But have you seen him play this year, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but there is the possibility that he's not the same player he was and he's improved his game?
Summer 2014 Transfers Mega-thread
- Thread starter DHCanary
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But have you seen him play this year, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but there is the possibility that he's not the same player he was and he's improved his game?
To clarify what I said on this, I'd like to see both Surman and another ACM come in, whether or not Wes stays. There is no 25 man squad limit in the Championship to my knowledge, but what Adams has said makes me feel he's very aware of where improvement is needed. I'm feeling much better about the new season after these developments.
Craig Bryson got 16 goals and something like 12 assists last season. OK its only one year but thats the sort of Midfielder we need!
Other midfielders who did well in the Champ last season include:
Albert Adomah: 12 goals- 5 assists
Lewis McGugan: 10 goals- 5 assists
Danny Ward: 10 goals- 6 assists
Adam Clayton: 7 goals- 4 assists
Andy Reid: 9 goals- 13 assists
Matt Richie: 9 goals- 2 assists
Jamie Paterson: 8 goals- 4 assists
Again, I get that these are only one season stats but surely we can find a midfielder who is capable of providing this sort of return rather than bringing back Surman to play in the "Wes" role
Other midfielders who did well in the Champ last season include:
Albert Adomah: 12 goals- 5 assists
Lewis McGugan: 10 goals- 5 assists
Danny Ward: 10 goals- 6 assists
Adam Clayton: 7 goals- 4 assists
Andy Reid: 9 goals- 13 assists
Matt Richie: 9 goals- 2 assists
Jamie Paterson: 8 goals- 4 assists
Again, I get that these are only one season stats but surely we can find a midfielder who is capable of providing this sort of return rather than bringing back Surman to play in the "Wes" role
It's a good point. Ideally I'd like Surman playing in central midfield with someone else playing in the hole in front of him. Either put Surman at the left of a diamond or alongside Tettey in a 4-2-3-1.
I think its funny that after we make a good signing and bring in a new striker there are so many people going "but we really need a creative mid" especially on twitter and Facebook, its true we do but we don't sign players in order of the position we most need to fill. Clearly Grabban was on our list of targets, he became available and as Cardiff had also supposedly activated his release clause we swooped in and did a deal, sort of like the Hooper transfer now I think about it. Im sure we have a creative player or two on the list just need to wait.
Yes, Bath, you'd think so, but the reason we got relegated was that RvW and Hooper didn't score the goals they are capable of, largely because we had no creative guile to feed them. Howson works hard and covers box to box, but Wes was largely overlooked and no cover was brought in during January.
It used to pain me to see them both back in the centre circle - just to get a frickin' touch of the ball
I agree that ideally a new ACM is needed but I think we also need to see what happens with the current squad. If we lost Bassong and RVW I wouldnt mind and this would give us some funds hopefully £8m or maybe a bit more to invest in an ACM or to keep aside for January. If we kept everyone else I would be happy with the strength of the midfield and would just want a new CB.
Looking at the midfield I think there are plenty of options that at this slightly lower standard and in a more attacking formatrion would thrive. We have E Bennett, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Fer, Tettey, Murphy, Snodgrass and Redmond - and I am sure I have missed a couple there! Thats before maybe having Surman back. I know its controversial to have Hoolahan in that list but for all the drama of last season does anyone think that we can get a better ACM for championship level? Other options would be Redmond, Snodgrass, Pilks or Bennet in that role and I am sure there is a solution in there!
My opinion would be to have Redmond on one wing and Bennett on the other with Snodgrass at the tip of the diamond with Tettey at the base. With a partnership of Hooper and Grabban upfront and a similar back 4 to last season I would like to think we would be able to creat plenty of chances and be strong defensively.
I havent really mentioned Fer who I know isnt everyones cup of tea but I still believe has loads of potential and could be a class act although I doubt he will be staying.
If we had stayed up i would have loved to had brought in a player like Holtby but I cant see us making a transfer like that now we have been relegated.
