That was utter ****e

[marcusblackcat]

Lee cattermole had a top game LOL I stop reading after that. JUST SACK THE IRISH PLANK NOW BECAUSE HE'S PLAN B IS TO TAKE A FORWARD OFF AND THEN PUT A MIDFIELD ON.

Idiot!! Catts was excellent last night - if you think anything else then you know nothing about football (that or you weren't there or were watching a very poor stream - for a home game!) !! The only player we had who found a red and white shirt goiig forward!

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Ok First of all let's get something very clear, you shouldn't even be speaking of sacking your manager, I know this only applies to a few of you so I guess I'm addressing them. With all due respect, you're not getting a Mourinho or a Hiddink in to manage your side any time soon so you can stop hoping some miracle worker is going to come in and save the day, Martin O'Neill is possibly the best manager you've had or are going to have for a long time. He's proven himself in this league with two sides before coming to Sunderland, taking one of them on regular trips around Europe, the guy knows what he is doing.

You can't just change the manager every time you need a morale boost to your players, you get through the rough patches and you come out of the other end much stronger.

At a guess I'd say you've got some bad blood in the dressing room, amongst some of your players. I'd point the finger at James McClean first and foremost, then Larsson. I'd guess that the acquisition of Johnson has upset either one or both of them. McClean's antics for his country suggest he thinks he's a lot better than he is, and it's pathetic, the little nugget needs a reality check because I've no idea where his ego has come from, compare his work rate and attitude to Sterling at Liverpool to see my point. Until O'Neill has access to other options in place of these two I'd assume he has to stick with them. I really can't see any other problems in your team as they all seem like top guys, especially O'Shea and Brow but I will say, Kieran Richardson was a ready made solution for a problem like McClean.

 

[concrete tony]

Roy Keane walked! At no point was he sacked.

 

[Billy Death]

Ok First of all let's get something very clear, you shouldn't even be speaking of sacking your manager, I know this only applies to a few of you so I guess I'm addressing them. With all due respect, you're not getting a Mourinho or a Hiddink in to manage your side any time soon so you can stop hoping some miracle worker is going to come in and save the day, Martin O'Neill is possibly the best manager you've had or are going to have for a long time. He's proven himself in this league with two sides before coming to Sunderland, taking one of them on regular trips around Europe, the guy knows what he is doing.

You can't just change the manager every time you need a morale boost to your players, you get through the rough patches and you come out of the other end much stronger.

At a guess I'd say you've got some bad blood in the dressing room, amongst some of your players. I'd point the finger at James McClean first and foremost, then Larsson. I'd guess that the acquisition of Johnson has upset either one or both of them. McClean's antics for his country suggest he thinks he's a lot better than he is, and it's pathetic, the little nugget needs a reality check because I've no idea where his ego has come from, compare his work rate and attitude to Sterling at Liverpool to see my point. Until O'Neill has access to other options in place of these two I'd assume he has to stick with them. I really can't see any other problems in your team as they all seem like top guys, especially O'Shea and Brow but I will say, Kieran Richardson was a ready made solution for a problem like McClean.

Really?

How many time have you seen us this season then?

He hasn't a clue & neither do you.

I hope he proves me wrong, I really do but I fear I've more chance of shagging Katie Middleton.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Billy what's your answer then if I don't have a clue?

Should you sack him and get 'Arry in? He was on Sky Sports News last night practically begging a team to give him a job. He's a cockney wideboy though and will require a helicopter to ferry him back and forth from home every day of the week. If only you could attract a top manager with winning pedigree and European experience that was a Sunderland fan. Why not go all out and try and get Pep or Hiddink because Pep's unemployed and Hiddink is manager at a very unstable club, they'll get the best out of your crop of players wont they? In fact, since we're shooting for the stars, why not get on the phone to Fergie and see if he's ready for a new challenge, he's surely getting bored of managing the same team after 26 years.

