Team sheet Tactics & Formation
- Thread starter Buckyohare
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With a few suggestions we move to 3 at the back be good to know what people want as a team sheet and the effect on the rest of the squad.
for me a 352 would be:
Walton,
with burgess left cd, Edmundson middle, wolf or JD right cd.
Morsy, evans and Fraser.
wingbacks Penney and burns with a view to buying a lefty ASAP.
piggot and chaplin up top.
I’m not 100% sure it will be a very good side tbh and it’ll take time to ‘gel’ (that old chestnut) and there’s a case for instead improving our current 4231 as a viable alternative IF we can sign some upgrades.
the clamour to sign Bonne has been subdued. Still want him? I would if the price is right.
so this formation leaves some issues; no bonne (if u accept he ain’t scoring and u like the strong combo of big man and little) and can’t leave Chaplin out given he’s a proven championship player.
no place for Celina, the divisions most gifted player. Do he and Bonne need to go to free up wages for signing more suited players for this formation?
no place for Edward’s. As u can imagine I’m not too bothered I’ve never been a fan but, I wonder if he could be a wing back and his failings addressed. If not; get rid. He’s got too little of the necessary wider ability required beyond head down charging.
Aluko. Seems a waste not to have him assigned to a position but good striker back up?
overall I think the current squad is what cook asked for given they only work in his formation. It’s just we’re short in some key positions and they don’t seem to believe in each other anymore. Which is a major problem we must address in January regardless of formation. They have no confidence in each other to win football matches.
so we’d need to shift; Norwood, Jackson, Nolan, Edward’s, Celina and perhaps Aluko? That’s a lot of dead wood or good players without a position to manage in jan plus some incoming!
Is it better to stick with 4231 and improve a couple of positions?
either way, if we stick with 4231 or move to 352 we need better players to bring some chnages and renewed mom et and belied to this squad.
for me a 352 would be:
Walton,
with burgess left cd, Edmundson middle, wolf or JD right cd.
Morsy, evans and Fraser.
wingbacks Penney and burns with a view to buying a lefty ASAP.
piggot and chaplin up top.
I’m not 100% sure it will be a very good side tbh and it’ll take time to ‘gel’ (that old chestnut) and there’s a case for instead improving our current 4231 as a viable alternative IF we can sign some upgrades.
the clamour to sign Bonne has been subdued. Still want him? I would if the price is right.
so this formation leaves some issues; no bonne (if u accept he ain’t scoring and u like the strong combo of big man and little) and can’t leave Chaplin out given he’s a proven championship player.
no place for Celina, the divisions most gifted player. Do he and Bonne need to go to free up wages for signing more suited players for this formation?
no place for Edward’s. As u can imagine I’m not too bothered I’ve never been a fan but, I wonder if he could be a wing back and his failings addressed. If not; get rid. He’s got too little of the necessary wider ability required beyond head down charging.
Aluko. Seems a waste not to have him assigned to a position but good striker back up?
overall I think the current squad is what cook asked for given they only work in his formation. It’s just we’re short in some key positions and they don’t seem to believe in each other anymore. Which is a major problem we must address in January regardless of formation. They have no confidence in each other to win football matches.
so we’d need to shift; Norwood, Jackson, Nolan, Edward’s, Celina and perhaps Aluko? That’s a lot of dead wood or good players without a position to manage in jan plus some incoming!
Is it better to stick with 4231 and improve a couple of positions?
either way, if we stick with 4231 or move to 352 we need better players to bring some chnages and renewed mom et and belied to this squad.
Fair shout Bucky and most on hear would like that, except I would keep Donacien RB as he has been playing well with Aluko as R Wing back. Up front, I still like to see Bonne alongside Chaplin, and hopefully they would thrive again & Chaps can be his top sidekick to play off and start scoring again.
And I would keep Edwards, Celina and Aluko. A seasoned new manager plus his coaching team will enjoy getting the best out of them. Edwards is the classic sub with 20 to go, come on to run them ragged, and have it drilled into his head to get that delivery in on the nail.
All very good scenarios, but the elephant in the room needs to be addressed!!! How do we get Judge back ? Because since he left it has all gone downhill rather rapidly. Hopefully Spanish will have a answer.
i think we'll have to stick with the 4231 for now.
ITFC made a good shout for a team lining up with 532 using Burns and Coulson as wingbacks. the problem is-neither are fit; not tomorrow and re coulson maybe never. so its hard to make an immediate formation change without the correct players for the formation. most managers ive read and heard discuss it agree that the #1 priority is to play the formation and system that suits the players you have available the best (Sachi had a minority opposite view, but he won everything so he still had a valid point).
