Syria

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RobSpur said:
You asked me whether the Crimea and Ukraine bullied Russia. In the context of the conversation, you appeared to do this to imply that in your opinion Russia had bullied Crimea and Ukraine.

I pointed out to you, that whilst the new government in Kiev was very much opposed to Russia, the Crimeans supported Russia. The 2014 referendum in Crimea in fact returned 97% of votes in favour of rejoining the Russian Federation.

So, irrespective of whether international law recognises Crimea as part of Ukraine or not, your views about Crimea appear to have been completely misguided, and incorrect.
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And as has been pointed out already it was Russia that applied pressure by covert means onto Crimea. One day no Russian troops in Crimea, next day, oh sorry we forgot to mention it. There are Russian troops in the Ukraine and the Russians are employing the same tactics there that they used in the Crimea.

The last people to bully Russia were the Germans.
 
DevAdvocate said:
And as has been pointed out already it was Russia that applied pressure by covert means onto Crimea. One day no Russian troops in Crimea, next day, oh sorry we forgot to mention it. There are Russian troops in the Ukraine and the Russians are employing the same tactics there that they used in the Crimea.

The last people to bully Russia were the Germans*.
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*Nazis
 
DevAdvocate said:
And as has been pointed out already it was Russia that applied pressure by covert means onto Crimea. One day no Russian troops in Crimea, next day, oh sorry we forgot to mention it. There are Russian troops in the Ukraine and the Russians are employing the same tactics there that they used in the Crimea.

The last people to bully Russia were the Germans.
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It's been pointed out that Russia applied pressuRe by covert means to convince 98% of Crimeans to vote for rejoining the Russian Federation has it ?

By someone who talks out of their ass as much as you do on international affairs I suspect ?
 
Back on the subject of Syria.

I've met two syrians in the last two days, and talked to them at some length about the war.

Both independently said the following :

* Most Syrians would go back to how things were in 2011 and carry on in an instant if they could
* Most of those who took part in the initial protests against Assad, regret their actions, and consider that they were wrong
* The only way forward for Syria is under Assad (actually one said that the FSA might be an option short term, although he said that democracy would never work in Syria)
* Prior to the uprisings, Syrians could do pretty much whatever they wanted (one said, more so than in the UK), so long as they didn't try to get involved in national politics.

One of the two, who claims to have been heavily involved in the initial protests, said that on reflection, Syria was very lucky to have what it did, and that the government was as good as good as could have been hoped for, and also that he has no grudge against Assad personally and considers him a good man. He said the problem (to the extent it was a government issue) is/was some of his generals.
 
RobSpur said:
It's been pointed out that Russia applied pressuRe by covert means to convince 98% of Crimeans to vote for rejoining the Russian Federation has it ?

By someone who talks out of their ass as much as you do on international affairs I suspect ?
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You trust a vote that throws up a rresult of 98% in favour of anything? what's your name, Sepp Blatter?
 
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DevAdvocate said:
Oh dear. <laugh>
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If you go to the section headed "polling" on the link ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_status_referendum,_2014 ) , you will find the following historical results (date, poller, results) of polls of the people of Crimea on their political status :

2008, ukranian, 64% wish to secede and become part of Russia
2013, american, 23% wish to secede and become part of Russia
2014, crimean, 77% wish to secede and become part of Russia
2014, german, 71% wish to secede and become part of russia
2009,UN, 68% wish to secede and become part of Russia
2010, UN, 66% wish to secede and become part of Russia
2011,UN, 66% wish to secede and become part of Russia

In other words, aside from the clearly erroneous American poll, Crimean citizens, consistently indicated a wish to secede from Ukraine and become a part of Russia. And that was before the pro russian government was overthrown (in a coup) in 2014.

So on what basis do you assert that Russia bullied the Crimea ?
 
RobSpur said:
If you go to the section headed "polling" on the link ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_status_referendum,_2014 ) , you will find the following historical results (date, poller, results) of polls of the people of Crimea on their political status :

2008, ukranian, 64% wish to secede and become part of Russia
2013, american, 23% wish to secede and become part of Russia
2014, crimean, 77% wish to secede and become part of Russia
2014, german, 71% wish to secede and become part of russia
2009,UN, 68% wish to secede and become part of Russia
2010, UN, 66% wish to secede and become part of Russia
2011,UN, 66% wish to secede and become part of Russia

In other words, aside from the clearly erroneous American poll, Crimean citizens, consistently indicated a wish to secede from Ukraine and become a part of Russia. And that was before the pro russian government was overthrown (in a coup) in 2014.

So on what basis do you assert that Russia bullied the Crimea ?
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You want to believe the results of that poll, carry on <ok>

<laugh>
 
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