The fact of the matter is, you have a top manager who has passion for your club. He hasn't got a bottomless pit of money like Mancini has got so your fortunes aren't going to turn overnight. I've gone into the new manager effect previously on this forum where O'Neill was concerned but that never lasts forever. You could have had Hughes, he's had about £60m thrown at him since joining QPR, do you want me to show you the league table?

Nobody likes to see their team going through a rough patch, or losing to lower league opposition but it happens to all of us, especially in the league cup. Whelan isn't going to sack Martinez and Wigan just lost to Bradford. There isn't anything to worry about where relegation is concerned, you're not leaking goals left, right and centre so you have to give O'Neill credit for assembling one of the tightest defences in this league.

Of course I know nothing at all though, I'm not qualified to pass judgement so I guess I should what? go and eat your smegma? Muppet

 

[Billy Death]

Billy what's your answer then if I don't have a clue?

Should you sack him and get 'Arry in? He was on Sky Sports News last night practically begging a team to give him a job. He's a cockney wideboy though and will require a helicopter to ferry him back and forth from home every day of the week. If only you could attract a top manager with winning pedigree and European experience that was a Sunderland fan. Why not go all out and try and get Pep or Hiddink because Pep's unemployed and Hiddink is manager at a very unstable club, they'll get the best out of your crop of players wont they? In fact, since we're shooting for the stars, why not get on the phone to Fergie and see if he's ready for a new challenge, he's surely getting bored of managing the same team after 26 years.

The fact of the matter is, you have a top manager who has passion for your club. He hasn't got a bottomless pit of money like Mancini has got so your fortunes aren't going to turn overnight. I've gone into the new manager effect previously on this forum where O'Neill was concerned but that never lasts forever. You could have had Hughes, he's had about £60m thrown at him since joining QPR, do you want me to show you the league table?

Nobody likes to see their team going through a rough patch, or losing to lower league opposition but it happens to all of us, especially in the league cup. Whelan isn't going to sack Martinez and Wigan just lost to Bradford. There isn't anything to worry about where relegation is concerned, you're not leaking goals left, right and centre so you have to give O'Neill credit for assembling one of the tightest defences in this league.

Of course I know nothing at all though, I'm not qualified to pass judgement so I guess I should what? go and eat your smegma? Muppet

You've got the wrong end of the stick there mate.

I didn't mean you know nowt about football, I meant you know nowt about how we've played this season.
And no, I'm not attempting to shoot for the stars either but we are not even making an attempt to win games.

Defeat I can take, lack of trying I can't. I've put up with almost 40 years of abject garbage apart from two seasons.

Sorry you picked me up wrong.

On the subject of the muppets, they're more entertaining, .

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Billy, ok misunderstanding my bad. Hold the sauce.

From my point of view, you're in safe hands. With almost every manager comes a transitional period though and the results you lot picked up when he first came aboard although they saved your skin they've set you fans up for a big fall. You just have to give this guy time, he'll make sure you don't go near a relegation scrap and over time he'll deliver the goods. I'm not saying he's going to bring in a haul of trophies but the guy sets his teams up for attacking and free flowing football. He'll get that out of Sunderland eventually but he can't do it overnight given how much dosh Bruce squandered.

If O'Neill doesn't get his house in order, he will at least leave your next manager with a decent squad to inherit. He seems to do well in the transfer markets, but he correctly identified your defence as the most important aspect to address first because if you stop conceding lots of goals you'll generally be comfortable in this league, look at WBA this season. His next move surely has to be to address the supply line and the striker deparment, it's not his fault that Darren Bent and Gyan were c*nts, he didn't buy Wickham either but he's been left to clean up the mess.

If you have to go through one really boring and pathetic season in terms of entertaining football, to get 5/6 great seasons to follow then that's a good deal. If he can leave a legacy behind that you lot never forget then surely one bad season isn't too hard to stomach considering how many you've already lived through?

