didn't repeal those laws preventing banks from handing out money like it was just paper, they were largely unaffected by this recession we are in.
Cameron was the only western leader to refuse those regulations being put back when the EU met up last year. America agreed to do it. The EU barring UK agreed to do it. The EEC agreed to do it. Japan agreed to do it. China said no because they knew they could get our banks that way. The other western nations are multi-sector economies, but Britain is deliberately uni-sector and that sector is now rotten.
Every single middle class, working class, middle-upper class, middle-class person in the entire western world is affected by this woman! They all have reason to dance on her grave! Her policies have massively helped bring the world economy to it's knee's.
Why wouldn't Dave do that?
Why indeed?
We would need a miracle product, some sort of raw material that only existed in the UK to get out of this lop sided economy we have here. Either that, or hope to high hell that there really is lots of oil down by the Falklands so that can take some of the slack and finally allow us to devalue the pound sterling and get our services and manufacturing sector up and running again. Until then we are at the mercy of Thatcher's dream and her financial sector wonderland.
Here is hoping that Falklands really does have all that oil around it.
"You have repeated several times your point about people dancing a jig over an 87 year old Alzheimer sufferer's death and I don't see anyone currently doing that on this thread."
Then you haven't read it from the start. Try again.
Going around in circles on politics , guys. I respect your opinions even if I disagree with them.
Interesting that Milliband's speech just now in Parliament was more glowing than Cameron's.
Then you haven't read it from the start. Try again.
Going around in circles on politics , guys. I respect your opinions even if I disagree with them.
Interesting that Milliband's speech just now in Parliament was more glowing than Cameron's.
So by your twisted logic then, everything bad that has happened around the world is thatchers fault We have had successive governments here and around the world that have failed and succeeded at many things , but its okay lets blame thatcher for everything.
Yes she made mistakes like the poll tax, but she had successes as well like breaking the union stranglehold of the country, helped end the Cold War, and gave people the right to buy. For me she made mistakes like every ****ing politician on earth, but blaming all the worlds ills on her doorstep decades after she left power is really clutching at straws!
Can you think of other things to blame her for ? Maybe the horsemeat scandal, or the price of petrol, or the measles epidemic in Swansea ? You might as well pile it on now she is not here.
We have had successive governments here and around the world that have failed and succeeded at many things , but its okay lets blame thatcher for everything.Yes she made mistakes like the poll tax, but she had successes as well like breaking the union stranglehold of the country, helped end the Cold War, and gave people the right to buy. For me she made mistakes like every ****ing politician on earth, but blaming all the worlds ills on her doorstep decades after she left power is really clutching at straws!
Can you think of other things to blame her for ? Maybe the horsemeat scandal, or the price of petrol, or the measles epidemic in Swansea ? You might as well pile it on now she is not here.
So by your twisted logic then, everything bad that has happened around the world is thatchers fault
Yes she made mistakes like the poll tax, but she had successes as well like breaking the union stranglehold of the country, helped end the Cold War, and gave people the right to buy. For me she made mistakes like every ****ing politician on earth, but blaming all the worlds ills on her doorstep decades after she left power is really clutching at straws!
Can you think of other things to blame her for ? Maybe the horsemeat scandal, or the price of petrol, or the measles epidemic in Swansea ? You might as well pile it on now she is not here.
I haven't blamed all the world's ill's on her, you just jumped to that yourself.
I said that what she allowed the banks to do, and allowing the UK to become so dependent on them, is the bad thing she did. It goes way beyond the miners issue of the time, which is why I feel a little angry when they always refer to that when discussing her legacy. In America Regan is rightly seen as a bad president for numerous things including his part in the banking deregulation, here on the other hand the majority conservative newspapers ignore that she was actually photographed sitting alongside the man whilst signing on the dotted line.
She is not responsibility of all the world's problems, she is responsible for the big issue we have right now though. Behind the scenes, it wouldn't surprise if Cameron deeply resents the woman for the state of the country right now but lets be honest, he cannot exactly come out and say that. He has an impossible task ahead of him, much like anyone else who would be in the front seat.
"You have repeated several times your point about people dancing a jig over an 87 year old Alzheimer sufferer's death and I don't see anyone currently doing that on this thread."
Then you haven't read it from the start. Try again.
Going around in circles on politics , guys. I respect your opinions even if I disagree with them.
Interesting that Milliband's speech just now in Parliament was more glowing than Cameron's.
I did read it. I said CURRENTLY on this thread.
Milliband? Do you think he represents the working class? It wouldn't make an iota of difference if he was PM. Didn't form part of the discussion, so I don't know what your point is.
Damn peasants revolting, they should know their place the smelly bastards. Get back to the fields you peasants and remember "We're all in this together".
Fancy a champers Georgie?