Looking at the midfield I think there are plenty of options that at this slightly lower standard and in a more attacking formatrion would thrive. We have E Bennett, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Fer, Tettey, Murphy, Snodgrass and Redmond - and I am sure I have missed a couple there! Thats before maybe having Surman back. I know its controversial to have Hoolahan in that list but for all the drama of last season does anyone think that we can get a better ACM for championship level? Other options would be Redmond, Snodgrass, Pilks or Bennet in that role and I am sure there is a solution in there!
My opinion would be to have Redmond on one wing and Bennett on the other with Snodgrass at the tip of the diamond with Tettey at the base. With a partnership of Hooper and Grabban upfront and a similar back 4 to last season I would like to think we would be able to creat plenty of chances and be strong defensively.
I havent really mentioned Fer who I know isnt everyones cup of tea but I still believe has loads of potential and could be a class act although I doubt he will be staying.
If we had stayed up i would have loved to had brought in a player like Holtby but I cant see us making a transfer like that now we have been relegated.
I doubt anyone would argue we need another ACM, and I appreciate that looking at goals/assists from is certainly one measure of assessing who would be good.
I would say, though, that it's not necessarily the best measure of who fits that role - you might find that a quality attacking midfield regularly plays through balls or chips over the top to a rushing through wide man who then has a simple lay-off to the striker. The rushing through wideman and the striker get the assist and the goal on the stats, but if we're honest, apart from the wideman making a good run, the goal was created by the guy who played the through ball.
To put it simply - there's more to an ACM than goals/assists. I have to agree that Surman's assists, etc, don't look spectacular, but the fact is he was moved to a more central, deeper role where he would get less of those opportunities. But it's players like him who draw the opposition out and make space for others. Yes, maybe not the final ball or two, but Surman had an undoubtedly fantastic second half to the season in a team of (at the outset) questionable quality, in a position he wasn't really renowned for.
I still think we need another ACM, but having Surman back will make a world of difference. If by some miracle we keep Fer, I can see this sort of formation being extremely dangerous:
......................Fer
...........Howson ... Surman
Snodgrass......................Redmond
..................Hooper
I would say, though, that it's not necessarily the best measure of who fits that role - you might find that a quality attacking midfield regularly plays through balls or chips over the top to a rushing through wide man who then has a simple lay-off to the striker. The rushing through wideman and the striker get the assist and the goal on the stats, but if we're honest, apart from the wideman making a good run, the goal was created by the guy who played the through ball.
To put it simply - there's more to an ACM than goals/assists. I have to agree that Surman's assists, etc, don't look spectacular, but the fact is he was moved to a more central, deeper role where he would get less of those opportunities. But it's players like him who draw the opposition out and make space for others. Yes, maybe not the final ball or two, but Surman had an undoubtedly fantastic second half to the season in a team of (at the outset) questionable quality, in a position he wasn't really renowned for.
I still think we need another ACM, but having Surman back will make a world of difference. If by some miracle we keep Fer, I can see this sort of formation being extremely dangerous:
......................Fer
...........Howson ... Surman
Snodgrass......................Redmond
..................Hooper
always liked andrew surman and was a little deflated when he went out on loan. remember he started every game when hughton initially walked through the door but unfortunately we failed to win any of those games and as soon as he was dropped/injured (can't remember which happened) we beat arsenal and he never got another look in. so in many ways, surman was a casualty of circumstance really - he did nothing wrong in those opening games.
i think we should bring him back in to the fold. he's not an attacking midfielder - i have no idea why anyone on this thread thinks he'd be playing that role. i agree with how rob has set us up above (though i'm sure the personnel will alter over the coming weeks) but surman playing centrally is a good footballer. ok, he doesn't create or score that many goals but his ball retention has always been high, he is good going forward, defensively switched on and can dribble, even though he lacks pace. its a no brainer for me - he's a top championship midfielder and versatile too - why wouldn't we want him back?
i think we should bring him back in to the fold. he's not an attacking midfielder - i have no idea why anyone on this thread thinks he'd be playing that role. i agree with how rob has set us up above (though i'm sure the personnel will alter over the coming weeks) but surman playing centrally is a good footballer. ok, he doesn't create or score that many goals but his ball retention has always been high, he is good going forward, defensively switched on and can dribble, even though he lacks pace. its a no brainer for me - he's a top championship midfielder and versatile too - why wouldn't we want him back?
