Suarez

[Warmir Pouchov]

So because he came up with some excuse about "not understanding" (I think you're being very naive if you believe that, given how long he's played in Europe) his punishment should be reduced? No way.

Ultimately Liverpool FC are going to suffer and it was (I agree with you) their responsibility to ensure he is culturally understanding enough not to be racist. So the ban is fair, surely you agree with that at least?

It doesn't mean that Suarez is necessarily "a racist" but hopefully he'll now understand what is acceptable in more culturally advanced areas of the world.

I find the ban excessive given the circumstances but would accept that the FA need to make an example of someone. I am simply saying it would be better for all parties in the interests of racial harmony if the FA could set out some guidelines for clubs to follow, and the clubs used them as a basis to educate the players they sign from other cultures. Obviously some of onus will always fall on the individual, but I can see that at the moment we have a flawed system that does not consider all differences around the world on the issue of racism.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

To all the people saying Suarez is ignorant and therefore it is acceptable:

He has played in Europe for five years. He should be well aware of the connotations of racism in Europe by now.
His "ignorance" is a bullshit smokescreen designed as a last-gasp defence.

Also, whoever it was who said that injury is part of the job, racism is not - agreed entirely. This is the key thing that people need to understand.

I''ve got a newsflash for you tomtom, the rest of europe do not hold the same views as us on racism. Indeed many in this country would consider the rest of europe to be miles behind in terms of tackling racism. Certainly the FA is considered to be streets ahead of FIFA and UEFA on understanding the issue. Him playing in Holland would not neccesarily have helped him understand what is acceptable in England.

 

[The mighty DeBOOSHy]

I find the ban excessive given the circumstances but would accept that the FA need to make an example of someone. I am simply saying it would be better for all parties in the interests of racial harmony if the FA could set out some guidelines for clubs to follow, and the clubs used them as a basis to educate the players they sign from other cultures. Obviously some of onus will always fall on the individual, but I can see that at the moment we have a flawed system that does not consider all differences around the world on the issue of racism.

There are guidelines though - all companies, football clubs included, are responsible for having an equality & diversity policy, and are also responsible for making sure their employees are aware of it and suitably trained. So if they've failed this, I don't think the ban is excessive. If anything, it could have been longer to show clubs they have to take a serious stance on it to kick racism out of football. I think Terry should have a ban of the same length.

 

[Freddd]

I have many friends who have bee to South America Fredd, Brazil/Argentina admittedly not Uruguay. It is very very different. They were shocked and offended for a good while initially. The way they used the term for black there would be completely unacceptable and considered racist in this country. At first they thought "this country is shocking, the blacks are still being kept down, how far behind are they" But they slowly came to realise that they could not be further wide of the mark.

I can easilly accept that "Ola, Negrito" doesn't mean anything like what the words translated into English would mean. They can use the word Blackie the way we might be able to call someone Blondie (which is commendable).

I just have my doubts about situations where ethnicity is made part of an insult. I will take a lot of persuading that this doesn't give the insult a racial component. But that is probably as far as you and I cna take it

 

[TomTom94]

I''ve got a newsflash for you tomtom, the rest of europe do not hold the same views as us on racism. Indeed many in this country would consider the rest of europe to be miles behind in terms of tackling racism. Certainly the FA is considered to be streets ahead of FIFA and UEFA on understanding the issue. Him playing in Holland would not neccesarily have helped him understand what is acceptable in England.

I know that it's prevalent in certain countries (Spain is particularly bad though), I thought Holland was above that though? A lot of players of all races play for the Dutch clubs...

 

[Dr. Lucien Sanchez]

I have given you the reason it is not relevant. That is dutch culture and dutch law. That is different to english culture and english. As for examples of bad behaviour on a football field that would have been construed as assault or some other charge in the street, I'll give you 3 but we could be on all day delving further than that. Stephen Hunt deliberately kicked Petr Cech in the head and caused a fractured skull. I don't care what he claims, he tried to hurt Cech intentionally. Alan Shearer deliberately kicked Neil Lennon in the head because the bloke was a tit. Danny Guthrie deliberately kicked Craig ***an out of frustration and broke his leg as a result. If that had happened in the street, he'd have faced charges.

How can you use the logic that Holland's views on racism are so different to ours, yet site the fact that friends of yours have been to Brazil and Argentina, not Uruguay, as reasoning behind your argument that the words he used are construed as racist in South America?
By your reasoning, despite being in the same continent, Uruguay is a different country to Brazil and Argentina, and therefore it's irrelevent.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

There are guidelines though - all companies, football clubs included, are responsible for having an equality & diversity policy, and are also responsible for making sure their employees are aware of it and suitably trained. So if they've failed this, I don't think the ban is excessive. If anything, it could have been longer to show clubs they have to take a serious stance on it to kick racism out of football. I think Terry should have a ban of the same length.

I think they have failed. But I also think we're not pushing the education angle hard enough. We're still living in the past where coaches and clubs think "the lads will teach him our ways". Do you honestly think anyone sits down with players when they sign and says "right you'll find some differences here between your own country and ours" Of course they don't, no club in the land does. They just, quite understandably, can't wait to see their new signing playing out of his skin. But this case highlights that attitude is not good enough anymore.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

How can you use the logic that Holland's views on racism are so different to ours, yet site the fact that friends of yours have been to Brazil and Argentina, not Uruguay, as reasoning behind your argument that the words he used are construed as racist in South America?
By your reasoning, despite being in the same continent, Uruguay is a different country to Brazil and Argentina, and therefore it's irrelevent.

