Tears by Christmas?

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A recent tweet by FOM asking me 'What do you think about the 5 rumoured signings' - got me to wondering how big does Martin Allen want our wage bill to be, are we just going to be following in the footsteps of recreating a squad size of last season. I accept there has been a number of cheap if not free players brought in but their wages still have to be paid.

Take a look at last season at a period when we were sitting sixth in the table, having just beaten the invisible big wage budget of Crawley Town on their own turf...

01 Flitney
06 Richards (GONE)
12 Martin
15 Lawrence (GONE)
16 Fish
18 Jackman
07 Whelpdale
08 Payne (Transfer rumours)
10 Weston (GONE)
09 Kedwell
33 Kuffour (GONE)
Substitutes
28 Gazzaniga (GONE)
05 King (GONE)
14 Rooney (GONE)
23 Payne (GONE)
11 Oli (GONE)

So out of that complete team of 16 players on that day, only seven players remain. That's not even including Fuller, Spiller and whoever else have I forgotten from that time of a team supposedly capable of getting us out of League Two. Even of the seven players remaining I expect Flitney is going to be replaced by Nelson. Also not forgetting Jack Payne could still leave, or is he staying now!

So what did the money from Rooney build, what is the money from Gazza going to build, what are we currently replacing it with, quantity or quality?

Thoughts?
 
Maybe we could look at a possible line up from what we have available today and compare the 2?

Nelson
Essam
Frampton
Martin
Fish
Jackman
Whelpdale
Lee
Payne (transfer rumour but not gone as of time of writing)
Kedwell
Birchall

Subs
Forecast
Davies
Evans
Allen
Strevens

(aren't we back to 7 subs this season? But I'll keep to 5 for the comparison)


I have to say of the starting 11 only really the defence needs work on. It looks a more than capable team IMHO
 
So far only Nelson,Strevens and Allen, who will cost money in wages (Forecast is apparently free) have come in, so there is certainly room for more recruits,because as you say 12 (Gazzaninga) or 13 if you count Payne who may or may not go, from last year. So if MA says he wants 5 more, that means he will have made 8 signings with 4 wages still left over from last season. Of course he has more backroom staff who have maybe taken up those 4 wages. I reckon he's now reckoning on having some of the transfer money from Gazza to spend on transfer fees for at least 1 new player, and the rest will be free's. We'll never know whats happened to the money from Rooney,Gazza or Payne if he goes, but we do know that Scally said that there would be redundancies because of Hess's failure to get us up, but nevertheless Scally does come up with the goods if he feels he needs to, so in spite of the negativity towards him, he does try to back his manager, so I expect Martin to be able to sign whom he wants.
 
GeminiSwiftgfc said:
Maybe we could look at a possible line up from what we have available today and compare the 2?

Nelson
Essam
Frampton
Martin
Fish
Jackman
Whelpdale
Lee
Payne (transfer rumour but not gone as of time of writing)
Kedwell
Birchall

Subs
Forecast
Davies
Evans
Allen
Strevens

(aren't we back to 7 subs this season? But I'll keep to 5 for the comparison)


I have to say of the starting 11 only really the defence needs work on. It looks a more than capable team IMHO
Click to expand...

Yeah we are back to 7 subs I believe.
 
GeminiSwiftgfc said:
Maybe we could look at a possible line up from what we have available today and compare the 2?

Nelson
Essam
Frampton
Martin
Fish
Jackman
Whelpdale
Lee
Payne (transfer rumour but not gone as of time of writing)
Kedwell
Birchall

Subs
Forecast
Davies
Evans
Allen
Strevens

(aren't we back to 7 subs this season? But I'll keep to 5 for the comparison)


I have to say of the starting 11 only really the defence needs work on. It looks a more than capable team IMHO
Click to expand...

A very good comparison Gemini. Which also says to me, that if I was Scally, I would be saying you are not getting any of the Gazza money. There are several things that have prompted me to say this, firstly I stand by my consistent thoughts, that we should not be selling players such as Rooney and Gazza, however, if it does help balance the club books and keep us financially secure, then I have to accept the importance of our future security. What I do not want to see is the money to be wasted. Paid into the bank balance then straight back out again, when we had too bigger a squad in the first place.

Secondly Vinney has quite rightly indicated the freed up wages and the remaining amount of budget in his respected speculated opinion. For me to agree with that suggestion (which I do) also suggests we do not need to be dipping into any gained finances from Rooney, Gazza or possibly any Payne sale at least until Christmas, when we can gage the club situation on the pitch and within the league better. If we are within a good league position, we then might just need to secure our leap to League One with some last final investment. To spend that investment now, could see us falling flat on our face for a third season. Learn the lessons from Hessy's reign of the last two seasons, let us not make the same mistakes again.
 
brb said:
A very good comparison Gemini. Which also says to me, that if I was Scally, I would be saying you are not getting any of the Gazza money. There are several things that have prompted me to say this, firstly I stand by my consistent thoughts, that we should not be selling players such as Rooney and Gazza, however, if it does help balance the club books and keep us financially secure, then I have to accept the importance of our future security. What I do not want to see is the money to be wasted. Paid into the bank balance then straight back out again, when we had too bigger a squad in the first place.