To lighten the mood in here, anybody who uses twitter search the hashtag #TIYFT it will certainly put a smile on some of your faces.

 

[Billy Death]

Billy, ok misunderstanding my bad. Hold the sauce.

From my point of view, you're in safe hands. With almost every manager comes a transitional period though and the results you lot picked up when he first came aboard although they saved your skin they've set you fans up for a big fall. You just have to give this guy time, he'll make sure you don't go near a relegation scrap and over time he'll deliver the goods. I'm not saying he's going to bring in a haul of trophies but the guy sets his teams up for attacking and free flowing football. He'll get that out of Sunderland eventually but he can't do it overnight given how much dosh Bruce squandered.

If O'Neill doesn't get his house in order, he will at least leave your next manager with a decent squad to inherit. He seems to do well in the transfer markets, but he correctly identified your defence as the most important aspect to address first because if you stop conceding lots of goals you'll generally be comfortable in this league, look at WBA this season. His next move surely has to be to address the supply line and the striker deparment, it's not his fault that Darren Bent and Gyan were c*nts, he didn't buy Wickham either but he's been left to clean up the mess.

If you have to go through one really boring and pathetic season in terms of entertaining football, to get 5/6 great seasons to follow then that's a good deal. If he can leave a legacy behind that you lot never forget then surely one bad season isn't too hard to stomach considering how many you've already lived through?

To lighten the mood in here, anybody who uses twitter search the hashtag #TIYFT it will certainly put a smile on some of your faces.

Well, I would like to think you're right but I'm worried about going down tbh.

3 wins in 17 game, 2 against much lower league opposition speaks for itself marra.

 

[Nads]

3 in 19 I make it Billy, and I know I'm in a worried state when I am counting back games!

 

[Tel (they/them)]

I get what you're saying but you're not losing games which is the most important thing.

Look at the league table, only City have lost less games than you and your loss was against them away. A single goal, or a single win could seriously kick start you this season. I don't even think it's a confidence issue, it could be something as small as moving the ball around a bit quicker.

You have a game in hand at home vs a team that couldn't hold onto a 4-0 lead against a bunch of kids. A couple of wins puts you top half and you might not be able to see where the wins are coming from but surely a defeat to Boro at home will force O'Neill into making a change for your next fixture? Let's see what his reaction is.

 

[Billy Death]

3 in 19 I make it Billy, and I know I'm in a worried state when I am counting back games!

**** me purple, that's almost as bad as Mackemenemy & Wilko, let alone Bruce.

 

[Billy Death]

I get what you're saying but you're not losing games which is the most important thing.

Look at the league table, only City have lost less games than you and your loss was against them away. A single goal, or a single win could seriously kick start you this season. I don't even think it's a confidence issue, it could be something as small as moving the ball around a bit quicker.

You have a game in hand at home vs a team that couldn't hold onto a 4-0 lead against a bunch of kids. A couple of wins puts you top half and you might not be able to see where the wins are coming from but surely a defeat to Boro at home will force O'Neill into making a change for your next fixture? Let's see what his reaction is.

But we rarely venture past the halfway line marra, we'll win nowt playing like that.

 

[Nads]

I get what you're saying but you're not losing games which is the most important thing.

Look at the league table, only City have lost less games than you and your loss was against them away. A single goal, or a single win could seriously kick start you this season. I don't even think it's a confidence issue, it could be something as small as moving the ball around a bit quicker.

You have a game in hand at home vs a team that couldn't hold onto a 4-0 lead against a bunch of kids. A couple of wins puts you top half and you might not be able to see where the wins are coming from but surely a defeat to Boro at home will force O'Neill into making a change for your next fixture? Let's see what his reaction is.

Terry, think about what you are saying mate, I know your a good poster and have a decent knowledge and balance to your posts.

'not losing is the most important thing'

38 draws is 38 points is relegation.

The important thing for us is not survival etc, it is growing the club.