Eh? I am aware that Brazil and Argentina have very different views on what is racist because I have friends who have been there and experienced it first hand. I am aware that it is the same in Uruguay but have not been there or had friends who have been there. But I am well read enough to know they don't have the same laws as us.

I've also been to Holland enough times, and have enough knowledge of the country to know that they have different views to us on racism, like most other countries in Europe. I don't think people in this country realise that our ways are not the norm, however much we'd like them to be.

 

[Alfie]

I think they have failed. But I also think we're not pushing the education angle hard enough. We're still living in the past where coaches and clubs think "the lads will teach him our ways". Do you honestly think anyone sits down with players when they sign and says "right you'll find some differences here between your own country and ours" Of course they don't, no club in the land does. They just, quite understandably, can't wait to see their new signing playing out of his skin. But this case highlights that attitude is not good enough anymore.

Well perhaps they would if they knew if the player was found to be racially abusing another player they would be banned for a season then they would. Probably more likely to than if it's only an 8 game ban.

 

[Chappaz]

If this 'cultural difference' argument has any merit, then I ask, why has no other foreign player (especially from Uruguay) ever had the same problem? Furthermore, why has it taken almost a full year in English football for Suarez to ever utter such a phrase to someone? Surely, if he thought there was nothing wrong with the phrase, he would have used it without much thought well before now?

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

I know that it's prevalent in certain countries (Spain is particularly bad though), I thought Holland was above that though? A lot of players of all races play for the Dutch clubs...

Holland is closer to us than many others. Certainly when you consider places like Russia and Serbia. It really doesn't matter how many players of different races play there though. Uruguay, Brazil, and other countires have many different people of different backgrounds playing in their league. Indeed Uruguay fought for the right for black players to participate in world cups, despite opposition from elsewhere. Think AG has posted a good link which details some of the differences, historical points of interest.

The point is these countries all have a different view to us on what is racist and what is not.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

If this 'cultural difference' argument has any merit, then I ask, why has no other foreign player (especially from Uruguay) ever had the same problem? Furthermore, why has it taken almost a full year in English football for Suarez to ever utter such a phrase to someone? Surely, if he thought there was nothing wrong with the phrase, he would have used it without much thought well before now?

Naive in the extreme here Chappaz. If you think these phrases have not been used on these shores before on the field of play, you're mad as a *****ose. The difference is that Evra has made a complaint.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Well perhaps they would if they knew if the player was found to be racially abusing another player they would be banned for a season then they would. Probably more likely to than if it's only an 8 game ban.

No as noted noted earlier you'll likely just deepen the divide. And regardless that is an ignorant approach to take when we can do so much more to help the situation.

 

[Chappaz]

Naive in the extreme here Chappaz. If you think these phrases have not been used on these shores before on the field of play, you're mad as a *****ose. The difference is that Evra has made a complaint.

So you think it's possible that Suarez has been using these phrases all along, which he apparently believes are absolutely fine, but only now (after almost a full year) a player has decided to make a complaint?

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

So you think it's possible that Suarez has been using these phrases all along, which he apparently believes are absolutely fine, but only now (after almost a full year) a player has decided to make a complaint?

I wouldn't imagien he runs around every game calling people black so and so's. But I know for a fact that these kinds of phrases are uttered on a football field. I've been to enough games and played enough football myself to understand that. Look at the Terry situation. Now I don't know the full facts but it seems to me Anton Ferdinand wanted to sweep it originally until someone had a word. We have a culture in this country on non reporting when it comes to racism. Its like the construction industry. If you look at figures for "near misses" across construction companies they are really really low. But I know for a fact they happen every day of the year.

 

[Chappaz]

I wouldn't imagien he runs around every game calling people black so and so's. But I know for a fact that these kinds of phrases are uttered on a football field. I've been to enough games and played enough football myself to understand that.

Ahh I didn't know you were a Premier League footballer.

Look at the Terry situation. Now I don't know the full facts but it seems to me Anton Ferdinand wanted to sweep it originally until someone had a word. We have a culture in this country on non reporting when it comes to racism.

So, because Ferdinand wanted to sweep it under the carpet, it means every other 'coloured' person does as well?

Its like the construction industry. If you look at figures for "near misses" across construction companies they are really really low. But I know for a fact they happen every day of the year.

Yeah, because that's the same thing.

It seems to me that you're SO resistant to a politically correct world, you wish to argue every point just to avoid the possibility that Suarez was simply being racist on purpose. Yes, he's made his excuses, but as this is a man who:

A). Bit another footballer whilst playing for Ajax
B). Intentionally swatted away a goal-bound shot with his hand in the World Cup
C). Is renowned for diving and cheating

We can safely assume that he may not be entirely morally sound, and may be prone to the odd lie to cover his arse.

 

[Samuel L Ameobi]

While I dont really know if guilty or not, and putting Suarez's obvious faults to one side (diving etc.) am I the only one whos gonna miss seeing him on the pitch? Apart from against us of course. I genuinely think that if he cleaned up his act people would be lauding him as a footballing magician. I personally rate him as technically the most complete forward in the Prem, he can do literally everything in the final third, and his passes are unreal. However, I do think his antics are that of a complete twatbag, which overshadows his footballing greatness unfortunately.

 

[Cal.]

His lawyer says that he's appealing the ban.