Secondly Vinney has quite rightly indicated the freed up wages and the remaining amount of budget in his respected speculated opinion. For me to agree with that suggestion (which I do) also suggests we do not need to be dipping into any gained finances from Rooney, Gazza or possibly any Payne sale at least until Christmas, when we can gage the club situation on the pitch and within the league better. If we are within a good league position, we then might just need to secure our leap to League One with some last final investment. To spend that investment now, could see us falling flat on our face for a third season. Learn the lessons from Hessy's reign of the last two seasons, let us not make the same mistakes again.
Click to expand...


brb, the side may look good on paper, but no one's stupid are they and we all know the reason martin allen is manager is to improve on what we have & challenge for honours. if thats to build on the starting line up...which lets be trueful, we all know that needs to happen...then so be it.

i for one hope we change a few areas with better players, for me thats....

keeper (jury is out)
righ back (fish & evans...who's not ready, no matter who says he needs his chance to improve).
left back (martin & carter not up to it)
centre back (frampton won't last the season)
wide left (don't have one...unless strevens plays there)
wide right (still no out & out right winger)
striker (need a proven attacker)

plus we need them to be leader and believers...then we might be onto something !
 
brb, I can understand MA needing up to 5 more players -
1 or 2 fullbacks - Fish (particularly, and Martin to a lesser extent, still not convincing enough for a promotion seeking team.)
3. Probably a centre back ( I am yet to be convinced that Frampton will be good enough )
4. Somebody with pace
5. Maybe an extra striker (I doubt that this will happen ) It does seem that the 'more successful' teams have a 'surplace' of strikers available -
Do we want promotion or just to tread water in L2 ? - we need players who are good enough .............................. for promotion
 
I think all we mainly need is a left back and centre back or two, the wide players will be a bonus.
I think Martin Allen wants a new right back as that is why he let Barry Fuller go but I would just play Evans.
Once we have signed them if there is any budget left I would get a young striker as a back up as we have good strikers at the club already.
 
alwaysright said:
brb, I can understand MA needing up to 5 more players -
1 or 2 fullbacks - Fish (particularly, and Martin to a lesser extent, still not convincing enough for a promotion seeking team.)
3. Probably a centre back ( I am yet to be convinced that Frampton will be good enough )
4. Somebody with pace
5. Maybe an extra striker (I doubt that this will happen ) It does seem that the 'more successful' teams have a 'surplace' of strikers available -
Do we want promotion or just to tread water in L2 ? - we need players who are good enough .............................. for promotion
Click to expand...


looks like we're reading from the same script always <ok>
 
I agree with everything that is being said, although nothing really answers my thoughts which is why can we not do that in the existing (last two seasons) player budget?

Why start dipping deeper into finances, such as Gazza'a transfer fee, which I hasten to add was a free money bonanza considering we got him for nothing. How far do we go with all this, especially as you could clear the complete bank balance out but with no garuanteee that we will still achieve anything at the end of it?
 
brb to answer your question # 10
I am not so sure that we are/ will dip ( very much) into any new extra money from Gazza.
Scally hasn't spent anything up to now - and probably in credit when lower wage bills are considered ( especially McCammon .) I would be surprised if much of the 'extra' cash will be splashed - even with the ( my estimate ) 3 new players that we might sign.
 
Woah hang on lads, the season hasn't started yet, Allen has only been in the job for a few weeks and the transfer window is still open and yet we are already treating the season as a failure and the suggesting the playing staff aren't good before a ball is kicked in anger. I am sure that more players will come in and cover the precieved weaknesses in the current starting eleven. Wages wise we have probably make significant savings with the like of King, Richards, Spiller and Fuller leaving, plus the icnome from Gazza's transfer could be put into the wage budget too.

So lets not get too carried away with doom and gloom, we need to trust Allen and his choices...

Plus there is plenty of time for recriminations next May if required
 
I've been having a think about how much money the players who went were on. Now I've got no evidence to back up my assumptions except that McCammon when he was here was on 2.5 k a week so I think we can assume that no-one else was near that mark, but as Scallys' wife is on about £450 per week ( as per the accounts) no player in the first team was on less than that. So here are my unscientific guesses allowing for the 15% reduction in relegation that they all (except McCammon) had.

Fuller was captain and also in L1 so 1,2k pw
King also from L1 wages so also 1,2k pw
Weston ditto but 1k pw
Richards ditto 1k pw
Various loanees 1k pw
Kuffour widely reported to be 2k pw
Oli £800 pw
Spills £800 pw
Lawrence 1k pw
Gazza £600 pw
Rooney £600 pw

That makes a total wage bill of £11,200 pw. Divide that by 8 new players and they could all be on just over a grand a week each. That I think is about average for L2, so if MA can attract out of work players for that, he shouldn't need any transfer fees. I wonder also if MA has offered Barry the chance to come back, knowing that he would be on less than he is now, because if we had to renew his contract he would have to be on the same money as he is now, but if Barry can't get anything else, we would gladly have him back on more acceptable money (at least to us)
 
Lenny - not sure if brb is being overly negative - although in one of my previous posts I have given an answer to a concern that he seems to have regarding ' wasting ' transfer monies received - inasmuch we haven't spent any money - rather have saved on lower wage bills. I also explained to brb why we probably will need up to the 5 more players that MA has eluded he wants to sign. - only to replenish the players that were released at the end of the season. ( I still think they made a mistake releasing King )
I do get the impression that maybe brb is concerned that we still are light in cetain positions ( at the back) that were of main concern last season - and that, to date we may not be properly covered in these areas - to a quality level that would be an improvement on last season - no good being highest scorers if we may (again) concede too many.
Although BSG states that the season has yet to start, and that the transfer window is open, and there should be no doom & gloom - I would like to get a few quality players for the key positions a.s.a.p.
 
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