We cannot grow the club, despite a £60million sponsorship, new sky deal and multi-billionaire owner that has backed the club to the hilt, if fans are being driven away by dire performances and no wins.

We are getting a reputation nationwide now as 'hard to beat, dull as ****'.

That will crucify our hopes of any global appeal, utterly smash us, and we will have to accept being perennial also-rans.

That's not enough for a team with a hardcore following of 35k, that could easily nudge 50k with even a hint of success.

 

[Deleted #]

Ok First of all let's get something very clear, you shouldn't even be speaking of sacking your manager, I know this only applies to a few of you so I guess I'm addressing them. With all due respect, you're not getting a Mourinho or a Hiddink in to manage your side any time soon so you can stop hoping some miracle worker is going to come in and save the day, Martin O'Neill is possibly the best manager you've had or are going to have for a long time. He's proven himself in this league with two sides before coming to Sunderland, taking one of them on regular trips around Europe, the guy knows what he is doing.

You can't just change the manager every time you need a morale boost to your players, you get through the rough patches and you come out of the other end much stronger.

At a guess I'd say you've got some bad blood in the dressing room, amongst some of your players. I'd point the finger at James McClean first and foremost, then Larsson. I'd guess that the acquisition of Johnson has upset either one or both of them. McClean's antics for his country suggest he thinks he's a lot better than he is, and it's pathetic, the little nugget needs a reality check because I've no idea where his ego has come from, compare his work rate and attitude to Sterling at Liverpool to see my point. Until O'Neill has access to other options in place of these two I'd assume he has to stick with them. I really can't see any other problems in your team as they all seem like top guys, especially O'Shea and Brow but I will say, Kieran Richardson was a ready made solution for a problem like McClean.

Nobody has mentioned these names and also the league table isn't decided by status of manager.

Why bring Larsson into this, WTF has he done? lol

Billy what's your answer then if I don't have a clue?

Should you sack him and get 'Arry in? He was on Sky Sports News last night practically begging a team to give him a job. He's a cockney wideboy though and will require a helicopter to ferry him back and forth from home every day of the week. If only you could attract a top manager with winning pedigree and European experience that was a Sunderland fan. Why not go all out and try and get Pep or Hiddink because Pep's unemployed and Hiddink is manager at a very unstable club, they'll get the best out of your crop of players wont they? In fact, since we're shooting for the stars, why not get on the phone to Fergie and see if he's ready for a new challenge, he's surely getting bored of managing the same team after 26 years.
The fact of the matter is, you have a top manager who has passion for your club. He hasn't got a bottomless pit of money like Mancini has got so your fortunes aren't going to turn overnight. I've gone into the new manager effect previously on this forum where O'Neill was concerned but that never lasts forever. You could have had Hughes, he's had about £60m thrown at him since joining QPR, do you want me to show you the league table?
Nobody likes to see their team going through a rough patch, or losing to lower league opposition but it happens to all of us, especially in the league cup. Whelan isn't going to sack Martinez and Wigan just lost to Bradford. There isn't anything to worry about where relegation is concerned, you're not leaking goals left, right and centre so you have to give O'Neill credit for assembling one of the tightest defences in this league.

Of course I know nothing at all though, I'm not qualified to pass judgement so I guess I should what? go and eat your smegma? Muppet

There you go, off again. Terry, have you taken into consideration just because O'Neill has been successful everywhere else that doesn't guarantee success? Have you taken into consideration the amount of time O'Neill has been out of the game? Have you taken into consideration O'Neill for the first time is without his number 2 John Robertson? Again Terry not a single person has asked for a world class manager so these statements are very unjustified and pointless really.

Actually Terry, we spent about 8-9m more than QPR in the summer. There's another fact put right for you

Billy, ok misunderstanding my bad. Hold the sauce.