I remain of the view that some choice additions in january, shifting out some players where its not working, and specifically getting some fit and top quality wingbacks in would make the world of difference as the wingbacks are absolutely fundamental to the success of this system Cook built with these players. yet he's never had the benefit of the ones we've got for more than a game or two here and there before they get injured again or those that are fit just underperform.
this is such a sorry state of affairs; a quick fire sacking, no ready made replacement, 1 transfer window to get a perfect 11. the reaction of the players to the coaching and the cook departure suggests that was all less problematic than we'd feared. At man u, they were saying even before OGS left they had no idea what they were supposed to be doing, but this lot have firmly accepted the blame lies at the players feet. and thats brave because it would have been dead easy to say Cook had lost it, we weren't coached etc etc. but they didn't...and Cook is off into the sunset with his payoff...
ITFC made a good shout for a team lining up with 532 using Burns and Coulson as wingbacks. the problem is-neither are fit; not tomorrow and re coulson maybe never. so its hard to make an immediate formation change without the correct players for the formation. most managers ive read and heard discuss it agree that the #1 priority is to play the formation and system that suits the players you have available the best (Sachi had a minority opposite view, but he won everything so he still had a valid point).
I remain of the view that some choice additions in january, shifting out some players where its not working, and specifically getting some fit and top quality wingbacks in would make the world of difference as the wingbacks are absolutely fundamental to the success of this system Cook built with these players. yet he's never had the benefit of the ones we've got for more than a game or two here and there before they get injured again or those that are fit just underperform.
this is such a sorry state of affairs; a quick fire sacking, no ready made replacement, 1 transfer window to get a perfect 11. the reaction of the players to the coaching and the cook departure suggests that was all less problematic than we'd feared. At man u, they were saying even before OGS left they had no idea what they were supposed to be doing, but this lot have firmly accepted the blame lies at the players feet. and thats brave because it would have been dead easy to say Cook had lost it, we weren't coached etc etc. but they didn't...and Cook is off into the sunset with his payoff...
Agree, that's if everyone is fit but again in our current situation I wouldn't be adverse to KVY and maybe someone like Edwards playing there, whilst he frustrates and you wouldn't think it he's really come along with the defensive side of his game. I just really feel we need to get 3 in midfield and push them up slightly higher, whether that be as a 433 or 532 I'm not sure. Apart from Burns, I'm really not sure about any of the 3 players who usually play behind the main striker, there are too many flair players there who don't get involved enough in general play or defensive work and are too far away from the centre midfielders. If we're playing a 433 I'd play Norwood with Aluko and Chaplin in the wide areas.
Yes agree we need to strengthen in January and probably that means shifting some actually quite talented players out of the club. Apart from LB I'd arguably say that although we seem to be well stocked in the wide forward areas if we are going to play with wide forwards we need a bit more variety there, we either need a wide midfielder who'd be able to play in a 442 and/or a Walters/Waghorn type player who is a bit more robust than our currently lightweight flair players, that's not to say they're not good players just we have too many of similar ilk
The 352 sounded like it gave us that element of ‘balance’ when we we’re both in and out of possession and when we were transitioning from defence to attack and visa versa. Sounds good.
I had a look at Man Utd’s formations and they used 3 at the back quite a lot under OGS so presumably KM was part of that decision process.
In terms of players I think we’re ok but which positions would you most want to see upgrades?
It’s a formation that still requires excellent players as wing backs. Burns is great. What’s plan b on the right if he’s injured?
for me Penney was always the back up so unless coulson is back soon (and I wonder if he is as we haven’t sent him back) that is a position we need to improve.
gk. I’d sign Walton if we could. I take hampys point about his distribution but he’s more than good enough for this league and we can always upgrade if we ever find ourselves in the Championship. He gives the defence confidence the other two most def so not and that’s a Big Deal.
then of course the elephants in the room…with this formation there’s no perfect place for Edward’s, Celina, Chaplin. That’s the best player in the division and we’re not gonna use him plus two of our big Sumer buys…
I had a look at Man Utd’s formations and they used 3 at the back quite a lot under OGS so presumably KM was part of that decision process.
In terms of players I think we’re ok but which positions would you most want to see upgrades?