J
JKCanary
Guest
I think it's more likely to be this eh?
Johnson
Howson - Surman
E.Bennett -------------- Redmond
Hooper
Howson - Surman
E.Bennett -------------- Redmond
Hooper
Doesn't look too bad either though does it?
I like the sound of marknemo's suggestion "to have Redmond on one wing and Bennett on the other with Snodgrass at the tip of the diamond with Tettey at the base. With a partnership of Hooper and Grabban upfront and a similar back 4 to last season I would like to think we would be able to create plenty of chances and be strong defensively".
Snodgrass often plays in a central role for Scotland and it would allow us to have pace on both wings with two strikers up front. Alternatively, especially away from home, we could use a 4-2-3-1 with Snodgrass as ACM/shadow striker. Hoolahan (if he stays) and Surman are other options in the central role. I'd still like to see another quality specialist ACM coming in for the 'playmaker' role though, especially if Fer and/or Hoolahan leave.
Snodgrass often plays in a central role for Scotland and it would allow us to have pace on both wings with two strikers up front. Alternatively, especially away from home, we could use a 4-2-3-1 with Snodgrass as ACM/shadow striker. Hoolahan (if he stays) and Surman are other options in the central role. I'd still like to see another quality specialist ACM coming in for the 'playmaker' role though, especially if Fer and/or Hoolahan leave.
Yeah, probably - mine was perhaps wishful thinking
Although thinking about it having Tettey at the base could be the most dynamicSurman has apparently improved as a CM whereas before he was seen as a winger (where pace mattered), he also keeps the ball well, passes well and he creates space for others. Essentially, what we need in central midfield. He's not a new ACM
it seems odd that so many people still clamour for snodgrass to play centrally when every time he has, be it for norwich, leeds or scotland, he has looked dreadfully lost. adams played him there a couple of times in those last few games and he was awful. his natural position is right wing - that is why he plays his best stuff there.
if we want to play with quicker wingers then we need to sell snoddy, not try and accommodate him in a weaker position just for the sake of keeping him.
if we want to play with quicker wingers then we need to sell snoddy, not try and accommodate him in a weaker position just for the sake of keeping him.
Don't want to sound too pedantic but a diamond with wingers wouldn't work. Redmond and Bennett would play too wide and it would leave us horribly exposed. If we wanted to play two up top we'd probably opt for more central players in a diamond or maybe go 4-1-3-2. Something like this:
-------------- Tettey --------------
-- Bennett --Howson -- Redmond
---------Hooper -- Grabban ------
Unlikely. I think it would probably be a fair price given that he hardly set the world alight last season (in an admittedly poor team), but our financial position means we're able to hold out for more and I think that would put you off and you might see better value elsewhere. The only chance this will happen is if Hooper demands a move (and there's no particular sign of this yet, and, depending on how reliable you think it is, Adams has said he's definitely not pushing for a move)
I think he needs to establish some credibility by scoring at the championship level first and then hopefully returning to the Premiership as a proven striker in the higher echelons (with us hopefully!). Simply jumping ship at this time to QPR would not be doing him any favours at this time in my opinion.
J
JKCanary
Guest
I dunno. I could see it happening. QPR have the resources to make an offer that McNally wouldn't refuse.
Hooper isn't going to pass up another shot at the Prem if we accept a bid.
J
JKCanary
Guest
Questionable source, but sounds like we may well need a new left back after all...
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/posts/2014/06/06/olsson-in-talks-with-west-ham
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/posts/2014/06/06/olsson-in-talks-with-west-ham