From my point of view, you're in safe hands. With almost every manager comes a transitional period though and the results you lot picked up when he first came aboard although they saved your skin they've set you fans up for a big fall. You just have to give this guy time, he'll make sure you don't go near a relegation scrap and over time he'll deliver the goods. I'm not saying he's going to bring in a haul of trophies but the guy sets his teams up for attacking and free flowing football. He'll get that out of Sunderland eventually but he can't do it overnight given how much dosh Bruce squandered.

If O'Neill doesn't get his house in order, he will at least leave your next manager with a decent squad to inherit. He seems to do well in the transfer markets, but he correctly identified your defence as the most important aspect to address first because if you stop conceding lots of goals you'll generally be comfortable in this league, look at WBA this season. His next move surely has to be to address the supply line and the striker deparment, it's not his fault that Darren Bent and Gyan were c*nts, he didn't buy Wickham either but he's been left to clean up the mess. If you have to go through one really boring and pathetic season in terms of entertaining football, to get 5/6 great seasons to follow then that's a good deal. If he can leave a legacy behind that you lot never forget then surely one bad season isn't too hard to stomach considering how many you've already lived through?

To lighten the mood in here, anybody who uses twitter search the hashtag #TIYFT it will certainly put a smile on some of your faces.

Just like Bruce left him a really good squad to inherit?

No, Gyan and Bent had nothing to do with O'Neill, but Fletcher and Johnson have, he is also responsible for bringing McClean through as well.

I get what you're saying but you're not losing games which is the most important thing.

Look at the league table, only City have lost less games than you and your loss was against them away. A single goal, or a single win could seriously kick start you this season. I don't even think it's a confidence issue, it could be something as small as moving the ball around a bit quicker.

You have a game in hand at home vs a team that couldn't hold onto a 4-0 lead against a bunch of kids. A couple of wins puts you top half and you might not be able to see where the wins are coming from but surely a defeat to Boro at home will force O'Neill into making a change for your next fixture? Let's see what his reaction is.

Changes were made for this fixture, personnel and formation, still the same.


Terry, we have 1 league win in 16
12 shots on target all season
We have been abysmal and outplayed off teams for about 7 months
Only 1 goal scorer all season
Most worringly for me, we are showing no signs of improvement or potential
Our performances are shocking and O'Neill is starting to look one dimential and defeated if im honest.

I am definitely in the camp to change the boss, it is horrible for us fans yet again to go through this, but we are all men and if we keep believing then I believe we still have the set up to do damage in this league. What's hurting most fans is our belief was put more into O'Neill then it has anybody else in my lifetime, he was our saviour, the sunderland supporter, the big time manager. We have to man up though and if it's not working (we go to the games with all respect Terry) and it isn't, then we need to make change and make change quick before this season ends up in disaster and relegation.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Mush I completely get your frustrations mate, I'd be the same but I'm just trying to offer a bit of hope and show you a silver lining, visions are easily distorted when clouded by frustration and anger.

I think O'Neill has still got a lot of work to do and cannot live off his reputation but the fact that you're not losing does offer some hope. If you're losing these games instead of drawing them, you've got the "where the f*ck do we start to clear up this mess" scenario. With the way things have panned out, you have clarity and your issues lie in just the creativity department. It's not the scoring, you don't have out of form strikers as such you just have issues getting them into scoring positions.

The Boro defeat could be a massive "Wake up", moment for your players and for your manager. This is a big opportunity against as poor a Villa side as I've seen in many years for Sunderland to try something different.

You're on course for a 43 point finish I'd be very surprised if you finished with just 43.

 

[Nads]

Mush I completely get your frustrations mate, I'd be the same but I'm just trying to offer a bit of hope and show you a silver lining, visions are easily distorted when clouded by frustration and anger.

I think O'Neill has still got a lot of work to do and cannot live off his reputation but the fact that you're not losing does offer some hope. If you're losing these games instead of drawing them, you've got the "where the f*ck do we start to clear up this mess" scenario. With the way things have panned out, you have clarity and your issues lie in just the creativity department. It's not the scoring, you don't have out of form strikers as such you just have issues getting them into scoring positions.