It’s a formation that still requires excellent players as wing backs. Burns is great. What’s plan b on the right if he’s injured?
for me Penney was always the back up so unless coulson is back soon (and I wonder if he is as we haven’t sent him back) that is a position we need to improve.
gk. I’d sign Walton if we could. I take hampys point about his distribution but he’s more than good enough for this league and we can always upgrade if we ever find ourselves in the Championship. He gives the defence confidence the other two most def so not and that’s a Big Deal.
then of course the elephants in the room…with this formation there’s no perfect place for Edward’s, Celina, Chaplin. That’s the best player in the division and we’re not gonna use him plus two of our big Sumer buys…
I think most on here are pleased with this new formation. To reply to Bucky's valid talents wasted Q. Aluko can fill in on the R if Burns gets injured. He played very well there for a string of games with Donacien in behind him. If Edwards was strictly coached by KM and his team to wire his brain to perfect deliveries, and sooner, then he can have another go out on the L. And Chaplin & Celina have both proved themselves at no 10.
It is pleasantly ridiculous to have such talent, and lets hope they can all play their part when called upon in KM's team strategy.
It is pleasantly ridiculous to have such talent, and lets hope they can all play their part when called upon in KM's team strategy.
352 or 532 did really look more balanced and means we didn't have any 'luxury' players in the team plus I think having Burns and Norwood back in the side makes such a difference because the aggression and work they bring to the team. Looking at our chances pretty much everyone Norwood and or Burns was involved. They make such a difference in pressing also.
If Coulsen can't get fit, definitely need another LWB, although in an emergency I think Edwards could play there.
If we are going to play this formation I'd say some CBs could be a priority as not 100% sure our back up CBs are capable of playing in a formation where if either side of the sweeper are required to bring the ball out. I'd also say unless Harper or Carroll step up soon we need a quality box to box midfielder.
In terms of if Burns gets injured I'd have absolutely no problem in KVY stepping in, infact despite how good Burns has been i think KVY could give him a run for his money.
Definitely sign Walton, he looks a cut above this level.
In terms of Edwards Chaplin and Celina, whilst not necessarily their favoured positions I still think they could play either in the role that Aluko played or in Chaplin and Celinas case could play as 1 of the top 2 whilst maybe not conventional striker, plus I think Edwards could play wing back
Yep, Kvy is good as a wingback on either flank.
My problem with the headless chicken is he just cannot cross or pick a pass so he’s a bit doomed as a wingback too…
You’re right about the CBS: toto is not a good option unless it’s an emergency but Burgess might be ok given he functioned well in the Accrington’s defence which was a 3 at the back. Def need someone good added here too though.
I wonder if celinas lack of defensive work is going to cost him. He’s been poor in that dept and I doubt JM can have anyone that doesn’t do their but in and out of possession.
Very interesting post match interview by KM and Burns yesterday.
burns said they’d spent the training period working on how to defend and attack against the system and tactics Gillingham would deploy. It obviously worked and it really looked like a training match from my view in the home stand. As Stretchy said, the real test will be against the top 6 sides.
but back to the training; aside from some fun and new ideas, it seemed clear cook spent the time drilling them in his 4231 regardless of who or what they would come up against. Whereas KM is making it relevant and specific to the opposition within the framework of the 3412 that he’s found suits the strengths of the current players.
im literally dying to see who his first signings are as that will say a lot about where we can see improvement to get us more competitive at the top and outta this godforsaken division.
We are where we are for our own errors on and off the pitch over the years but I really think we’re destined for better things in the not too distant future based on what I saw at PR and Gillingham the last 2 games.
btw, does anyone have a view on Celina and that system? I’d say he’s behind Chaplin and Aluko right now…
I also felt our third goal was our goal of the season for the collective team effort it entailed. It was mesmerising. Or was Celinas solo goal still better?
burns said they’d spent the training period working on how to defend and attack against the system and tactics Gillingham would deploy. It obviously worked and it really looked like a training match from my view in the home stand. As Stretchy said, the real test will be against the top 6 sides.
but back to the training; aside from some fun and new ideas, it seemed clear cook spent the time drilling them in his 4231 regardless of who or what they would come up against. Whereas KM is making it relevant and specific to the opposition within the framework of the 3412 that he’s found suits the strengths of the current players.
im literally dying to see who his first signings are as that will say a lot about where we can see improvement to get us more competitive at the top and outta this godforsaken division.
We are where we are for our own errors on and off the pitch over the years but I really think we’re destined for better things in the not too distant future based on what I saw at PR and Gillingham the last 2 games.
btw, does anyone have a view on Celina and that system? I’d say he’s behind Chaplin and Aluko right now…
I also felt our third goal was our goal of the season for the collective team effort it entailed. It was mesmerising. Or was Celinas solo goal still better?