The Boro defeat could be a massive "Wake up", moment for your players and for your manager. This is a big opportunity against as poor a Villa side as I've seen in many years for Sunderland to try something different.

You're on course for a 43 point finish I'd be very surprised if you finished with just 43.

The thing is Terry, the 'not losing' thing WILL end.

Mig has performed miracles, notably against West Ham & Wigan, that have gleaned us 4 points, West Ham should have had 4-6, but Carlton Cole is utter ****e.

City could have had 8 or 9.

Good fortune has got us a lot of draws, only O'Shea & Rose have actually defended to any standard.

Sess last night Terry, right in front of me, 2 defenders, turned inside and out 2-3 times waiting for support that never came, then went for a hard low cross probs hoping for a nick (absoutely his only and best option).

He turned to the North stand and put his arms out 'what can I do?'.

He's being roundly critisized at the minute, unfair, he is being left to fend for himself, because the midfield is clearly under instruction to hold a line and not support the attack.

Fletch's movement is as good as I've seen, little help when 2 or 3 at times are covering him.

We will not score goals without a change, and I don't know if MON knows how to change it.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Safc83

Seriously, that's a whole load of analysis.

Ok firstly... I know none of you have mentioned names but surely you want to replace him with a manager who is better and not worse than him? How do you judge a manager...by reputation as far as I'm concerned and O'Neill has a great reputation. He's a well respected manager and has earned his reputation by winning things and mounting top 4 challenges with Villa, which very nearly came to fruition. As for Larsson, he's can't play a forward pass. He's a dead ball specialist and that is all.

Secondly... No it doesn't guarantee success bringing in a successful manager, but it's a good start isn't it, as opposed to bringing in Joe Kinnear? I have no idea who John Robertson is, if you're saying O'Neill cannot produce without him by his side then why was O'Neill employed in the first place without his sidekick? As for your spend vs QPR's spend, that's naive to suggest you spent more, elementary considering they acquired several free players and a Real Madrid squad player who must be on £100k a week, besides which you've probably not considered Bobby Zamora, Djibril Cisse or Nedum Onuoha who Hughes signed in January.

Bruce left an awful squad, depleted with your best attacking option a loan signing from Arsenal. O'Neill has acquired talent, with value as far as I'm concerned. McClean cost about 75 pence.

Finally, my bad, I was referring to making personnel changes, but I thought I'd made that clear by highlighting where I think your problems MIGHT lay.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Mush

Completely get that Sessegnon is being wasted, his talent can open up teams. I'd be worried that he's not getting support. You do have a guy who scored 10 or so for Birmingham playing at RB though, maybe now is the time to ask him to start using his attacking nous and help the likes of Sessegnon out.

I'm starting to regret getting embroiled in this now, I was just offering a neutral point of view but like most of you have highlighted I've seen far less of Sunderland this season than you guys so maybe I'm not seeing the full picture.

 

[Nads]

Mush

Completely get that Sessegnon is being wasted, his talent can open up teams. I'd be worried that he's not getting support. You do have a guy who scored 10 or so for Birmingham playing at RB though, maybe now is the time to ask him to start using his attacking nous and help the likes of Sessegnon out.

I'm starting to regret getting embroiled in this now, I was just offering a neutral point of view but like most of you have highlighted I've seen far less of Sunderland this season than you guys so maybe I'm not seeing the full picture.

You've not been miles off Terry, but that was my first 'live' game since returning from Spain, and you see a lot more at the match of course.

It's way worse than I thought.

We all agree Gardner needs a run in CM, but whether he influences the game enough is a worry.

If he grabs it by the balls, he may just be the missing link. If not, we need to find some rather large paddles.

 

[Deleted #]

Oh and Terry, it was Bruce that signed McClean