If we look at posts from the early part of this season, people were vilified for not accepting that this was a work in progress and cook should be given this season as a minimum. This chaps been in a month and auto s have been mentioned!!
I am possibly one of the most miserable people around.
If we really kick on and I hope we do, is there a possibility that he will be picked up by a club further up the food chain?
Bucky, team goal all day long
I am possibly one of the most miserable people around.
If we really kick on and I hope we do, is there a possibility that he will be picked up by a club further up the food chain?
Bucky, team goal all day long
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This is my biggest fear!My only hope is that the new owners would seek out a similar young,progressive coach as a replacement.
I’m not 100% sure I follow you but I am/was of the view this was a process of rebuilding a broken club and I felt cook deserved time as I didn’t expect him to get all the signings right in one window. Clearly they’re not as bad as he made them look!If we look at posts from the early part of this season, you were vilified for not accepting that this was a work in progress and cook should be given this season as a minimum. This chaps been in a month and auto s have been mentioned!!
I am possibly one of the most miserable people around.
If we really kick on and I hope we do, is there a possibility that he will be picked up by a club further up the food chain?
Bucky, team goal all day long
I have def bemoaned the lack of interplay under cook but it was there in spades yesterday; hundreds of passes from our two midfielders and lots of quick one and two touch interplay that bamboozled Gillingham and we were out of sight after 15 mins frankly.
If we look at posts from the early part of this season, you were vilified for not accepting that this was a work in progress and cook should be given this season as a minimum. This chaps been in a month and auto s have been mentioned!!
I am possibly one of the most miserable people around.
If we really kick on and I hope we do, is there a possibility that he will be picked up by a club further up the food chain?
Bucky, team goal all day long
It’s a different person, a different character and McKenna doesn’t have a long run of defeats and outbursts at the players behind him.
What we felt at the start of the season under Paul Cook is not at all relevant to what we think McKenna is capable of.
The owners didn’t think giving Paul Cook forever to build was the way to go either.
I think McKenna will succeed this season or next. He will be poached - but even that is after a single promotion then we’re still winners.
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With regards to Celina and I have to say Edwards some what if this is going to be our preferred formation, I don't really see them fitting in despite their obvious quality. If you're looking at the role Aluko played I think there are players who are ahead of Celina in terms of being suited to the role plus now we look to press as a unit, I'm not sure it's one of his strengths. For me Celina is best to the left of a forward 3.
Edwards is a bit more of a work in progress and I think in this formation could play the wing back role at a push and can play more of the wider positions that Celina can as he's more disciplined defensively.
3 of the goals at the weekend was superb and I've always preferred great team goals with passing and movement to goals of individual brilliance however that Celina goal was very very special because of the touch and the fact the GK wasn't really off his line
If we look at posts from the early part of this season, you were vilified for not accepting that this was a work in progress and cook should be given this season as a minimum. This chaps been in a month and auto s have been mentioned!!
I am possibly one of the most miserable people around.
If we really kick on and I hope we do, is there a possibility that he will be picked up by a club further up the food chain?
Bucky, team goal all day long
I'm also miserable, I was quite surprised how we were favourites for promotion this season mainly due to the number of players we brought in over the summer and the lack of a proper pre season. I always thought we'd have an indifferent start and potentially push on in the new year to get in or around the playoffs. Hopefully that will be proven this season although 8 points with teams who have games in hand on us is alot of ground to make up.
If we perform the way we played against Gillingham every match, I don't think we'd drop any points for the rest of the season but that won't happen. For however great we were Gillinghim were poor and for a side known under Evans for being organised and robust they really weren't, they were second to everything. What will be interesting to see if how McKenna will manage a game if we're having an off day just to grind out a result
Yes your pre season assessment was excellent and very true. Good rationale.
so yes, Celina really can only expect to play on the left but that means dropping Norwood which id say isn’t a good idea. He works hard on the press (he was outstanding vs gillingham and Wycombe) and Celina won’t do that. I suspect he’s just not a KM player. Yet he’s not yet Been sent back…
I’d argue hat Wycombe was a very different proposition to Gillingham and we did indeed battle away and grind out a result. Def though it’s not going to be champagne football every game but I think he alluded to that when he said for Bolton it would be tactically different and that’s a good thing for me; he’s adapting to meet the specific challenge of each opposition over just doing the same thing every game as per Cook.